Diablo® III

The Unanswered Question

(Locked)

06/07/2012 04:57 PMPosted by MysticalOS
I wish 1.0.3 would ship tomorrow!
Repair Costs
One of the more controversial changes in 1.0.3 is the increased repair costs. The design intent of these increased repair costs is to make death more meaningful. One of the top arguments we see against the increased repair costs is "I'm already dying dozens of times to make any progress in Inferno. Don't you see this is going to make this impossible?" This concern is most often brought up by ranged glass cannons. Many melee players respond "increased repair costs seem fine" because they haven't been using death-zerging as a tactic. Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.


I play a DH and I am in Nightmare mode to get to the point I die a lot I m not a super player and to me this feels like your punishing a class that the mechanics are different. If this goes through I will be forced to stop playing because all the enjoyment of this game will collapse and I will quiit, and yeah I know my voice don't count because if I quit you don't care..


Really dude, Nightmare? Also if you read, the repair cost increase is only for High level items.
My gish approves of this.
06/07/2012 04:43 PMPosted by DirkGently
So instead of paying 7k in gold for repairs, I am going to pay 28k in gold? So, 28k times 5 characters is 140k in gold if all of my characters dies one (never repairing between deaths) -OR- if I die 5 times during a game (again, never repairing between deaths). Right now I have barely 150k gold. I don't use the auction house and I can kinda get by as it is but things like gem upgrades are pushing what I am able to spend. It can take me an hour to farm 100k gold. That is if I am lucky enough to not run into elite groups that will pound me (DH) into the ground. How is this a more effective anything, than draining our bank accounts and having us beg for gold?
The idea is to get you to die less by encouraging players, especially ranged players, to use a mix of survivability+DPS, not just DPS.
I just wanted to say that...

Wyatt Cheng has one of the best damn jobs in the world.
OK so I normally don't voice opions on these types of things because frankly, if it goes against what you feel you don't listen, however I have to adress this issue. I have played MMORPG's for over 14 years, and I've played quit a few. I was also there for the original diablo, diablo 2 and lord of destruction expansion. This is my opinion on why this issue should be adressed CARFULLY.

1) Ranged does more damage and can just die, respwan, and finish killing adds......
This is total BS statement. I for one am in inferno, and frankly mobs return to FULL HEALTH if you die....that's right FULL HEALTH
2) I don't do as much damage as ranged.....
Of course you don't. Your a "Meat Shield" and anyone playing a melee class doesn't think they are there to take a hit while others DPS mobs, has obviously never played any mmorpg to end content.
3) Ranged can take out a mob in 3 seconds whereas it takes me 30 seconds
That's true in some cases, but think of this.....WE CAN'T GET HIT PERIOD. White mobs in inferno will 1 shot us. "Only if their glass build" That's not true. I have a wizard and I use Arcane blast, blizzard, diamond skin, energy armor, and hydra....I am speced for as good a tank spec as a "ranged" class can be. I STILL GET 1 SHOTTED. Even with 58% resistance to everything, 22k hp, and over 2k armor (BTW resistance and gear and armor is hard to find with int. Maybe add it?). And even when playing co-ops with a melee class, we pull agro and die anyways (Tank agro needs to be fixed). SO even with our "Meat Shield" we still die an insane amount of times. Bigger repairs are not the answer, because quit frankly, I try everything I can not to die, and a 25k repair bill to take out two white mobs, when I have over 41k DPS with my buff is utter bull because I died to many times. I have to farm Azmodian on hell to make any of my money back, and even there he can 1 shot me, if it crits. I do not think it needs to be fixed. And frankly if you made a melee tank class, and are complaining about not dpsing, obviously you have no idea what a melee class job actually is. All games are about end content, and frankly if you nerf our damage while upping melee's It will be the end of Diablo 3. I guarantee it. I have rolled a caster class wether it be healer or mage for every mmorpg, and frankly, this game is pretty well balanced in my opinion for favoring melee. DH might be a little op but (shrug) that class always is in mmorpg's too. Deal with it. Re-roll caster if you have such a problem (Then you will see you are no better off, in fact might be worse off). Melee class is a meat shield plain and simple. Now if they add to your dps withot nerfing us fine, But frankly when you get to inferno it's simply kite kite kite and pray you don't die for every class, and I don't see that changing unless you have like 100 million gold to buy the ridiculouslly priced gear.
Edited by FireKrystals#1381 on 6/7/2012 5:14 PM PDT
Wyatt Cheng +1 to you.
06/07/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Cordoba
The idea is to get you to die less by encouraging players, especially ranged players, to use a mix of survivability+DPS, not just DPS.


