Diablo® III

The Unanswered Question


sounds like it's mostly to nerf Ranged players. increasing mortar range, so that now it's impossible to not be in range and kill the mob.

this means you are supposed to melee them as a DH? LOL

or did the devs forget you cannot shoot on the move except with strafe which has gimp damage.

i pity anyone playing a ranged character on hardcore
Edited by Numenoreans#1873 on 6/12/2012 6:57 AM PDT
Posts: 218
Another adjustment being made is increasing both the maximum range and the dead zone of Mortar. Mortar was specifically designed to be an anti-range affix, but many ranged players would just stand even farther away, whereas melee would sometimes get caught in the cross-fire of two Mortars. Increasing the maximum range and the dead zone helps with both of these.

Mortar is being buffed against ranged? .. ;-;
Good write up, but unfortunately I don't see a whole lot of original solutions here.

You've developed a game that has a one-dimensional difficulty ramp up. It's like your team just got lazy and decided that instead of making the game ramp up dynamically to involve a challenge in strategy, mechanics and survival, etc, that you just said "ZOMG just make the monsters do more DAMAGE!. That's how we'll make this game harder!"

Imagine what the WoW community would do if you didn't make any distinction between Normal and Heroic raiding? No new mechanics, no new phases, no new abilities! Better yet, instead of Normal and Heroic, you end up having Normal, Kinda Normal, Heroic, Super Heroic! Again, no intelligent or original way of ramping the difficult other than what a 12 year old can think of, "
Let's have them do more damage"

So, unfortunately, this is the reason why many are frustrated and why a simple repair cost ramp isn't going to fix or balance the game so that it's fun and exciting for most players.

I understand that the original games played like this, but that was out of limitation at the time, not because everyone just loved it. Imagine a scaled AI system where monsters got smarter through later difficulties. As long as your difficulty ramp is one-dimensional, players will be forced to play one dimensionally! That kind of build diversity and freedom of playstyle cannot be obtained, because your foundation is off. Ranged want to go glass-cannon.. wonder why.. Melee being forced to tank...wonder why?

It's not because Inferno is too hard. We like the difficulty. It's because its too one-dimensional and forces us to play in a certain way that isn't' fun for everyone. If you nerf the content, then its not hard anymore and we get bored (think WoW here). The only option is to change that fundamental flaw in the game and tune the difficulty more dynamically.

Fun does not have to mean difficult, and difficult does not have to mean fun.

This is a sentiment that I've repeated a few times. I'd really like folks to take a second and absorb it.

The Diablo franchise has never been about having fun through punitive difficulty. It can be made reasonably difficult at higher levels, however, players with good reflexes and fast internet connections shouldn't have any trouble with it. If you're a gamer that's got roots in first person shooters and twitch games, realistically, you should never expect to die in a Diablo game, unless you get very careless.

What happened though, was they got some feedback from a few people who had been playing Diablo 2 for 5 years and had 10 accounts full of ultra items complain that the game could be rolled through quite easily, so they trolled everyone by creating a final difficulty setting where it's entirely possible to be insta-gibbed by a creature from offscreen using a charge-stun-powerhit.

The only error they made in their trolling of the player base was putting all the useful item drops and rewards in this punitive, corpse hopping, rapid fire death, waiting for 30 second res timers difficulty setting.

Inferno should be a massive 1 shot fest, just like it is. The worst mistake they made is making it so that it drops gear. You should get achievements for playing and beating it, sure, but you should be able to get all the gear you need to do it in Hell.
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I have a lvl 53 monk, 60 barb, 60 mage, and 60 DH. DH is by far the best class in this game. He just does everything way more efficient and better then any other class.
when is patch 1.0.3 coming?
06/12/2012 07:05 AMPosted by Zyki
when is patch 1.0.3 coming?

They still didnt answer the question why melee has far less dps then ranged
1 Goblin Hunter
Posts: 112
The game has a one-dimensional difficulty and because of this, one-dimensional build and play. I understand the type of gamer you can be with quick reflexes, strategy and clever thinking, but the game still isn't fun.

There are still impossible situations, because all you're dealing with is increased damage, that's it. No additional mechanics, no additional tools, no original ideas, just increased damage.

