Diablo® III

Max Potential-Inferno Barbarian (Act3&4 Done)

I didn't read all the post here but great post OP.
This is interesting to see that even with god-like gear., the game is not "easy" at the end.

I don't think that game was really tested on End-Inferno at Blizz. That explain a lot of things...

Good job OP.


Oh no the game is not easy at all, right now before the new patch i do not enjoy group play act 3 & 4 at all. I think the same, i remember them saying they just "doubled" the difficulty and not many / none of them have gone that far for it to be tested properly.

Thanks a lot for liking this post :)
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/7/2012 2:43 AM PDT
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Hi zero,

i have a problem.

i have a lot of stuff similar to yours, but i get smoked by the first elite group in act 3.

they shoot lasers plague lands etc.. and i die in a few seconds

i don't know why, can you help?

my gear is a little like yours, the legendary route... but i still get smoked...

is it my shield and the low resists?

these are my stats...

http://i.imgur.com/BT1Ib.jpg

btw how do i make all my items get shown together in rows and columns?

thanks!
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Just a bit of thought about pvp, since people seem that worried about 200k+ DPS Demonhunters.
Lets say we have this demonhunter with some mad 250k DPS.
A lot of that is actually from their passive talent Sharpshooter, boosts DPS a ton, lets you crit 100% after a while. On top of that they stack critdmg and attackspeed, which result in really high DPS. What matters for PvP tho, is the raw damage behind that DPS.
If you have your 250k DPS, how high can you actually crit with that? 250 k DPS doesn't mean each hit will actually do 250k damage. A lot of mobs in game actually have that much attack, just plain raw damage, and with enough resistances and block/block value we know what we get from a single hit.
If you actually pop iron leap/IP against even a mad geared Demon Hunter AND you actually block, i would hardly be surprised if he can't do any damage at all, since with IP up and an average block value of 4k, most of the raw damage he can actually do will be completely nullified.

i have to disagree with u on this.

Say you have a shield that has 30% chance to block between 2000-3000damage. A mob attacks u for 1000damage, then there's a 30% chance that it will be blocked and since this number is lower than the block range, u take 0 damage. However, for the remaining 70% of the time, u do take 1000damage, before armor reduction and so on.

However, as damage becomes really high, then block becomes less and less useful. If instead of 1000damage, the mob does 100,000damage, then the mitigation offered by the shield is pitiful since even if it's blocked, and assuming it blocks for the highest possible amount, u still take 97,000damage, before reduction, which honestly is negligible. This is pretty much what reasonably geared DH can crit for. With their Attack speed and crit rate, this number will pop up very often.

I too love my barbarian and am very frustrated by my progress since items r so ridiculously priced on the AH these days. Am definitely not looking forward to pvp when range classes r so strong.

PvE wise, I really agree with zero in that tank-spec need to have more damage. Doesn't make sense that range classes can do 150k dps while we r doing 15k in inferno.
Edited by Errethakbe#1727 on 6/6/2012 1:20 PM PDT
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Hi zero,

i have a problem.

i have a lot of stuff similar to yours, but i get smoked by the first elite group in act 3.

they shoot lasers plague lands etc.. and i die in a few seconds

i don't know why, can you help?

my gear is a little like yours, the legendary route... but i still get smoked...

is it my shield and the low resists?

these are my stats...

http://i.imgur.com/BT1Ib.jpg

btw how do i make all my items get shown together in rows and columns?

thanks!


Hi ShiroZ,

You have 39% block, 400+ all resist, 7.84 melee reduction, 46k hp & 238 LoH.

- Your block is not bad but increase that a bit if you can later on.

- Your all resist is a problem. I have ~600 and it is considered low by many. I also would like to up my all resist to ~800 but i cannot do that without changing quite a bit of things.

- You have underestimated the importance of melee reduction. I have ~26% reduction if you've noticed.

- Your hp is fine if you can get your others statistics sorted.

- 238 LoH is a bit low but i don't think this should be your priority right now considering your other statistics.

I think all resist and melee damage reduction are the two letting you down mainly. Focus on these and up your block and LoH while you can. I see that you are working on a balanced build like i suggest but if any of the statistic is below a "responsible" figure in act 3 & 4 standard you will encounter problems at this late stage of the game.

