Diablo® III

Max Potential-Inferno Barbarian (Act3&4 Done)

Hey Zero,nice topic,sick as hell gear too!
I'd like to ask you a few questions,more like,asking for your opinion on barbs

Do you think the class is underpowered?
Do you think its endgame role is being an impenetrable wall of defense with a toothbrush as your weapon?(Aka having abysmally low dps with very high survival stats,no chance at killing anything,just going into melee and holding leftmouse for 4 mins for 1 mob)
Do you think this is fun?
Do you think fury spenders and fury itself are broken?

Your open input on these questions would clear up a lot of things on barbarian's place in the game,because I see tons of people doing these "l2p this is not wow" and "inferno is ment to be hard" and "farm more gear" topics and they greatly infuriate me, because they seem utterly bull!@#$,yet I cannot prove this yet.


Dear Nordixx,

Very interesting, i would like to comment on your questions in full. I am at work now and just about to go into a meeting. I will put more time into replying this when i get home. Please do come back later to view my reply. Thanks for your understanding!


End game roll

I cannot be a judge on this. For example, there are options like 2 hander, sword & board and the new sprint build (i guess). It's up to the person really. My choice is obvious (for my own reasons and preferred play style). I can further give you my thoughts, pro and cons break down on each build but that may not be your question, let me know if you want me to further discuss on this.

Do you think the class is underpowered?

Depends on how you see it. With crazy gears it becomes playable in inferno. But most people may not have good enough gear to clear inferno act 3 & 4. A game such as D3 with wide audience i am a little surprise on the end game difficulties (just a little too high maybe).

Specifically 2 things that are stopping me from enjoying the game as much as i want / really bugs me:

- Group play difficulty in inferno act 3 & 4. This is wrong or maybe not, but i am not enjoying it so much. Friends want me to tank for them in act 3 & 4, i try my best, but in group play even with my gears it is no easy task. They die over and over again and most of the time even if i manage to stay alive i am sweating and hoping my dps friends can come and deal with the mobs and get it over with, but they cannot because they are dead most of the time. By the time we got to the third elite pack i am like "this is a waste of time, i am too tired"....now, being able to tank but not enough dps to effectively kill elite pack in group play act 3 & 4, inbalance or not? I don't know but i am starting to avoid doing group play specially for act 4....This is not lich king 25H, not everyone are super geared within a super guild with years of experience playing together. I suggest they do something about this.

- For both solo and group play in act 3 & 4, i am fine in dealing with all types of elites and elite skill set (laser, pool, fire ball...whatever), but there is one particular elite skill that frustrates the hell out of me -> the one that they split into 4-5 mirrored mobs. On my screen there are 15-20 of them. Melee do not have the aoe to down the mirrored mobs quickly. So what you are suppose to do is find the real mob and kill it. But when you mouse over the real mob / the mirrored one there is no indication of if he is real or not. So i had to judge based on the mobs hp, the mob with the highest hp is likely to be the real one. Now, when you have 15-20 same mobs on the screen and when they jump around like crazy it is very hard in being able to locate that thing and dps on it. Worse is that our dps is not high so you cannot down the real mob quickly enough, so you end up killing the mirrored mobs and they re-spawn and you kill them again...repeat & repeat, i do not die but i am there doing the same thing for 20 mins. Very boring & frustrating for melee to deal with this particular situation. In act 3 & 4 facing this skill, it takes you forever even at the end if you are able to kill it. Inbalance or not for melee to deal with this mob skill? I don't know, maybe i am missing something here.

Do you think this is fun?

It is a fun game, just not group play act 3 & 4 for my build.

Do you think fury spenders and fury itself are broken?

Specifically for my build, my fury bar is always full, i use berserker rage passive outside of group play act 3 & 4. Broken or not? Well other builds need fury though.

Good luck!
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Great posts zero. Appreciate the breakdown of your stats to complete the game. I just got to Act 3 of inferno and can't help but keep thinking, "Is this really end game?" Not that fun, just a massive, slow grind. I'm rocking 8-900 resist all and a measily 11k dps lol.
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06/04/2012 06:25 AMPosted by Kin
Great posts zero. Appreciate the breakdown of your stats to complete the game. I just got to Act 3 of inferno and can't help but keep thinking, "Is this really end game?" Not that fun, just a massive, slow grind. I'm rocking 8-900 resist all and a measily 11k dps lol.


Yes we are all in the same boat, my base dps is ~17,000, with frenzy + berserker rage (i wear this most of the time) mu dps is near 25,000, trying to get it over 30,000 dps. My dps is already not low for a tankish build i think.....

