Diablo® III

Azmodan the retard and Kariya the coolmaster

Obviously the hero is going to bash evils face in, but the way Azmodan is protrayed compared to the way he acts makes no sense.

Azmodan is supposed to be the greatest battlefield commander in hell, but his battle plan for every occasion seems to be:

1. Get a huge army.
2. Apear as a fiery vision to his enemies tell them what he plans at every turn so they can easily counter it.
3...?
4. Profit!

I mean seriously, I get that he doesn´t rely on deception like Belial. But theres a difference between not trying to deceive your enemies and simply helping them counter your plans.
Thats not tactial, only retarded.

Seccondly theres a minor detail with Kariya in the spider cave during act I. She´s stuck in a web and is terrified. Perfetly reasonable. When you free her she begs that you leave the cave right away cause its a terrible place, still what you´d expect. But then she sloooowly walks out of the cave cool as ice. What gives? Why not give her a running animation? It´s not like there isnt any female NPCs with running animations in the game, just use one of them.
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I think the thing with Azmodan is simply the angels are not exactly expert tacticans themselves. I mean Diablo basicly knocked on the door and they flooded Heaven. If your enemy is playing checkers why play chess, if that makes sense. He didn't need to be complicated, all he had to do is throw forces at them until they crumbled. Also, Azmodan was the ascept of pride meaning why should he hide his plans, you can't stop him anyways at least thats the way he sees it.
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That is a reasonable explanation to his actions. However, it does not explain why he is portrayed as such a brilliant battlefield commander. I don´t see how it helps the plot to describe a charater one way and them have him act in a completely different manner.
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Bad writing. There isn't really any other major explanation.

The writers either have no idea what a war is, or they're just bad. Or both. Most likely both.
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Didn't read Sun Tzu
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
05/30/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Skallewag
That is a reasonable explanation to his actions. However, it does not explain why he is portrayed as such a brilliant battlefield commander. I don´t see how it helps the plot to describe a charater one way and them have him act in a completely different manner.


He's a tactician in the way that you set up something in advance. Look at what Azmodan did:

1. He lured the Soulstone to Bastion Keep by making sure the heroes knew he was going to be there.

2. He made way for his demons, who are endless, who constantly stream from Arreat, effectively giving him unlimited troops.

3. He had Ghom the Larder spoil the Keep's entire food supply, thus setting the soldiers of the keep on a time limit before they starve.

4. He erected a gate to his command point so strong that it required and Archangel to open it.

Azmodan set all the pieces in motion. He was ensured victory. You couldn't get through that gate so he and his forces were safe. His troops would keep coming, meaning that no matter how many you killed, you'd make no progress. And if you managed to hold him back for a couple days, you'd starve to death.

Azmodan had won that fight. The actual war was a formality. The only reason you actually win is because you had Tyrael with you, who was able to actually open the gate. Something Azmodan could not have foreseen.

If Tyrael wasn't with you, you couldn't have gotten to Azmodan and fought him. And at that point eventually you would have lost at one point and time. Be it an hour later. A day later. Or three days later. All Azmodan had to do is sit back and wait.
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Apparently Bastion Keep would have been too much for Imperius to handle even with angels as soldiers. So I just think that the angels have a lack of tactical prowess. Especially since their leader is a hot headed, front liner who prefers to be at the head instead of thinking what to do first.
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Thank goodness for Melyria, good explanation.

Too bad the rest of the dummies couldn't figure that one out.
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Well it was a brilliant setup for the invasion, you are absolutley right about that. But regarding the gate it wasn´t exactly that it required and archangel to destroy it. Tyriel was human when he smashed it with his angelic sword. You could argue that he could not have forseen that the sword would pop up like that. But belial had made a lot of fuss about the sword. Now the story doesn´t make it exactly clear to what extent Belial and Azmodan are cooperating, but if they are cooperating then Azmodan obviously hasn´t been paying atention to the fact Belial was chasing this very special sword and sloppy teamwork isn´t tactical.
If they were not cooperating to the extent where they share plans and ideas its even less tactical of Azmodan not to keep an eye on things. He was hardly counting on Belial getting owned in single combat by a mortal. So if Belial would have gotten his hands on the BSS, was Azmodan hoping that Belial would say something like "hey, lets share this awesome power equally".

Long story short, his setup had many smart points but it also had a lot of holes. Also his confidence cant have all depended on his gate keeping him safe since he continues his taunting in the exact same manner after it´s smashed.
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Kariya was originally going to be the mystic artisan most likely. So ya she was completely pointless to add to the story after they axed her.
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05/31/2012 01:12 AMPosted by Skallewag
Tyriel was human when he smashed it with his angelic sword.


Tyrael was an angel in a mortal form. Not a human. He never became a human.