Hope the above are clear, good luck!
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thanks zero, but the problem is not with the melee that kills me, but the arcane lasers and all that plague stuff.. but the melee does hit quite hard too now that i think of it...

i just stand on the plague lands and my life drops to 0 in 2 seconds. so it doesn't even matter whether i get melee or not lol.

does the 200 resist more really helps? because from the effective health calculator, 200 resist is roughly equal to 300 vit

so i should just add another 300 vit?
Edited by WhiteZ#6653 on 6/6/2012 1:37 PM PDT
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I'm extremely curious as to what you do for a living that allows you to camp the AH as much as you say you do. Apologies if this is off topic.
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85 Orc Warrior
9730
Zero, question for you regarding block value. I'm to the point now where I'm competitive in A3. It's not vast and I can't face tank, but I can get through gear check Ghom and I can kill champ packs if I'm intelligent (fighting in doorways, trapping kiting dragon mobs in corners, etc).

That said, I'm trying to figure out what the "next big purchase" should be.

Currently, I'm looking approximately like the following:

HP 41-42k.
Damage 14-15k (sorry for not exacts, I'm at work)
Resists 920 Phys for high - 740 for min
Melee Reduction 15%
Armor - 9600 (enchantress)

I know everyone says Stormshield is the #1, but I'm struggling with that, b/c my current shield is a monster.

Current Shield:
20% Block
3700-4700
1200 Armor
50 Str
120 Stam
45 Resist All
9.5% Crit

Given, stormshields can get up to 32%, would it not be better investing in a Helm of Command or a Justice Lantern? For what it'd take to buy a Storm that's far stronger than my current, I could definitely get a good helm or Lantern. Just curious as to your take on this. Also, is everything blockable? I thought it was yes, but I've been fooled before.
Edited by Potemkin#1291 on 6/6/2012 1:50 PM PDT
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thanks zero, but the problem is not with the melee that kills me, but the arcane lasers and all that plague stuff.. but the melee does hit quite hard too now that i think of it...

i just stand on the plague lands and my life drops to 0 in 2 seconds. so it doesn't even matter whether i get melee or not lol.

does the 200 resist more really helps? because from the effective health calculator, 200 resist is roughly equal to 300 vit

so i should just add another 300 vit?


Hi ShiroZ,

Ok let's not talk about melee damage reduction and focus on arcane lasers meaning spell damage. Then let's look into the differences between our characters and what factors could effect your survivability from spell damage: Block amount, block chance, all resist, hp, LoH, your skills build, dodge chance & overall damage reduction.

1) Your block amount is ~1,000 less
2) Your block chance is ~12% less
3) Your all resist is ~200 less
4) Your hp is ~6,000 less
5) Your LoH is ~400 less
6) Most important of all you did not mention your skills build, are you using the exact same skills build as mine? The skills build is very important please check on this.
7) Our dodge chance and damage reduction are similar so let's forget about these for now

As you can see from above, i am doing ok with my ~600 all resist only because apart from the hp and LoH differences i have the SS that gives me ~1000 block amount more than you and i have an overall 12% more block chance than you (which is quite a lot). Meaning our performances will not be the same even if you have ~600 all resist without considering 1, 2, 4, 5 & 6. Maybe you should look into all points from 1-6 but not only all resist.

Please make sure your skills build is fine because this is really important. And are we talking about act 3 solo here anyway? I can tank fine with act 3 solo but in act 3 group play i also have to dodge the high damage spell and not just stand there.

Although i know you want to talk about spell damage specifically but the ~19% melee damage difference may be something you want to "keep an eye on" because there are a lot of hard hitting melee mobs in act 3 & 4. Good luck!!!
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/7/2012 2:54 AM PDT
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06/06/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Trainreq
I'm extremely curious as to what you do for a living that allows you to camp the AH as much as you say you do. Apologies if this is off topic.


I work in IT industry going to work with my own laptop, i am in front of the computer most of the time so I log on for a bit whenever i need to...lol. I play D3 and WoW together with my wife :), she does not work so she helps me out sometimes.
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/7/2012 2:48 AM PDT
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Zero, question for you regarding block value. I'm to the point now where I'm competitive in A3. It's not vast and I can't face tank, but I can get through gear check Ghom and I can kill champ packs if I'm intelligent (fighting in doorways, trapping kiting dragon mobs in corners, etc).

That said, I'm trying to figure out what the "next big purchase" should be.

Currently, I'm looking approximately like the following:

HP 41-42k.
Damage 14-15k (sorry for not exacts, I'm at work)
Resists 920 Phys for high - 740 for min
Melee Reduction 15%
Armor - 9600 (enchantress)

I know everyone says Stormshield is the #1, but I'm struggling with that, b/c my current shield is a monster.

Current Shield:
20% Block
3700-4700
1200 Armor
50 Str
120 Stam
45 Resist All
9.5% Crit

Given, stormshields can get up to 32%, would it not be better investing in a Helm of Command or a Justice Lantern? For what it'd take to buy a Storm that's far stronger than my current, I could definitely get a good helm or Lantern. Just curious as to your take on this. Also, is everything blockable? I thought it was yes, but I've been fooled before.