Quick reflexes, great gaming hardware aren't enough. They SHOULD be enough, but they aren't. Change the way the difficulty ramps up. Make it more dynamic. Let us deal with more interesting things other than how to avoid or mitigate damage. I want monsters to be smarter, have new and different abilities that weren't possible in previous difficulties. Stop forcing melee to be pigeonholed and ranged to kite forever and ignore fun skills because they're unusable.

Repairs costs won't fix it. Only a fundamental change in how difficulty works in the game can change this.
Edited by Cirdecus#1205 on 6/12/2012 7:15 AM PDT
My Freinds and me go to work every day. We have friends, family and a girlfriend. We havn't the time to farm gold to buy us the gear and now you want to increase the repair costs?!
Additionally We want to FIND the gear an not buy it! However, we had a little plus at the end of the evening when we go to bed and maybe in a few weeks we can buy us something.
When we play together at the evening, we die around 10 times in inferno. That make around 15k gold repair costs, when we have earned 50k gold at the evening. If you increase the repair costs there is no reasen to play the game beacause we (casual) Players make maybe 1k at the evening and die all the time an can't buy anything.... I hope you understand. Sry my English isn't very well.

Gear up in Hell act4 and inferno act1 first if you die so much
1 Goblin Hunter
Posts: 112
Until this patch, this wasn't a practical way to gear up. Not only were the item levels not available, but the random generated stats gave you a lottery's chance at getting the gear you need.

What you COULD do is farm gold. Take your gold to the AH and buy gear. Retarded.

Everyone had fun in D1 and D2 finding awesome weapons and armor. I can't remember the last time i actually found something i put on my character. The entire farming and gearing process revolves around farming gold like a freak'in asian gold farmer and then buying the gear you want.

Mortar is being buffed against ranged? .. ;-;

Ive cleared and farmed inferno on both a barb and a DH, and I find mortar far worse on my barb, to where it hardly has an effect on my DH.
Repair Costs
One of the more controversial changes in 1.0.3 is the increased repair costs. The design intent of these increased repair costs is to make death more meaningful. One of the top arguments we see against the increased repair costs is "I'm already dying dozens of times to make any progress in Inferno. Don't you see this is going to make this impossible?" This concern is most often brought up by ranged glass cannons. Many melee players respond "increased repair costs seem fine" because they haven't been using death-zerging as a tactic. Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.

[quote]Repair Costs
One of the more controversial changes in 1.0.3 is the increased repair costs. The design intent of these increased repair costs is to make death more meaningful. One of the top arguments we see against the increased repair costs is "I'm already dying dozens of times to make any progress in Inferno. Don't you see this is going to make this impossible?" This concern is most often brought up by ranged glass cannons. Many melee players respond "increased repair costs seem fine" because they haven't been using death-zerging as a tactic. Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.

I play a DH and I am in Nightmare mode to get to the point I die a lot I m not a super player and to me this feels like your punishing a class that the mechanics are different. If this goes through I will be forced to stop playing because all the enjoyment of this game will collapse and I will quiit, and yeah I know my voice don't count because if I quit you don't care..

