Diablo® III

The Unanswered Question

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Unless Blizz wants to help gold farmers, increase repair costs is just wrong for both melee and ranged. Mobs in inferno full their hp bar after 10 seconds or so, so unless they are close, but not too close (or you'll die right after spawning), to the respawn point, you can chain die and kill them. You have just "1" try consisting in 4 deaths, then ressing will just take too much time.
We are talking about a specific setup of class (ranged), "elites" (the hard but killable ones) and area (open space, where you can kite)... and Blizz increase repair costs by 4-6x for that?

About mortar... you want to increase its range? Ok, give it the same range as a DH, but please give us a zoom out option, so we can see what's happening.
It's silly that you can kill and get killed without seeing your enemy.

I'm not a melee expert, but I saw vids about monks killing Diablo and any other inferno encounter by just using Blade Storm and Fists of Thunder (+heals when needed) way faster than any ranged will ever be able (inferno Diablo in 4 minutes or so, counting cutscenes).
Are "non godly" geared melee so much worse?
i am a wizard, and i notice the difference of survivability is insanely high for a melee class compared to a wizard, witch doctor, or demon hunter. Mortar mobs blow me up all the time, they move so often that its hard to always dodge their attacks. I understand that you are frustrated, but do your friends have more gear than you, maybe this is why their dps is higher. I dont know, but my friend plays a monk and he lives alot longer and can do pretty high dps, i honestly dont see the problem here.
06/09/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Fellupahill
i am a wizard, and i notice the difference of survivability is insanely high for a melee class compared to a wizard, witch doctor, or demon hunter. Mortar mobs blow me up all the time, they move so often that its hard to always dodge their attacks. I understand that you are frustrated, but do your friends have more gear than you, maybe this is why their dps is higher. I dont know, but my friend plays a monk and he lives alot longer and can do pretty high dps, i honestly dont see the problem here.


monk dps compared to similar quality of gear barbarians is almost ridiculously skewed towards monks. monks and barbs both compared to any ranged, sans maybe witch doctors, are pretty terrible on the damage front. i have 12200 dps on my barb with almost complete act2-3 quality gear, and a neck that makes up about 3000 of it. sure, i can take a few hits, and i do stress FEW(soul rippers and swift skull cleavers, looking at you here), but, i do less than a quarter of the damage of my fresh level 60 wizard, in pretty terrible quality gear.

I'm not a melee expert, but I saw vids about monks killing Diablo and any other inferno encounter by just using Blade Storm and Fists of Thunder (+heals when needed) way faster than any ranged will ever be able (inferno Diablo in 4 minutes or so, counting cutscenes).
Are "non godly" geared melee so much worse?


Yea seriously you need to do some research before you post next time, as much as I hate using his name, because personally I don't care for him (at all), I think Athene has most of the records for Inferno kill times, and he's a ranged.

Honestly its a good response but I don't see how any part of what was said will actually decrease the dps disparity between melee and ranged, more like just reduce some of the pre-existing advantages for ranged to even the playing field, but none of that will have any direct effect on dps will it?
Edited by Slipstream#1323 on 6/9/2012 5:29 PM PDT
Posts: 704
I think nerfing IAS on gear will hurt ranged a lot more than melee.
Posts: 785


Honestly its a good response but I don't see how any part of what was said will actually decrease the dps disparity between melee and ranged, more like just reduce some of the pre-existing advantages for ranged to even the playing field, but none of that will have any direct effect on dps will it?


Why exactly should melee have tons more survivability than a wizard and yet have the same DPS? I've seen plenty of videos with barbarians and monks owning inferno, by the way.

Oh, barbs and monk get a free built in 30% damage reduction. Pretty sweet. And can heal as they fight. Sweet.
Edited by GrumpyOldWiz#1874 on 6/9/2012 5:33 PM PDT
There are some ranged players who are already doing this -- stacking survivability so they don’t have to endlessly kite -- and it just feels like the minimum amount of survivability to avoid the 1-shot is so large it's unattainable. That's one of the things 1.0.3 seeks to address.


That really makes zero sense. Why would survival be more appealing if its less necessary?

Reread the quoted text from the dev.