By the way, i said it before, i also had 800-900+ all resist and high hp (tested that build) in the past i still die like crazy in act 3 & 4 that's why i had no choice and included block into the formula.
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90 Orc Shaman
10845
Posts: 1,036
Oh I do have a question actually, how hard would you rank clearing pony level at?

Is the gear requirement less or more than inferno act 3/4?
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Oh I do have a question actually, how hard would you rank clearing pony level at?

Is the gear requirement less or more than inferno act 3/4?


I did play the pony level, but before i had 51% "block". At that time i was not strong enough to complete the level (inferno pony group play of 4), also other members were not very well geared.

But i have a pretty good idea on the difficult, i would say difficulty wise the inferno pony level is on par with act 4, a bit harder than inferno act 3.

In fact that you mentioned it i may find time and go back to try it. :)
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Well... I disagree with a lot that you said, as I use a 2 hand and find that it works great. You say you are forced into being a tank but I think that is a self imposed limitation. Every time I join a public game, everyone is dying left and right. When I get to the zone, I usually have to solo some elite while everyone is dead and then carry the group. When I leave the group, the group disbands every single time and then I get messages asking if I can help them duo the quest that tehy are on.

But anyway, you can get much better gear if you dont get melee reduction and block gear. I think you will have no problems with a 2h.


Which fantasy/delusional world is this happening in? Act 3 in normal?


At most it is Inferno Act 1. I remember when I used to think Act 1 was hard... then I got to Act 2

To have a 2H you would need it to be worth it and TBH I can't think of much worth giving up a 50% chance to block +1000 str and resist all maybe xD
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Oh I do have a question actually, how hard would you rank clearing pony level at?

Is the gear requirement less or more than inferno act 3/4?


I did play the pony level, but before i had 51% "block". At that time i was not strong enough to complete the level (inferno pony group play of 4), also other members were not very well geared.

But i have a pretty good idea on the difficult, i would say difficulty wise the inferno pony level is on par with act 4, a bit harder than inferno act 3. I remember i was surprised at how hard it was then. To be honest, even now for a group of 4 i think we will struggle.

In fact that you mentioned it i may find time and go back to try it. :)
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90 Orc Shaman
10845
Posts: 1,036
Oh I was just thinking solo btw. I'm nowhere near geared enough to try in a group.

Atm, my gear level is struggling through act 3 if that gives you a rough idea.
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Oh I was just thinking solo btw. I'm nowhere near geared enough to try in a group.

Atm, my gear level is struggling through act 3 if that gives you a rough idea.


First of all i have not done pony inferno solo myself. But from my group play experience my guess is that in terms of difficulty pony inferno solo = act 4 inferno solo.

I hope that helps!
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Zero,

A few comments:

1) This is one of the very best (if not THE best) threads I've ever read on these forums. Thank you for sharing everything, and above all thank you for your patience and respectful approach in dealing with all the questions. Your post answered my dying question... which was: "If I grind long enough and play the AH long enough to farm the gold, will I be able to play the way I WANT TO in the end game".

2) Also thank you to guys like Pharosh and Aerial who have contributed to this thread... the perspective you guys bring has always been invaluable.

3) Don't mind the trolls who criticize the way you've acquired your gear. Fact of the matter is, they are retarded and completely missed the entire point of your post. I honestly don't care how you made your money, whether you used your daddy's VISA or you spent 8 hours a day farming the AH... the knowledge you have shared is invaluable and will save many on this forum countless hours.

I have just two questions for you (they are detailed but I wanted to give you as much info as possible so please bear with me):

1) Like 99% of the population, I was late to the AH money-making game. I did not have DH/Wizard friends who were among the first to farm Inferno in the early days, and as such, I feel the opportunity to make tens of millions of gold is gone now. I can already feel the AH becoming more efficient and saturated... just last week I was able to buy my resist all/str/vit gear for very cheap, and I was able to find numerous deals to get these pieces at 100-200k. This weekend, I'm noticing all of this exact same gear selling for 300k+ AND the "steals" in terms of deals are very few and far in between. All of that to say: Do YOU feel the opportunity to really make meaningful money on the AH is gone? Obviously anyone can still make money if they have the time and patience, but in terms of time investment/reward ratio, do you feel, based on your experience recently with the AH, that it is now a lot less rewarding to farm it considering the time investment?

2) I have A2 on farm status (solo)... I have about 10k dps, 45k hp, and about 550 resist all (everything unbuffed). I also have 1200 life on hit from my crappy 700 dps sword (700 life on hit, but no stats) and a str/vit/500 life on hit amulet.