The shield you have is indeed quite impressive. You are correct considering how good your shield is, you should just go for Helm of Command and Justice Lantern instead, both of them together will cost you much less than a "grade A" SS. You will end up with 39% block, with your existing all resist and armor, if you can up the hp and melee damage reduction a little, you may even end up not needing the SS too be honest. Your statistics are quite healthy as it is, I like them. At the end if you still feel under power only then consider the SS ungrade as your final move.

From what i understand block works both against melee and spell damages, correct me if i am wrong though. Hope this helps!
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/7/2012 2:49 AM PDT
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85 Orc Warrior
9730


The shield you have is indeed quite impressive. You are correct considering how good your shield is, you should just go for Helm of Command and Justice Lantern instead, both of them together will cost you much less than a "grade A" SS. You will end up with 39% block, with your existing all resist and armor, if you can up the hp and melee damage reduction a little, you may even end up not needing the SS too be honest. Your statistics are quite healthy as it is. I like them. At the end if you still feel under power only then consider the SS ungrade as your final move.

From what i understand block works both against melee and spell damages, correct me if i am wrong though. Hope this helps!


Perfect, I'd suspected it blocked projectiles (noticed it face tanking Belial pre-transform). Likely will look for Lantern First b/c it's more mitigation bang for the buck. The real PITA is going to be upping damage to something above my sleep inducing 14-15k. Though i might be able to do so via a + crit damage gem vs a + leech (1700 with only the 190 gem).

Last question. How important do you find movement speed? The reason I'm asking is b/c I have some non-top tier boots with 70/70 str/stam 60 resist all + 12% movement. Obviously the uber boots break 120/120 70 resist all, but movement is going to be non-existent. Never saw it's usefullness really listed anywhere.
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The shield you have is indeed quite impressive. You are correct considering how good your shield is, you should just go for Helm of Command and Justice Lantern instead, both of them together will cost you much less than a "grade A" SS. You will end up with 39% block, with your existing all resist and armor, if you can up the hp and melee damage reduction a little, you may even end up not needing the SS too be honest. Your statistics are quite healthy as it is. I like them. At the end if you still feel under power only then consider the SS ungrade as your final move.

From what i understand block works both against melee and spell damages, correct me if i am wrong though. Hope this helps!


Perfect, I'd suspected it blocked projectiles (noticed it face tanking Belial pre-transform). Likely will look for Lantern First b/c it's more mitigation bang for the buck. The real PITA is going to be upping damage to something above my sleep inducing 14-15k. Though i might be able to do so via a + crit damage gem vs a + leech (1700 with only the 190 gem).

Last question. How important do you find movement speed? The reason I'm asking is b/c I have some non-top tier boots with 70/70 str/stam 60 resist all + 12% movement. Obviously the uber boots break 120/120 70 resist all, but movement is going to be non-existent. Never saw it's usefullness really listed anywhere.


First time someone asks me about movement speed. Let's put it this way, once i wore the boots with +12% movement speed on them i cannot wear one without it. I never thought about if it is useful or not in combat, it does not matter. For me the +12% movement speed is the normal walking speed in game, otherwise the game feels way too slow for me. Besides at least 2 - 3 good boots have this statistic anyway, why not treat yourself and make yourself feel a little more "nifty". Just my own opinion.
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This is awesome .

And more importantly this guide tells me that barbarians with 2h are really broken since most of your damage reduction comes from 50% block it appears .

So unless I can somehow magically block with my 2handed , Im screwed .

HOWEVER I FORGOT TO ASK :

Is the damage blocked which is around 3.7k I think off the top of my head. The damage after armor or before ?

Since a mob hitting for 100k blocking 3.7k isnt much but if after armor /resist reduction the mob is hitting for say 10k then 3.7k block is actually quite nifty .
Edited by Grailer#1417 on 6/6/2012 3:07 PM PDT
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This is awesome .

And more importantly this guide tells me that barbarians with 2h are really broken since most of your damage reduction comes from 50% block it appears .

So unless I can somehow magically block with my 2handed , Im screwed .

HOWEVER I FORGOT TO ASK :

Is the damage blocked which is around 3.7k I think off the top of my head. The damage after armor or before ?

Since a mob hitting for 100k blocking 3.7k isnt much but if after armor /resist reduction the mob is hitting for say 10k then 3.7k block is actually quite nifty .


Um...I don't know what to say to comfort you...what's your progress anyway?