05/31/2012 01:12 AMPosted by Skallewag
Now the story doesn´t make it exactly clear to what extent Belial and Azmodan are cooperating,


Yes it does. The story states that they do not get along and would likely not be found in the same place because they don't like to work together. It would make sense that the character's didn't share information and Belial didn't tell Azmodan about the sword... however... he does seem to have some knowledge about what's been happening. He should have known about it anyway. I wouldn't say he didn't know about the sword, but perhaps he didn't know about the limitations of the gate. Perhaps he wasn't aware that an archangel could break through it. Or it could have been a case of him underestimating the player's power so that even if he or she did manage to get passed the gate, he or she would not be capable of defeating the strongest parts of his army and himself. He was very prideful after all.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
05/31/2012 02:47 AMPosted by Elestria
Yes it does. The story states that they do not get along and would likely not be found in the same place because they don't like to work together. It would make sense that the character's didn't share information and Belial didn't tell Azmodan about the sword... however... he does seem to have some knowledge about what's been happening. He should have known about it anyway. I wouldn't say he didn't know about the sword, but perhaps he didn't know about the limitations of the gate. Perhaps he wasn't aware that an archangel could break through it. Or it could have been a case of him underestimating the player's power so that even if he or she did manage to get passed the gate, he or she would not be capable of defeating the strongest parts of his army and himself. He was very prideful after all.


Something to consider. Tyrael never went into view to kill Belial or, really, to do much of anything. It is entirely possible that Azmodan got wind of Belial's death from one of Belial's demons (Demons killed tend to respawn in hell). But because Tyrael wasn't present, all Azmodan would know about is Leah, the stone and you, the hero.
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Melyria is right, yet again.

Stop hatin' on asmodan. He prepared better than any of the other evils except diablo, and he was a lesser evil.

Us Nephalem are just dirty dirty cheaters.
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05/30/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Skallewag
That is a reasonable explanation to his actions. However, it does not explain why he is portrayed as such a brilliant battlefield commander. I don´t see how it helps the plot to describe a charater one way and them have him act in a completely different manner.


I'm not trying to defend the story but you have to look at it from his point of view and base it off what your character has accomplished so far in regards to the keep. He had the "fortress" surrounded. The humans were being greatly overwhelmed. Their hope was diminishing. His main army wasn't even on the roof of the keep. The ground forces were being so overwhelmed that demons were scaling the keeps walls. In his position you would think that victory is a sure thing.

What have you really accomplished before the invasion of the keep? You have cleared up some of the minions that made it to the top of the wall. You lit a few fires. You rose three catapults. Big deal. That's hardly enough to be seen as a threat. So he out right tells you that the walls have been breached. That may look stupid. In fact it is stupid if you look at how powerful your character is but does he really understand just how strong you are?

Again, the keep was so overwhelmed enemies were scaling the wall and making it to the top. The humans were being decimated. Despite the fires being lit. Despite the catapults being raised. He still breached the walls and still penetrated the defenses. What he didn't expect was a human who was a one man friggin' army. That could just go into the keep, single handedly, and destroy the entire horde inside along with his liutenant.

He probably thought the only way you could do so is with the help of the soldiers and manpower. Which he knew you didn't have based on the numbers. He probably thought you might be worth about 30 soldiers. Which is impressive but not enough to defeat his army. In fact you were an army.
Edited by Reslin#1758 on 5/31/2012 1:55 PM PDT
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05/30/2012 12:20 PMPosted by KewlImp
I think the thing with Azmodan is simply the angels are not exactly expert tacticans themselves. I mean Diablo basicly knocked on the door and they flooded Heaven.


Diablo plays zerg in starcraft 2.
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The Barbarian sums up Azmodan best, imo..

Kormac: They say Azmodan is the best battle commander in all of the burning hells.

Barbarian (in a casual voice): His minions fall like twigs in the wind. Some commander he is.
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The Barbarian sums up Azmodan best, imo..

Kormac: They say Azmodan is the best battle commander in all of the burning hells.

Barbarian (in a casual voice): His minions fall like twigs in the wind. Some commander he is.


Which kind of refers back to my point. The reason Azmodan seems so bad is because your character is so strong. You cleave through entire hordes. If your character was simply an extremely skilled human and wasn't a nephalem. He'd be able to tell you whatever he likes. It wouldn't change anything.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
05/31/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Delta
Barbarian (in a casual voice): His minions fall like twigs in the wind. Some commander he is.


He's employing shock troops surrounded by canon fodder. This is true because Azmodan wasn't even fighting at full force. He could've sent waves of Phasebeasts and Succubi, his prized soldiers, but what would the point be? Why risk having your favored servants killed when you can throw 100 fallen at it instead of 1 phasebeast?

Also, Siegebeasts are confirmed to require 100 soldiers just to kill. That really isn't 'twig' territory.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
05/31/2012 02:03 PMPosted by Reslin
Which kind of refers back to my point. The reason Azmodan seems so bad is because your character is so strong. You cleave through entire hordes. If your character was simply an extremely skilled human and wasn't a nephalem. He'd be able to tell you whatever he likes. It wouldn't change anything.


He already could tell you whatever he wanted and it wouldnt' change anything. A nephalim wasnt' going to get through his demon gate. You could wipe out 100 demons and by the time you done so, 100 more would have taken their place. And you can't get to Azmodan to stem the flow, so all you're doing is tiring yourself out.

So its a combination. Azmodan seems 'bad' because your character(s) are literaly work 100 well trained soldiers each and because Tyrael had enough raw force in El'druin to break down his gate, the only reason you're able to even come face-to-face with the Lesser Evil.
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