I am struggling with A3, both with survivability and damage. I only have about 2M gold saved up, so there's no way I can afford archon-tier resist-all gear. Where should my priority be in terms of buying new gear? I have some 800-890 DPS 1H magic swords, but they have few stats, and to be honest, I felt the higher dps (another 2.5k) was not worth giving up 700 life-on-hit. From what I can see in the AH, the next tier armor costs about 1-2M for EACH piece, so I think it may be pointless to upgrade armor since I only have enough to upgrade 1-2 pieces tops, which won't make enough of a difference. I have been searching desperately for a 850+ DPS 1H with ~500 life on hit for 1-2M buyout, but the odds of getting this is slim.

Where should my gear priority/gold be spent on to get A3 on farm status? Improving armor? Saving up for a stormshield? Continue making more gold, and waiting for that "perfect" 1H life-on-hit weapon? Or buying a regular 900+ DPS 1H weapon with some stats, and hope the damage offsets the loss of Life-on-hit?

Thanks for your huge contribution Zero, you have done the barb community a tremendous service, and we are lucky to have you.
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Zero,

A few comments:

1) This is one of the very best (if not THE best) threads I've ever read on these forums. Thank you for sharing everything, and above all thank you for your patience and respectful approach in dealing with all the questions. Your post answered my dying question... which was: "If I grind long enough and play the AH long enough to farm the gold, will I be able to play the way I WANT TO in the end game".

2) Also thank you to guys like Pharosh and Aerial who have contributed to this thread... the perspective you guys bring has always been invaluable.

3) Don't mind the trolls who criticize the way you've acquired your gear. Fact of the matter is, they are retarded and completely missed the entire point of your post. I honestly don't care how you made your money, whether you used your daddy's VISA or you spent 8 hours a day farming the AH... the knowledge you have shared is invaluable and will save many on this forum countless hours.

I have just two questions for you (they are detailed but I wanted to give you as much info as possible so please bear with me):

1) Like 99% of the population, I was late to the AH money-making game. I did not have DH/Wizard friends who were among the first to farm Inferno in the early days, and as such, I feel the opportunity to make tens of millions of gold is gone now. I can already feel the AH becoming more efficient and saturated... just last week I was able to buy my resist all/str/vit gear for very cheap, and I was able to find numerous deals to get these pieces at 100-200k. This weekend, I'm noticing all of this exact same gear selling for 300k+ AND the "steals" in terms of deals are very few and far in between. All of that to say: Do YOU feel the opportunity to really make meaningful money on the AH is gone? Obviously anyone can still make money if they have the time and patience, but in terms of time investment/reward ratio, do you feel, based on your experience recently with the AH, that it is now a lot less rewarding to farm it considering the time investment?

2) I have A2 on farm status (solo)... I have about 10k dps, 45k hp, and about 550 resist all (everything unbuffed). I also have 1200 life on hit from my crappy 700 dps sword (700 life on hit, but no stats) and a str/vit/500 life on hit amulet.

I am struggling with A3, both with survivability and damage. I only have about 2M gold saved up, so there's no way I can afford archon-tier resist-all gear. Where should my priority be in terms of buying new gear? I have some 800-890 DPS 1H magic swords, but they have few stats, and to be honest, I felt the higher dps (another 2.5k) was not worth giving up 700 life-on-hit. From what I can see in the AH, the next tier armor costs about 1-2M for EACH piece, so I think it may be pointless to upgrade armor since I only have enough to upgrade 1-2 pieces tops, which won't make enough of a difference. I have been searching desperately for a 850+ DPS 1H with ~500 life on hit for 1-2M buyout, but the odds of getting this is slim.

Where should my gear priority/gold be spent on to get A3 on farm status? Improving armor? Saving up for a stormshield? Continue making more gold, and waiting for that "perfect" 1H life-on-hit weapon? Or buying a regular 900+ DPS 1H weapon with some stats, and hope the damage offsets the loss of Life-on-hit?

Thanks for your huge contribution Zero, you have done the barb community a tremendous service, and we are lucky to have you.


I thank you for all the kind words and i will do my best to answer your question.

That was exactly why i posted this topic (like you understood). I spent a good amount of gold and finished act 2, when i arrived at act 3 i was like woot?!?! I was getting kicked around like there is no tomorrow. Have i wasted all my gold and time doing sometimes wrong, is there hope with this class i asked myself. I knew i will not give up, but my question was "if i am satisfied with my gear, can i get through the remaining of the game and how far can i push in terms of Barbarian's performance". I just guess some of you may be interested in knowing too (the ones who used similar build as mine)...