The 1.03 patch changes may be more beneficial to 2 hander builds, seriously. There are some very good posts here focusing on 2 hander builds, those may help you.

My build after 1.03 patch will probably be able to tank in most parts of the game and i may even be able to chip in some offensive skills to up my dps and enjoy the game even more if i am lucky. Whereas the 2 hander builds will soon be able to survive better and do incredible dps but of course you will still die "a fair bit" compare to the more defensive builds. You now have to choose which route to take before putting down your gold for your final upgrades.

Also, your choice of build may depend on if you are interested in upcoming pvp or not. Some thinks an all out dps build will be more powerful in pvp and maybe they are correct. Just that my own experience and own preference tells me i will enjoy pvp / battleground much more with a character with tough skin (Remember we don't have healers here, imagine a warrior in WoW battleground without healers...).

I would say both are viable builds depending on what you can stand / cannot stand, dying a bit less or a bit more dps. But anyhow, do NOT give up man, you can do it!!!
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/7/2012 2:50 AM PDT
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Also one other question .

Why should I choose barbarian for end game ( meaning act 3-4 Inferno )

vs other classes ?

Since at the end of the day D3 is all about farming loot and trading / selling etc thats what Diablo games have always been about . Click and Loot .

If it takes forever to kill things , isnt that going to hinder my chances of getting items ? Vs another class which can kill 10x faster will get 10x more loot . ?
Edited by Grailer#1417 on 6/6/2012 3:33 PM PDT
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Also one other question .

Why should I choose barbarian for end game ( meaning act 3-4 Inferno )

vs other classes ?

Since at the end of the day D3 is all about farming loot and trading / selling etc thats what Diablo games have always been about . Click and Loot .


You do not "have to" choose Barbarian for end game, most people play a few classes and enjoy them. Sometimes you have people falling in love with other classes after started with Barbarian too. But for myself I only like to play melee warrior / barbarian type of classes in rpgs. It is that up front and personal thing, being in the heat of the battle you know. My love is with melee no matter how sh@ty they perform i know that already. Everyone is different though, but if you are not sure yet you definitely should try out other classes, it does not mean you have to give up your Barbarian anyway.

Some claim they use another range character to farm loot because it is faster / easier. I cannot comment on that because i do not have a high level range class. But when i group play with range they keep dying in act 3 & 4 how fast could that be? Maybe they do a LOT better with mobs & elites or skip a lot of them in solo i don't know you better check with others on this, thanks.
Edited by Zero#1230 on 6/6/2012 3:56 PM PDT
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Also one other question .

Why should I choose barbarian for end game ( meaning act 3-4 Inferno )

vs other classes ?

Since at the end of the day D3 is all about farming loot and trading / selling etc thats what Diablo games have always been about . Click and Loot .


You do not "have to" choose Barbarian for end game, most people play a few classes and enjoy them. Sometimes you have people falling in love with other classes after started with Barbarian too. But for myself I only like to play melee warrior / barbarian type of classes in rpgs. It is that up front and personal thing, being in the heat of the battle you know. My love is with melee no matter how sh@ty they perform i know that already. Everyone is different though, but if you are not sure yet you definitely should try out other classes, it does not mean you have to give up your Barbarian anyway.


I love my barbarian . I guess its a love hate relationship . I want him to beable to perform well , But unfortunately this seems almost impossible . The gear you are using is quite impressive .

But not being able to stack str because any item with someone decent str stats 200+ with resist would cost more than ive earnt thus far farming for 3 weeks .

Whereas a DH or WIZ can stack Vit/Int dirt cheap and ( sure die in 1 hit ) but they dont have to get in close to actually kill things .

Thus what im trying to say , is that other classes have a chance to get better loot . While a Barbarian pretty much cannot get better loot , unless farming 12 hours a day for gold or buy gold .

So yeah I guess one has to say . Barbarians are in need of help .

My suggestion would be to remove the requirement of Resist ALL stat . And allow str stat to give the required protection alone .

Then we would stack Vit / Str .. and get to have some other nice toys like +health globes +crit bonus etc etc without having to resort to legendary items with super 1 in a million rolls .
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You do not "have to" choose Barbarian for end game, most people play a few classes and enjoy them. Sometimes you have people falling in love with other classes after started with Barbarian too. But for myself I only like to play melee warrior / barbarian type of classes in rpgs. It is that up front and personal thing, being in the heat of the battle you know. My love is with melee no matter how sh@ty they perform i know that already. Everyone is different though, but if you are not sure yet you definitely should try out other classes, it does not mean you have to give up your Barbarian anyway.


I love my barbarian . I guess its a love hate relationship . I want him to beable to perform well , But unfortunately this seems almost impossible . The gear you are using is quite impressive .