The current issue is that while we'd like to not get 1-shot by every white mob from act 2 on, we just loose waaaay too much DPS to accomplish that and then we can take a whole 2 hits from white mobs and champs still 1-shot us.

The problem is that there is a giant mountain of EHP to climb just to get to the point where you can take exactly 1 hit without dying. Climbing that mountain requires you to either spend 10x on the gear or sacrifice 25% of your DPS (arbitrary numbers) so it's simply not worth it. Climbing up to taking 2 shots without dying leaves us with DPS on par with tanky barbs and monks but a lot less time to be using that DPS.

It's universally more efficient right now to just go full glass cannon. If we could build a little EHP into our gear and take an extra hit or two then we'd do that at the expense of some DPS but we're not going to do it for 0 extra survivability or most of our DPS.
Edited by brinebold#1864 on 6/9/2012 5:45 PM PDT
I went through the entire transcript of the reddit dev conversation, and while there were a great many great questions posed and answered, and glib comments made, there was one question that a great deal of the community would love answered.

"tl:dr; Why do ranged do more damage than melee, when melee have much less uptime and much more risk?


The dps stat on your character sheet is pretty useless overall and people put far too much weight into it. In fact it doesn't even account for the skills you're using. Switch to all defensive cooldowns (and nothing that passively increases damage) and you'll see that your "dps" doesn't change.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that if you are kiting you aren't dpsing 100% of the time. Now I do realize that melee has to kite occasionally as well but it's far more rare. If I've only got 25% up time with an indicated 40k dps then I'm only capable of putting out 10k dps... that's if the dps stat wasn't useless anyway... if ANY elite pack is the first thing I see after zoning it's all but guaranteed failure because I can't kite it.

Only Blizzard has the tools to see what's actually going on in game though I have serious doubts as to how well they'd interpret the data but if it takes me and you the same amount of time to kill a mob then we're doing the same dps regardless of what the character sheet shows. I might just have to do some testing with a friend's barb but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it takes me longer to kill elites because I have to kite them all over the map, despite my "dps".
^ agreed and these barbs need to see whats its like getting one shoted from Act 2 up
06/06/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Adamant
Why does melee have to "earn" it's chosen offensive play style, whereas ranged has that option from the start?


Well ranged never has a defensive play style even after getting gear so consider yourself lucky that you can do both.
Make mortar more OP?! What?! It's already a HUGE hassle having to dodge mortar!! How could they possibly think of making the damage zone LARGER? It'll be IMPOSSIBLE for ranged, seeing that it already does 1/2 health damage! Ridiculous decision!!
To all those who agree on repair cost, please play a range class especially, WD to lv 60. Go to inferno, and meet with elite mobs with affix "jailer, vortex, invulnerable minions, reflect dmg" Tell me how you can kill/run from them without dying?

Edit: B4 you guys start saying: "great job", "good job".. Think again, are we going to leave game and restart quest and hopefully don't meet these "overpowered" elites? And in the mean time increasing workload of the already lousy, "always overload" server? Increasing latency lags for people playing outside US? Think dudes, think.
Edited by David#6542 on 6/9/2012 7:10 PM PDT
People need to stop thinking affixes are designed to make everything harder for melee because they are just as much a problem for ranged as well. Melee don't suffer as much from vortex, teleport, fast, or even in a lot of cases reflect dmg (DH have it the worst for this). So stop thinking ranged have it easy, we can't kite as much in inferno or at all in a lot of affix combos, we have it just as bad.
This guys post describes my feelings entirely.

As for the affixes affecting ranged just as much that's bull. Try fighting multiple monsters when they constantly try to reposition themselves to surround you. Fire chains, molten,puddles on top of jailer or vortex is so bad. My buddy DH can continuously kite dps doing 5x more dmg btw only worrying about mortar. If he gets vortex occasionally he has a short CD cloak of shadows. Melee has similar immunity shields but they can't be saved for such instances
Edited by VELOCITY#1194 on 6/9/2012 7:45 PM PDT
"Death zerging" does he really think we're trying to death zerg as ranged? i want to kill the damn mob but since the affix combos make it only death zergable for us we have no choice. Increasing repair costs will just make it hurt us even more than it already does, we already have to repair roughly 3 times more often than melee.
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