Diablo® III

The Unanswered Question

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06/07/2012 04:34 PMPosted by Reboot
Nightmare mode .... I die a lot


I didn't know it was possible to die in Nightmare mode.

06/07/2012 04:33 PMPosted by Opellia
If this goes through I will be forced to stop playing because all the enjoyment of this game will collapse and I will quiit, and yeah I know my voice don't count because if I quit you don't care..


and nothing of value was lost. It will really suck losing a player that dies in nightmare.


You can die in NM mode if you are dragging two anchor players like the guy above with you that run the first site of a yellow or blue guy. :)
Repair Costs
One of the more controversial changes in 1.0.3 is the increased repair costs. The design intent of these increased repair costs is to make death more meaningful. One of the top arguments we see against the increased repair costs is "I'm already dying dozens of times to make any progress in Inferno. Don't you see this is going to make this impossible?" This concern is most often brought up by ranged glass cannons. Many melee players respond "increased repair costs seem fine" because they haven't been using death-zerging as a tactic. Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.


I'm having a little problem with this as it stands. I consider myself a relatively skilled player, and I avoid zerg-rushing / face-smashing my enemies as often as possible. It's not enjoyable to have to continually run back / kite a mob to my spawn point so I can keep smashing my face against them.

But as a Witch Doctor, there are just some things that I CANNOT avoid. Such as being walled off by an elite pack, then mortar-bombed or frozen forever. Other things such as Illusion + Reflect Damage kick my !@# too, and no matter what I do, I will die several times to a mob before I either decide to skip it or restart because it's just too frustrating.

Another problem is that I'm not pulling off the easy 100k damage (I know this is over exaggerating) that a DH or a Wiz can, nor do I have the amazingly tanky stats of a Barb or Monk. With complete buffs on (Pierce the Veil, maxed Soul Harvest stacks, AND Big Bad Voodoo, Slam Dance) I can only top off at about 44k DPS. Inferno is kicking my $%^ here and there, and the fact that I'm going to have to farm to repair my gear in order to farm again seems a bit outrageous. I don't see how this is going to bring balance to the classes, as deaths resulting in unavoidable deaths or impossible mobs are going to happen to everyone anyway. The only difference will be that we're going to be spending more money repairing.

But that's just my two-cents.
The reason is
A deamon hunter gets dropped from 2 auto attacks while a barb gets dropped in about 10
I have a monk and deamon hunter in inferno and my monk takes 10 times the hits my deamon hunter does
and also my monk does more damage than my deamon hunter
One thing is absolutely certain. Scaling EvP damage sure has to be one of the stupidest idea ever committed by designers of a would-be cooperative game. It doesn't need mitigation, it needs eradication.
This is what they SAY will happen. What, in actuality, will happen, is that instead of buffing Melee, they will just nerf ranged, so that no one is able to progress anymore, as they had intended it to begin with. Lol.

I'm still going to remain a glass cannon and shun survivability in favor of DPS, because that is still the end-all, be-all of this game.
Blizz, why also nerf IAS when its one of the most beneficial stats for melee LoH builds. It essentially helps melee classes the most, ranged aside.
Edited by Zane#6376 on 6/9/2012 11:14 PM PDT
I play a DH and I am in Nightmare mode to get to the point I die a lot I m not a super player and to me this feels like your punishing a class that the mechanics are different. If this goes through I will be forced to stop playing because all the enjoyment of this game will collapse and I will quiit, and yeah I know my voice don't count because if I quit you don't care..


I suggest you try and use AH to get better equipment, you shouldn't be having too hard a time in Nightmare then.
Makes it sound as ranged are having easy time in inferno. Keep going buddy, lets see how many players there will be left within few months.
Actually i was thinking this way about the new "nerf"

Why not
1) decrease mob damage by %
2) retain melee defense as the same
3) decrease rng jobs defense by %
4) Keep WD the same

In most games i play, rng/wizard jobs is mostly either dodge or die, thats kinda universal, i might be wrong but hey its a way to keep the game balance i guess.