Try reading the wizard forums and see just what they do. And it is not what you are saying they do.
Great response Blizz!!

This game is only for "Diabloholics" you whiners should QUIT the game as you said it. If we can play the game, can you not?

Suggestions:
Blizz, maybe for the 103 patch, you guys should add another mode 'The Phoney For The Whiney'.
06/07/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Cordoba
So instead of paying 7k in gold for repairs, I am going to pay 28k in gold? So, 28k times 5 characters is 140k in gold if all of my characters dies one (never repairing between deaths) -OR- if I die 5 times during a game (again, never repairing between deaths). Right now I have barely 150k gold. I don't use the auction house and I can kinda get by as it is but things like gem upgrades are pushing what I am able to spend. It can take me an hour to farm 100k gold. That is if I am lucky enough to not run into elite groups that will pound me (DH) into the ground. How is this a more effective anything, than draining our bank accounts and having us beg for gold?
The idea is to get you to die less by encouraging players, especially ranged players, to use a mix of survivability+DPS, not just DPS.


I have 31k health, I can get 1-shot by literally anything in act 2. I am fairly good at kiting, however this mostly requires space to do it in and in games that I play (co-op), also require people to not be as good as they currently are at dying constantly or not working as a team to take down mobs. End result is me dead over and over again and a pretty high repair bill.

In addition to that, the feasibility of trying to run multiple higher level characters isn't practical due to high cost attached to them. So lets say I die 50 times in a 4 hour period. That means I need to farm at least 1 hour for every 4 hours I play trying to progress through the game at my own pace. I have no problems with loot hunting, however doing that means my quest progression is reset if I chose (which I will) to farm a lower act because it is a much easier farming experience, especially for gold.
06/07/2012 04:42 PMPosted by Nova
As far as repair costs, for delicate classes there are UNAVOIDABLE deaths. Jailer+desecrate and teleport+firechain are some examples. There is NOTHING player skill wise you can do to avoid these which is already super frustrating. But making that frustrating, unavoidable death cost 5x as much will just add more frustration.


That IS true, but you have to remember, your gear doesn't break on the first death. You could die five or six times before your gear actually breaks. THEN the heavy price would be paid. But you'd have a die a few times before it gets to that.
I'm really looking forward to 1.0.3.
OK so I normally don't voice opions on these types of things because frankly, if it goes against what you feel you don't listen, however I have to adress this issue. I have played MMORPG's for over 14 years, and I've played quit a few. I was also there for the original diablo, diablo 2 and lord of destruction expansion. This is my opinion on why this issue should be adressed CARFULLY.

1) Ranged does more damage and can just die, respwan, and finish killing adds......
This is total BS statement. I for one am in inferno, and frankly mobs return to FULL HEALTH if you die....that's right FULL HEALTH
2) I don't do as much damage as ranged.....
Of course you don't. Your a "Meat Shield" and anyone playing a melee class doesn't think they are there to take a hit while others DPS mobs, has obviously never played any mmorpg to end content.
3) Ranged can take out a mob in 3 seconds whereas it takes me 30 seconds
That's true in some cases, but think of this.....WE CAN'T GET HIT PERIOD. White mobs in inferno will 1 shot us. "Only if their glass build" That's not true. I have a wizard and I use Arcane blast, blizzard, diamond skin, energy armor, and hydra....I am speced for as good a tank spec as a "ranged" class can be. I STILL GET 1 SHOTTED. Even with 58% resistance to everything, 22k hp, and over 2k armor (BTW resistance and gear and armor is hard to find with int. Maybe add it?). And even when playing co-ops with a melee class, we pull agro and die anyways (Tank agro needs to be fixed). SO even with our "Meat Shield" we still die an insane amount of times. Bigger repairs are not the answer, because quit frankly, I try everything I can not to die, and a 25k repair bill to take out two white mobs, when I have over 41k DPS with my buff is utter bull because I died to many times. I have to farm Azmodian on hell to make any of my money back, and even there he can 1 shot me, if it crits. I do not think it needs to be fixed. And frankly if you made a melee tank class, and are complaining about not dpsing, obviously you have no idea what a melee class job actually is. All games are about end content, and frankly if you nerf our damage while upping melee's It will be the end of Diablo 3. I guarantee it. I have rolled a caster class wether it be healer or mage for every mmorpg, and frankly, this game is pretty well balanced in my opinion for favoring melee. DH might be a little op but (shrug) that class always is in mmorpg's too. Deal with it. Re-roll caster if you have such a problem. Melee class is a meat shield plain and simple. Now if they add to your dps withot nerfing us fine, But frankly when you get to inferno it's simply kite kite kite and pray you don't die for every class, and I don't see that changing unless you have like 100 million gold to buy the ridiculouslly priced gear.