I have a similar problem but its with the respawn timer i spend alot of time soloing and if i'm struggling to kill elites on my own and i die because of a inferno elite 1 shots me and i have to run back quick before his hp regens how does making my respawn timer longer and longer fair ? isn't losing 10% durability and paying the repairs punishment enough for the death but up to a 30 second timer to repawn and i noticed a debuff called "Out of Time" which very quickly bleeds a player of HP while they are still struggling to kill elites i'm not sure about the rest of the players but this just seems like your stacking the deck against players who aren't pro's and hardcore about challenges.
"tl:dr; Why do ranged do more damage than melee, when melee have much less uptime and much more risk?
Can you please explain/reconcile the disparity between melee and ranged in this game? You've given ranged by far the most DPS, while they're in danger the least. It would seem that since melee are the most at risk, they should have the most reward, DPS wise. Instead, I have to close the gap on my enemies and then do far less damage to them. It's particularly noticeable in group play, where I will be attacking a monster for 30 seconds, until a wizard or DH shows up and drops it in 3. Melee in group play is embarrassing. If you're a good player, you realize you can't do much against the barrage of affixes on elites, so you hang back with the ranged and do nothing. If you're a bad player, you try to kill the elites and die repeatedly. Either way, it's just straight embarrassing to take part in. I've lost in-game friends because they've told me it'd be easier with another class, and they just stop inviting me, or accepting invites.
The affixes on elites also heavily favor range, with most affixes requiring melee to leave DPS range, and simply run around waiting them out. Ranged can still DPS while this is going on. Things like mortar, which are supposed to be a ranged problem, are actually a melee problem too because you have mobs separated and one ends up mortaring right on you. If you try to run out, the others mortar you. Most every affix, save maybe fast and damage reflect, is just as deadly or more deadly for melee.
So much of a melee's passives/skills/runes are set to defensive abilities, that it feels like I'm not actually playing a dynamic class, just trying to throw percentages at an enemy to see if I come out on top.
Even in your recent Patch 1.0.3 preview you say:
"If a monk or barbarian is geared well enough that they can use a heavily offensive build and murder everything in Act I, they should be able to swap to a more defensive build and do okay in Act II. As they gear up they can begin adjusting back to becoming offensive in Act II, at which point they can jump into Act III with a focus on defense, and so on."
Why does melee have to "earn" it's chosen offensive play style, whereas ranged has that option from the start? Why do I have to suffer thru a defensive build that is less fun to play in order to earn an offensive build? You implicitly admit in that post that an offensive build is melee's goal: why do you choose to hinder this goal on Monk and Barb, but not on ranged? And then, when we do get that offensive style, it's still less effective than a ranged class? You give ranged classes great damage avoidance abilities--Mirror Image is particularly ridiculous--but you give melee classes percentage shifters: more dodge, less damage, more armor. And again, I do far less damage than the ranged classes, yet I'm tanking with my face. For one instance, look at the damage difference between say Earth Ally and Venom Hydra. It's also not a good sign when you have to stop and actually calculate if Tyrael is doing more DPS than you.
I just can't reconcile the fact that I take much more abuse, and dish out much less than ranged classes. Can you please explain your thinking behind this decision?"

Becuase no matter how much dps a ranged character gets it will still die in at least 3 hits no matter what in inferno. 200 mil gear on a DH and you solo inferno, 200 mil on a barb/monk and you solo inferno while tanking mobs and not dying once.

Edit: the main difference is that, at 1 mil gear ranged class solos inferno(extremely slowly and by kiting tediously), a melee dies instantly, gets gear checked, and cries like a baby instead of the mighty warrior they are. tl;dr don't rush the game, take it slowly, play the class you LIKE.

Edit2: I play each class successfully on inferno in every act and have only spent 10 mil tops on the AH.
Edited by Wheresmycat#1399 on 6/12/2012 7:28 AM PDT
1 Goblin Hunter
Posts: 112
I think its unfortunate that the AH is the main source of gear and the game revolves around it. While it's a natural evolution for an item based game such as Diablo, it could be the cost of its failure. Finding useful items brought the gameplay quality to a fantastic level. The AH removes that gameplay and fun.

A way to mitigate this is to simply make item drops less random. Take a hands-on approach and stop being lazy.

For instance:

Monk player goes through Inferno Act 1. The game knows he's a monk, knows what stats (not necessarily the combo, but in general) that he's looking for on items. Adjusts the chance for an item to have a different stat that isn't useful to him. So when a belt drops, it has maybe a 40% chance to have his kind of stats and a 60% chance to have unrelated stats.

Here's another way: Don't create items that are class restrictive with randomly generated useless stats, such as intellect on a Barbarian weapon.

Yes, revealing item levels and creating a new way for players to judge the quality of the item, rather than the level requirement fixes about 2% of the problem.
thanks for the update !
1 Goblin Hunter
Posts: 112
again, this is because the difficulty ramp is one-dimensional and not dynamic. You can't have class and build balance when your game only ramps up difficulty one way.
All the people saying how easy D3 should post how many times they died. I am lvl 56 starting Act III Hell and haven't even died 10 times yet. With most of those deaths in Multiplayer since everyone else dies like they don't care and I am left with terrible odds

wait till inferno buddy ! I thought the same
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