And increase of repair bills is just lame when u increase mortar range, cos ur going to shift people from playing rng job to DD job which would end up having rng jobs complaining end day. So its not a solve all issue anyway. I do agree that most DDs cant survive in inferno and instead of nerfing, they should just increase their attributes, which makes sense anyway. Or bring back the old system of stats distribution, so DDs can just customize their stats and make sure they can survive in inferno, its a win win situation lol

Oh yea and why reduce mobs HP and DF, it just doesnt make much sense to me at all, maybe someone can explain this?
Edited by Silverstar#1877 on 6/10/2012 2:19 AM PDT
This game is serious broken for melee right now. My barbarian has 50k hp 1k resis 15k dps 25% melee dmg reduct 1400 loh. Many legendaries and high end rares and any time I meet a ranged elite with a magical affix I simply can not kill it.

Every time I attack the elite twice it will start moving. While I'm chasing it through plague, fire chains, and molten #$% on the ground. It's simply impossible, even with the best gear. Unless you somehow get lucky and trap 1 of the elites in a corner by it self.
There are so many affixes that are simply bull@#$% for melee. Did you guys even test things like nightmarish? Everytime a mob attacks me I lose control of my character for 3 seconds? How do you seriously expect melee to avoid this.
06/07/2012 04:42 PMPosted by Nova
As far as repair costs, for delicate classes there are UNAVOIDABLE deaths. Jailer+desecrate and teleport+firechain are some examples. There is NOTHING player skill wise you can do to avoid these which is already super frustrating. But making that frustrating, unavoidable death cost 5x as much will just add more frustration.


You are sooo wrong-.- Pretty much everything is avoidable. you know several skills actually break you free from jails (mirror images, teleport and so on for a wizard), some help you gain distance, but more importantly by slowing the enemies. teleport can be bad. Not every mob seems to teleport at same rate. but those that sit in your face every 2 sec. Gain some distance really helps. They seem to not teleport a screen width or more.

Also a note on Blizzard changes, can't say anything else than I felt everything was needed... Mortars are generally just easy to avoid though (for ranged)... but it seems right to make it impossible to do so by gaining distance. I always liked the feeling of avoiding them in a closer quarter.

This game is serious broken for melee right now. My barbarian has 50k hp 1k resis 15k dps 25% melee dmg reduct 1400 loh. Many legendaries and high end rares and any time I meet a ranged elite with a magical affix I simply can not kill it.

Every time I attack the elite twice it will start moving. While I'm chasing it through plague, fire chains, and molten #$% on the ground. It's simply impossible, even with the best gear. Unless you somehow get lucky and trap 1 of the elites in a corner by it self.


Which is why Bliz is fixing it ^^

06/10/2012 02:58 AMPosted by Bob
There are so many affixes that are simply bull@#$% for melee. Did you guys even test things like nightmarish? Everytime a mob attacks me I lose control of my character for 3 seconds? How do you seriously expect melee to avoid this.

on the Nightmarish. I'm pretty sure you can break it as well. also you know there are stats that reduce the time you flee. You can also try not to get hit by interrupting and stunning the target. There is actually a whole lot you can do.
Edited by TheCrowSword#2424 on 6/10/2012 3:27 AM PDT

And finally, there are always minor polish adjustments designed to help melee -- such as the AI on some monsters (BEES!!!) being tweaked to run away less often, which again helps melee more than ranged. I actually spent some extra time the other day to make sure if a Sand Wasp runs away from you, and you start chasing the wasp, it doesn't turn and shoot 4 bees in your face (hopefully that makes 1.0.3). I'm also working with one of our gameplay engineers to make it so if you sidestep the Dark Berserker’s power hit (where he brings his giant mace down), he doesn’t turn to track you as he swings (though that change probably won't make 1.0.3). These kind of AI adjustments are things ranged players don’t even notice, but are huge for melee.

Another adjustment being made is increasing both the maximum range and the dead zone of Mortar. Mortar was specifically designed to be an anti-range affix, but many ranged players would just stand even farther away, whereas melee would sometimes get caught in the cross-fire of two Mortars. Increasing the maximum range and the dead zone helps with both of these.