Anyway, back to your questions:

1) AH no doubt is a much more difficult game right now. I don't know about you, but i do notice specifically starting a week ago there are less and less silly / amazing deals popping up which makes it more difficult to make good profit. Information are flowing and people are learning the value and statistics of each item. Having said that, i think it is harder, but not impossible to find amazing deals. Camp at the right hours and camp for the right products are the keys. I already mentioned quite a bit about how i AH a few posts back. There will always be new comers and there will always be amazing deals, don't give up, you are too close to! Btw, i am still camping myself, i do not have enough to upgrade my sword at the moment so.. :)

2) My advice on how to proceed with upgrades in your situation (may not be relevant to let say 2 hander build). 45k hp and 550 resist is not bad, be carefully and try not to go any lower. You are fine with these statistic (once you stack the block, not before, you are not fine). For block, ideally is stormshield with + life %. Either save up, be patient, and wait for a good deal to appear and buy the stormshield (at least 25%-28%-32% block otherwise no point in spending that amount of gold on a stormshield. Or buy another shield with high block (there are some rare shields with high block, but maybe without the amazing damage reduction / + life...). Anyhow, shield and block IS your next focus. If you have 45k hp, 550 resist and let say ~35% - 40% block and some form of damage reduction you will start to notice the huge difference in your toughness. Of course in order to get that kind of block you need another item to apart from the shield.

I want to comment on your weapon too. For weapon my priority is that dps comes first, then other things str, vit, heal on hit, socket, attack speed, crit in no particular order depending on what you need most from other armor pieces. In your post from what you mentioned, i don't want you to over value heal on hit at this point. In act 3 & 4 you need dps! So for me given the choice i will replace your sword if the dps diff IS big enough and worth it. And remember once you have stacked the block %, you may not need your heal on hit as badly then. It does not mean replace your sword for higher dps right away, but when you are more comfortable with your defense.

I hope the above are clear :)
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Thanks so much for the detailed response.

You mentioned for me to focus on shield and block. If you had to narrow it down to two items for me to focus on acquiring (in terms of overall impact to my ability to clear A3), what would those be? I'm thinking Stormshield, justice lantern and helm of command all increase block rate.

Just FYI, my current shield is as follows: 1350 armor, 52 resist all, 26% block, 60 strength. Not the greatest, but it has most of what I need.

To get enough for stormshield would take at least another 2 weeks of farming/AH playing... not sure if it's worthwhile considering my current shield.

Justice lantern/helm of command is much more attainable, so perhaps I should focus on these two items, which will combine with my current shield to get my block to ~45%.

Thoughts?
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Thanks so much for the detailed response.

You mentioned for me to focus on shield and block. If you had to narrow it down to two items for me to focus on acquiring (in terms of overall impact to my ability to clear A3), what would those be? I'm thinking Stormshield, justice lantern and helm of command all increase block rate.

Just FYI, my current shield is as follows: 1350 armor, 52 resist all, 26% block, 60 strength. Not the greatest, but it has most of what I need.

To get enough for stormshield would take at least another 2 weeks of farming/AH playing... not sure if it's worthwhile considering my current shield.

Justice lantern/helm of command is much more attainable, so perhaps I should focus on these two items, which will combine with my current shield to get my block to ~45%.

Thoughts?


Yes do what you just said. I did not know the statistics on your shield before hand. In that case you can upgrade the shield later (but keep an eye on it in case if you see any good deals). Buy Justice lantern & helm of command first then. For helm of command try to get one with the socket otherwise it will not be better than Mempo of Twilight most of the time.

Just remember 51% block is not a must, it depends on how much all resist you have. I have 51% block and 600 resist, i am sure let say 800 resist and 35% will work just as well. It is about the balance between block, resist, vit, melee damage reduction, you can tell once you've reach a good balance, from me testing slightly up and down on any of them is totally fine!
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/4/2012 11:53 AM PDT
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Posts: 23
few notes from a fellow level 60 inferno barb

first off @Zero has easy 50 million worth of gear, so dont aspire to the exact exact items. Nonetheless, it is his BUILD that makes him a tank. like the actual spells and runes. I tried switching to the spells/runes he is using and it makes a HUGE difference, literally I am standing in packs of act 2 elites and my health is not going down at all, literally i don't hardly lose health. iron impact on leap pretty much makes u invincible for 4 seconds, dreadnought on charge heals, and revenge heals as well. rinse and repeat.

note: you NEED a shield for this build to work. He has 51% block which is great but its not absoluteky required, i am using his same spell build except with more rares instead, so I have higher vitality, damage, dodge, resistances, and armor, but less block. I am using a 23% stormshield and it works fine, and no helm of command or lantern ring yet.

so yeah tl;dr, get a shield, and try this guys spell build its pretty good.
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When you have items that reduce melee/ranged damage is that amount applied before block and/or resists or after?