Sorry to disagree but most Barbs can only get hit twice and then death. We have a very small percentage of the damage that you do as a ranged and have to get into melee to hit anything. There is a disparity, mobs come back at full health for everyone and when we can only do 15k dps and those mobs have 1 million health and they com back at full health when we die after two hits do you think that is fair? All of your abilities are ranged damage melee are not you can kite we really cannot, Ranged have it a lot better over melee.
This all sounds fantastic, and I want to thank Wyatt for being awesome, and taking the time to talk to the community, and being respectful to the community as well =)

(Take notes Jay.)
Edited by Velexia#1926 on 6/7/2012 5:16 PM PDT
06/07/2012 05:08 PMPosted by FireKrystals
OK so I normally don't voice opions on these types of things because frankly, if it goes against what you feel you don't listen, however I have to adress this issue. I have played MMORPG's for over 14 years, and I've played quit a few. I was also there for the original diablo, diablo 2 and lord of destruction expansion. This is my opinion on why this issue should be adressed CARFULLY.
You do understand that Diablo is a single player game for most players outside of item trading/buying/selling, right? The melee classes are not designed to be MMO tanks, even though they can fulfill a similar role in groups.
I STILL GET 1 SHOTTED. Even with 58% resistance to everything, 22k hp, and over 2k armor (BTW resistance and gear and armor is hard to find with int. Maybe add it?)

Well there's your problem. My WD is pushing 40k hp and I'm not even level 60
OK so I normally don't voice opions on these types of things because frankly, if it goes against what you feel you don't listen, however I have to adress this issue. I have played MMORPG's for over 14 years, and I've played quit a few. I was also there for the original diablo, diablo 2 and lord of destruction expansion. This is my opinion on why this issue should be adressed CARFULLY.

1) Ranged does more damage and can just die, respwan, and finish killing adds......
This is total BS statement. I for one am in inferno, and frankly mobs return to FULL HEALTH if you die....that's right FULL HEALTH
2) I don't do as much damage as ranged.....
Of course you don't. Your a "Meat Shield" and anyone playing a melee class doesn't think they are there to take a hit while others DPS mobs, has obviously never played any mmorpg to end content.
3) Ranged can take out a mob in 3 seconds whereas it takes me 30 seconds
That's true in some cases, but think of this.....WE CAN'T GET HIT PERIOD. White mobs in inferno will 1 shot us. "Only if their glass build" That's not true. I have a wizard and I use Arcane blast, blizzard, diamond skin, energy armor, and hydra....I am speced for as good a tank spec as a "ranged" class can be. I STILL GET 1 SHOTTED. Even with 58% resistance to everything, 22k hp, and over 2k armor (BTW resistance and gear and armor is hard to find with int. Maybe add it?). And even when playing co-ops with a melee class, we pull agro and die anyways (Tank agro needs to be fixed). SO even with our "Meat Shield" we still die an insane amount of times. Bigger repairs are not the answer, because quit frankly, I try everything I can not to die, and a 25k repair bill to take out two white mobs, when I have over 41k DPS with my buff is utter bull because I died to many times. I have to farm Azmodian on hell to make any of my money back, and even there he can 1 shot me, if it crits. I do not think it needs to be fixed. And frankly if you made a melee tank class, and are complaining about not dpsing, obviously you have no idea what a melee class job actually is. All games are about end content, and frankly if you nerf our damage while upping melee's It will be the end of Diablo 3. I guarantee it. I have rolled a caster class wether it be healer or mage for every mmorpg, and frankly, this game is pretty well balanced in my opinion for favoring melee. DH might be a little op but (shrug) that class always is in mmorpg's too. Deal with it. Re-roll caster if you have such a problem (Then you will see you are no better off, in fact might be worse off). Melee class is a meat shield plain and simple. Now if they add to your dps withot nerfing us fine, But frankly when you get to inferno it's simply kite kite kite and pray you don't die for every class, and I don't see that changing unless you have like 100 million gold to buy the ridiculouslly priced gear.


Please, just uninstall and go back to wow. This is not an mmorpg, it is a dungeon crawler, with a 4 player per game limit. Notice there is no such thing as directed heals, because the game was not designed to be played that way. GTFO.
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