This is some of the sexiest news ive heard :D TY TY TY
an amazing post, well said my friend!
85 Human Paladin
11525
Translation: You are not playing the game the way WE demand that you play the game. You will all have the same spec, you will all have the same gear, stat, vit, res, allres and because you are not doing what we tell you to do were going to punish you, know that we have more plans to punish you if this keeps up which we may implement anyway just because.
But that's not true at all. While Diablo III may not be for everyone, our goal is to make the game as fun as it possibly can be -- for long-time fans of the franchise, for players just getting started, and for all those people somewhere in the middle -- and criticism lets us know how we can improve.


What a crock. Nerf the game more, even I'm thinking about getting a refund. You don't give a crap about constructive feedback. Blizzard will just continue to do whatever it wants while nerfing the game to provide no play options to anybody. If you want to play the game for everyone by corralling them in like sheep with nerfs then you should have kept the game to yourselves. This title is a disgrace to the Diablo name, you sold it's entire essence in name only; you couldn't possibly pour anymore WoW garbage into this.
Why exactly should melee have tons more survivability than a wizard and yet have the same DPS? I've seen plenty of videos with barbarians and monks owning inferno, by the way.

Oh, barbs and monk get a free built in 30% damage reduction. Pretty sweet. And can heal as they fight. Sweet.


You're an idiot, I already explained this and you did not respond to my post at all. Now you choose to restate the same flawed argument to convince people, ignoring all the solid counterarguments against what you say, simply because they prove you wrong. Stop posting ignorant bullsh1t. I'm just going to quote myself because i don't really feel like wasting time on you showing why you're wrong all over again.

(long post, not going to quote it)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5590647017?page=19#374

In every almost every action/adventure/RTS/RPG game, ranged heros do substantially LESS damage than equivalent melee counterparts.
DotA, DotA 2, LoL, HoN, Diablo 1, NWN 1, NVW2, Starcraft, Starcraft 2, Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3 are the ones that come to mind immediately, although i'm sure there are many many more.
A lot of those are Blizzard titles. You'll note that in quite a few of those games, ranged is often considered superior anyway due to the benefits given by the ability to attack from a distance. Especially evident in games like DotA where ranged, despite having lower stats and damage is considered far superior at laning and farming.

And all you have is a no-one-has-ever-heard-of-me game to back your statement up? *shakes head*


06/08/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Grumpy
I think it is very stupid to design a game where melee out tanks and out damages "ranged" characters. But in D3 there are NO ranged characters in inferno. The "ranged" characters are constantly jerked into melee range, teleoported on top of, ran down by monsters faster than the Flash, or jailed. And they can do nothing about it.


That's cool that you THINK that, but do you have anything to support it? I THINK i should be allowed to have all your gold. Does that make it reasonable?
In my previous posts I showed reasonable logic, backing the fact that ranged should be doing no more DPS than ranged while melee also having more HP. I also gave examples of games where this design theory was put into practice and they're all games that most people consider to be well balanced, at least concept wise, so clearly the theory works. If you're going to argue this point of contention, please try to show good reason why you're correct, simply having an opinion does not make it correct.

As for you being 'jerked' into melee, every other hero gets that and the same excuse is constantly sprouted by badies. The 'how to avoid it' part has been explained many times over so i'm not going to reiterate it. The crux of the matter is that you only have to be near enemies for a whole split second while you hit your spammable escape after being vortexed or something similar. Yes there will be times that stuff that kills you and you won't be able to do anything about it. But that's the same for everyone, only that melee don't often have the same escapes available to them and they certainly don't have the opportunity to immediately reengage after escaping.
On top of that, while you only get 'pulled' into danger, the very method of attack puts melee heros into danger. So not only is there a reduction in the opportunity to do damage (which requires higher DPS to compensate for lack of opportunity to DPS) but there is also a much greater inherent risk in the act of DPSing (which thus requires higher survivability to attempt to mitigate some of this added risk).
Edited by TheOnlyAce#6586 on 6/10/2012 8:49 AM PDT
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