But not being able to stack str because any item with someone decent str stats 200+ with resist would cost more than ive earnt thus far farming for 3 weeks .

Whereas a DH or WIZ can stack Vit/Int dirt cheap and ( sure die in 1 hit ) but they dont have to get in close to actually kill things .

Thus what im trying to say , is that other classes have a chance to get better loot . While a Barbarian pretty much cannot get better loot , unless farming 12 hours a day for gold or buy gold .

So yeah I guess one has to say . Barbarians are in need of help .

My suggestion would be to remove the requirement of Resist ALL stat . And allow str stat to give the required protection alone .

Then we would stack Vit / Str .. and get to have some other nice toys like +health globes +crit bonus etc etc without having to resort to legendary items with super 1 in a million rolls .


Don't give up, 1.03 is just around the corner, have you read the patch note? Check it out if you have not. Act 2,3,4 will be nerf and things will become much more manageable and there is a chance to get better loot at earlier acts. Good luck!
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[quote]

Don't give up, 1.03 is just around the corner, have you read the patch note? Check it out if you have not. Act 2,3,4 will be nerf and things will become much more manageable and there is a chance to get better loot at earlier acts. Good luck!


thanks , hopefully 1.03 makes the cliff face in front of me into a steep hill which is still very hard but not seemingly impossible to progress .

some quotes which give hope for more fun .

"We’re removing the bonus monster damage per additional player in a coop game"

--- grouping with 2h should be possible now without getting slaughtered

"players who would rather murder monsters 4x as fast in Inferno Act I can do so knowing they have a chance at amazing items, and players who want a challenge can kill in Acts III and IV in Inferno and be rewarded with a higher drop rate."

-- -great I will have a chance now to get upgrades without spending 20 days farming gold

"all champion and rare packs will now drop a bonus guaranteed Rare item when you have your full five stacks of Nephalem Valor"

--- I always have 5 stacks in act 1 before I kill butcher, now I will actually go and kill other champs/rare packs in all areas of act 1. The game opens up to be less boring running butcher over and over.

"Our design goal with Acts II, III and IV is to keep them challenging, but smooth the difficulty ramp out a bit."

-- Perfect this is how it should be : problem solved , happy customers
Edited by Grailer#1417 on 6/6/2012 4:16 PM PDT
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thanks zero, but the problem is not with the melee that kills me, but the arcane lasers and all that plague stuff.. but the melee does hit quite hard too now that i think of it...

i just stand on the plague lands and my life drops to 0 in 2 seconds. so it doesn't even matter whether i get melee or not lol.

does the 200 resist more really helps? because from the effective health calculator, 200 resist is roughly equal to 300 vit

so i should just add another 300 vit?


Hi ShiroZ,

Ok let's not talk about melee damage reduction and focus on arcane lasers meaning spell damage. Then let's look into the differences between our characters and what factors could effect your survivability from spell damage: Block amount, block chance, all resist, hp, LoH, your skills build, dodge chance & overall damage reduction.

1) Your block amount is ~1,000 less
2) Your block chance is ~12% less
3) Your all resist is ~200 less
4) Your hp is ~6,000 less
5) Your LoH is ~400 less
6) Most important of all you did not mention your skills build, are you using the exact same skills build as mine? The skills build is very important please check on this.
7) Our dodge chance and damage reduction are similar so let's forget about these for now

As you can see from above, i am doing ok with my ~600 all resist only because apart from the hp and LoH differences i have the SS that gives me ~1000 block amount more than you and i have an overall 12% more block chance than you (which is quite a lot). Meaning our performances will not be the same even if you have ~600 all resist without considering 1, 2, 4, 5 & 6. Maybe you should look into all points from 1-6 but not only all resist.

Please make sure your skills build is fine because this is really important. And are talking about act 3 solo here anyway? I can tank fine with act 3 solo but in act 3 group play i also have to dodge the high damage spell and not just stand there.

Although i know you want to talk about spell damage specifically but the ~19% melee damage difference may be something you want to "keep an eye on" because there are a lot of hard hitting melee mobs in act 3 & 4. Good luck!!!


hmm... yes i am using the same build as yours to survive act 3, but i get smoked in a few seconds :(

is the block amount really that important? 1000 more?

also, since block is capped at around 4000 max, does it mean that stacking life and vit is useless? so stacking damage mitigation is more important?

also, do you use the concept of effective health? because i find it weird that the calculator says 300 vit = 200 all resist. but 300 vit is about 10k life. and judging how fast my life went down just by standing in plague land, i don't think it will save me.

btw, when you stand in the plague lands, does your life drop fast?
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