Diablo® III

The Unanswered Question

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Posts: 1,736
Repair Costs
One of the more controversial changes in 1.0.3 is the increased repair costs. The design intent of these increased repair costs is to make death more meaningful. One of the top arguments we see against the increased repair costs is "I'm already dying dozens of times to make any progress in Inferno. Don't you see this is going to make this impossible?" This concern is most often brought up by ranged glass cannons. Many melee players respond "increased repair costs seem fine" because they haven't been using death-zerging as a tactic. Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.


I play a DH and I am in Nightmare mode to get to the point I die a lot I m not a super player and to me this feels like your punishing a class that the mechanics are different. If this goes through I will be forced to stop playing because all the enjoyment of this game will collapse and I will quiit, and yeah I know my voice don't count because if I quit you don't care..


Stop making your toon a glass cannon and you won't die so much.
Posts: 436
These changes seem to me like they will do a great job, along with the loot table changes, in making the game overall better for everyone.

Just be mindful of not making Inferno "Teddy Bear Fluff Factory". Some of us LIKE dying sometimes.
Posts: 785
06/06/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Adamant
"tl:dr; Why do ranged do more damage than melee, when melee have much less uptime and much more risk?


They don't unless you are talking exclusively about the demon hunter.

Oh, why are squishy wizards constantly jerked into melee range by vortex or teleported on top of by hulking phasebeasts or run down by super-duper fast monsters?

Being ranged is of a DISADVANTAGE in D3, not an advantage. There is no merc that draws aggro to help the poor solo wizard survive. A wizard has to have massive investment in vitality and typical only has a couple of attack spells with all other skills devoted to passive or active defense.


As far as repair costs, for delicate classes there are UNAVOIDABLE deaths. Jailer+desecrate and teleport+firechain are some examples. There is NOTHING player skill wise you can do to avoid these which is already super frustrating. But making that frustrating, unavoidable death cost 5x as much will just add more frustration.


Yep. There ae LOTS of "anti-range" monsters. Too many.
Edited by GrumpyOldWiz#1874 on 6/7/2012 4:50 PM PDT
Really happy blue posted a clear and thought-out response.
90 Draenei Paladin
16050
Posts: 453
Good to know these issues are being addressed.

I understand the reasoning behind the repair cost increase, but... *sigh* guess I'm going to have to plead with the RNG gods to give me some stuff that'll actually sell on the AH. This poor (financially speaking) demon hunter who actually already stacks some survivability is going to be a lot poorer. Thank you latency.
Edited by Enaria#1576 on 6/7/2012 4:50 PM PDT
If you are dying in nightmare put your player progression on hold, stop having fun and grind some gear as the above posters have said.
Wow a real response to a real question, kudos indeed.
Posts: 1,135
06/06/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Adamant
"tl:dr; Why do ranged do more damage than melee, when melee have much less uptime and much more risk?

I wasn't aware ranged classes could do 1.5 million damage a hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLBTE-6JakI&t=0m25s
Edited by Zeth#1584 on 6/7/2012 4:54 PM PDT
06/07/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Lylirra
if a Sand Wasp runs away from you, and you start chasing the wasp, it doesn't turn and shoot 4 bees in your face


Thank you.
i personally love my wizard class. i play ranged and my friends play melee...however reading this thread is the first time i've heard of a "death zerging" tactic.

I TRY NOT to die in inferno. ranged are glassy because they have to be to deal damage and sometimes as ranged, i come across some pretty retarded affixes where i'm either A. forced to kite and do as much damage as i can before i bite the bullet 6 or 7 times, or B. restart the zone and hope i get a better affix.

I think the increased repair costs will hurt everyone. not all ranged have the "damage it till its dead" strategy, i hate dying. especially over, and over, and over, and over again, but sometimes in inferno that happens. and increased repair costs will hurt that more.
Well... that's amazing. I'm really looking forward for 103.

You did some mistakes, acknowledged them and went ahead to fix them.

Kudos Blizzard, don't let the QQ demoralize you, they just don't know how to react. You guys are doing a fine job.


But, but, but... what if the trolls learn to not only demoralize, but also use jailer and arcane enchanted... how could they overcome?
Sounds like you have decided to punish ranged, while making some small improvements for melee in the gameplay. Is it time to "pay back" for the ranged now?

Roll melee or gtfo? lol.
Y'know...I had a lot of valid points to make on this subject, but they're all going to be buried with hateful rants and insults. So, just pretend I said something intelligent and the average forum user responded with a flood of the usual dim-witted anti-logic, and we'll move on.

Seriously...favoritism in game design, based on generalizations and assumptions about playstyle...wow. I've seen it all, now. I guess I don't actually have the defensive stats I've been building into my ranged characters since the start of this game.

Wow.
Edited by BlessedWrath#1585 on 6/7/2012 4:58 PM PDT
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Sand wasp ai changes, yes please. i'm so tired of mobs that do nothing but run away. Also, the damage changes for coop are very welcome. I understood the concept of each player adding 100% damage, cause it was an additional target for mobs. but in a realistic world, as you say, ranged aren't targets, they aren't near the mobs, so it's just extra damage frontloaded onto melee. 400+% damage is ok if it's SHARED by 4 players, then it's working as intended. 400% damage on a single melee who hapepns to be in a group with 3 ranged, is not. no normal person is going ot pull that off without just vastly outgearing the content. But you shouldn't need act 4 gear to survive act 1 coop as a melee. It's a very good design change, as the current one only works if your game is like 4 melee all s haring damage, or 4 ranged all avoiding it. Any middle ground means melee eating the damage that ranged are not and getting owned.

I wish 1.0.3 would ship tomorrow! I miss playing with other players on my barb.
90 Draenei Paladin
16050
Posts: 453
Well... that's amazing. I'm really looking forward for 103.

You did some mistakes, acknowledged them and went ahead to fix them.

Kudos Blizzard, don't let the QQ demoralize you, they just don't know how to react. You guys are doing a fine job.


But, but, but... what if the trolls learn to not only demoralize, but also use jailer and arcane enchanted... how could they overcome?

No, no. Mortar/waller/fast/jailer or shielding/invulnerable minion/waller/fast.
85 Human Death Knight
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Posts: 2,690

Being ranged is of a DISADVANTAGE in D3, not an advantage. There is no merc that draws aggro to help the poor solo wizard survive. A wizard has to have massive investment in vitality and typical only has a couple of attack spells with all other skills devoted to passive or active defense.


Oh you mean just like melee have to do all the time especially in groups?
06/07/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Lylirra
I actually spent some extra time the other day to make sure if a Sand Wasp runs away from you, and you start chasing the wasp, it doesn't turn and shoot 4 bees in your face (hopefully that makes 1.0.3).


OMG I LOVE YOU MAN!!!! lol
Posts: 388
Just want to say thank you. That was my question I asked, and I took my time writing it ever since you announced the AMAA. I'm not sure how those work with Reddit, and I thought at one point my question was lost to the ether, but I went back to see if it got answered and it didn't, but had a lot of up votes.

I'm concerned the most about the repair cost issue, because I do think melee suffer far more "meaningless" deaths than ranged do, and this may have the effect of making melee suffer just as much as ranged. I can't tell you how many times I've died because I *thought* I wasn't in hit range, but that swing and a miss with the swift skull cleaver actually one shotted me.

But I am glad to see you acknowledge the gap exists. Thanks for commenting.
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