Also how does reduced melee damage work? My friend has 20% String and 4% from Stormshield but only gets 23.3% or something?
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2hander for the win, all elite named packs in game from 100-0 in 5 seconds.
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- For both solo and group play in act 3 & 4, i am fine in dealing with all types of elites and elite skill set (laser, pool, fire ball...whatever), but there is one particular elite skill that frustrates the hell out of me -> the one that they split into 4-5 mirrored mobs. On my screen there are 15-20 of them.


i have found that in this case what works is to not let go of your primary attack mouse button once you nail the real monster. when he splits, your char will still follow the real one and attack it. this is the same as when you hold down your attack button for things that fly around and get knocked back or teleported (like skeleton king).

'hope that helps.
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few notes from a fellow level 60 inferno barb

first off @Zero has easy 50 million worth of gear, so dont aspire to the exact exact items. Nonetheless, it is his BUILD that makes him a tank. like the actual spells and runes. I tried switching to the spells/runes he is using and it makes a HUGE difference, literally I am standing in packs of act 2 elites and my health is not going down at all, literally i don't hardly lose health. iron impact on leap pretty much makes u invincible for 4 seconds, dreadnought on charge heals, and revenge heals as well. rinse and repeat.

note: you NEED a shield for this build to work. He has 51% block which is great but its not absoluteky required, i am using his same spell build except with more rares instead, so I have higher vitality, damage, dodge, resistances, and armor, but less block. I am using a 23% stormshield and it works fine, and no helm of command or lantern ring yet.

so yeah tl;dr, get a shield, and try this guys spell build its pretty good.


Dear Eskimodavid,

Thank you for mentioning that. Actually you are right throughout the 5 pages i did not really talked about my build because i thought most of you who understand / have interested in this particular post are with act 3 & 4 progress and have enough knowledge on the build (skills) and i need not to say more. People in act 3 & 4 knows that not all creative builds will work (well) in these stages.

My build is pretty standard and i have learned from people on this forum and ended up sticking with what you see from the my skills jpg. A little more on my choices (may not be relevant to other builds):

* I now included the below in my main post

- Frenzy (Maniac or Sidearm) - sword & shield build rely on attack speed and life on hit.
- Revenge (Provocation) - Must have
- War Cry (Impunity) - 100% up time, impunity is too good, must have
- Furious Charge (Dreadnought) - 10s CD 8% regen, must have
- Leap (Iron Impact) - low CD 40% up time of 300% armor, too good to past
- Threatening Shout (Falter) - Now this one we have a choice, either this or Ignore pain. Personally i perfer 100% up time of threatening shout over the ignore pain's longer CD. Act 3 & 4 mobs hit hard, i don't mind a 100% uptime of 20% reduction. I hate dying during ignore pain's downtime. 2 hander build may use ignore pain and try to kill things in 7 seconds, not me.

Superstition - I need this for all the laser, fire, pool on the floor...etc
Tough as Nails - Need the high increase in armor
Nerves of Steel - this or if i am not doing group play act 3 or 4 I use Berserker Rage

Overall the most important factors that i consider when choosing skills are: low CD, high uptime & consistency in defense / performance.

By the way, you are right, in act 2 i am able to not bother to move and just stand still in the middle of laser, fire, all sorts of damage pools and dps the elite packs until they are dead (other well setup & geared tanks can do this too).

Hope the above are clear on my skill choices.
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/6/2012 1:44 AM PDT
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When you have items that reduce melee/ranged damage is that amount applied before block and/or resists or after?

Also how does reduced melee damage work? My friend has 20% String and 4% from Stormshield but only gets 23.3% or something?


My guess is that block comes in first, then damage reduction. It only makes sense like this and that is why block is quite powerful. You take less damage with block and then with the remaining damage amount you further reduce that with your damage reduction values.

Your friend's melee reduction % i do not understand i do not have this problem on my character. Thanks!
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06/05/2012 01:13 AMPosted by Shadowcc
2hander for the win, all elite named packs in game from 100-0 in 5 seconds.


Good luck and all the power to you :)
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