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Demon Hunter's Archery Passive
15% Damage to Bows 50% Crit Damage to Xbows 10% Crit Chance to Hand Xbow (main hand only) Calculations are spread over 20 hits 1) Base stats – 1 damage, 5% crit, 50% crit damage No Specialization – 19 hits at 1 damage, 1 crit at 1.5 damage = 19 + 1.5 = 20.5 Bows – 19 hits at 1.15 damage + 1 Crit at 1.725 = 19*1.15 + 1.725 = 23.575 Xbow – 19 hits at 1 damage + 1 Crit at 2 = 19 + 2 = 21 Hand Xbow – 17 hits at 1 damage + 3 Crits at 1.5 = 17 + 3*1.5 = 21.5 Bows – 23.575 / 20.5 – 15% damage increase Xbows –21 / 20.5 – 2.5% damage increase Hand Xbows – 21.5 / 20.5 – 5% damage increase 2) High crit chance – 1 damage, 20% crit, 50% crit damage No Specialization – 16 hits at 1 damage, 4 crit at 1.5 damage = 16 + 4*1.5 = 22 Bows – 16 hits at 1.15 damage + 4 Crit at 1.725 = 16*1.15 + 4*1.725 = 25.3 Xbow – 16 hits at 1 damage + 4 Crit at 2 = 16 + 4*2 = 24 Hand Xbow – 14 hits at 1 damage + 6 Crits at 1.5 = 14 + 6*1.5 = 23 Bows – 25.3 / 22 – 15% damage increase Xbows –24 / 22 – 9% damage increase Hand Xbows – 23 / 22 – 5% damage increase 3) High Crit Damage – 1 damage, 5% crit, 100% crit damage No Specialization – 19 hits at 1 damage, 1 crit at 2 damage = 19 + 2 = 21 Bows – 19 hits at 1.15 damage + 1 Crit at 2.3 = 19*1.15 + 2.3 = 24.15 Xbow – 19 hits at 1 damage + 1 Crit at 2.5 = 19 + 2.5 = 21.5 Hand Xbow – 17 hits at 1 damage + 3 Crits at 2 = 17 + 3*2 = 23 Bows – 24.15 / 21 – 15% damage increase Xbows – 21.5 / 21 – 2.5% damage increase Hand Xbows – 23 / 21 – 10% damage increase As you can see from this data Bows maintain a 15% damage increase on all scenario's, while increasing crit chance increases the effect of Xbows and increasing crit damage increases the effects of Hand Xbows 4) Really High Crit Chance – 1 damage, 50% crit, 50% crit damage No Specialization – 10 hits at 1 damage, 10 crits at 1.5 damage = 10 + 1.5*10 = 25 Bows – 10 hits at 1.15 damage + 10 Crits at 1.725 = 10*1.15 + 10*1.725 = 28.75 Xbow – 10 hits at 1 damage + 10 Crit at 2 = 19 + 2.5 = 30 Hand Xbow – 8 hits at 1 damage + 12 Crits at 1.5 = 8 + 12*1.5 = 26 Bows – 28.75 / 25 – 15% damage increase Xbows – 30 / 25 – 20% damage increase Hand Xbows – 26 / 25 – 6% damage increase Values for 45% crit – Base = 24.5, Bows = 28.175, Xbows = 29 Values for 40% crit – Base = 24, Bows = 27.6, Xbows = 28 (40% crit is about when Xbows > Bows) 5) Really High Crit Damage – 1 damage, 5% crit, 200% crit damage No Specialization – 19 hits at 1 damage, 1 crit at 3 damage = 19 + 3 = 22 Bows – 19 hits at 1.15 damage + 1 Crit at 3.45 = 19*1.15 + 3.45 = 25.3 Xbow – 19 hits at 1 damage + 1 Crit at 3.5 = 19 + 3.5 = 22.5 Hand Xbow – 17 hits at 1 damage + 3 Crits at 3 = 17 + 3*3 = 26 Bows – 25.3 / 22 – 15% damage increase Xbows – 22.5 / 22 – 2% damage increase Hand Xbows – 26 / 22 – 18% damage increase Values for 400% crit damage – Base = 24, Bow = 27.6, Hand Xbows = 32, 33% damage buff From this data we can make several conclusions: First, you need approx +150% crit damage bonus for the benefit to Hand Xbows to outwiegh the benefit to Bows. Second, you need approx +35% crit chance for the bonus to Xbows to outwiegh the bonus to Bows. Third, we can conclude that 150% crit damage is = 15% crit chance (by looking at 2 and 5, increasing by by 15% crit improves base damage by ~7% and increasing by 150% crit damage does the same). From these three we find that Hand Xbows scale the best with increasing stats. +150% crit damage is = 15% crit chance, but Xbows need 35% crit chance to be better than bows. Example, we found that +35% crit = +350% crit damage, at 40% crit (5% base + 35% bonus) Xbows do just over 15% damage increase, and at 400% crit damage (50% base, +350% bonus) Hand Xbows result in a 33% damage increase. So as long as Blizz has itemized correctly and made 10% bonus crit damage = 1% crit chance on item drops stacking crit damage and rolling out the Hand Xbows would result in a higher damage increase if a Hand Xbow did the same damage as a 2h Bow. (Unfortunately this isn't the case, because dual wielding for DH's is quite useless at the moment). TL;DR > Read it, it's math that is necessary to understand what I'm saying, but if you want to take it on faith, Xbows > 2H Bows with better gear (and with Sharpshooter Passive) 
Attack speed is irrelevant, otherwise you'd have to include different damage levels for different attacks.
Attack Speed doesnt effect crit chance or crit damage, or damage. The math here is based on percentages, and percentages dont change if you do 150 hits over 10 sec doing 150 damage total, or 15 hits over 10 sec doing 150 damage total. 
Well you also forget practical considerations.. That's true, so maybe there is hope for dual wielding hand xbows. 

DW being useless isn't so much the reason but rather that 1hand weapons just have lower dps than 2h. If hand xbow had same dps as 2hand I'd be willing to bet that hand xbow + quiver would be better than DW.
It is good to see that if hand xbow has same dps as 2hands that in high end gear archery would be better with the hand xbow. 

True the extra socket might be make it so even if the weapons dps is lower by 100200 it might still be better.. The extra attask speed from DW is kind of irrelevant though because Quivers can get 20% AS while DW only gives 15% so each weapon would actually have to have 5% AS to be equal. Basically forgetting the passives for hand xbow because you can get those passives with a quiver offhand rather than DW. The weapon socket is only advantage DW has over using a quiver.


How can you possibly say atk speed is irrelevant when comparing the 3 types of bows??? If a hand crossbow can get in 10 hits while the 2h'rs get only 9 hits in, that's significant.


your base stats of "1" damage is inaccurate because it uses a normalized value for weapon DPS; they are not similar at all
also the modifiers are not just %, there are static bonuses +x "of death" can be + 286 to 667 damage. those obviously factor different considering base APS to skew DPS in lesser proportions for slow cross bows you will need to use some baselines such as Revenant bows are 380 dps Exorcists are 263 dps Hellions are 514 dps factor their APS * a pair of good mods + off_weapon damage from jewelery = a final DPS then use those numbers the bonus from Bow + archery is additive with steady aim, you should include a static buff in your evaluation such as cull of the weak or Mark of death those combinations are going to skew results; you will need to include them to see scale in practice for a more realistic picture. as a bit of * lateral utility is time based; crits per second has invaluable qualities, you just can't equate this as damage similarly to explaining the value of r/w speed% it is because he is just modeling % effects using 1 DPS on all the examples. however 1 cannot be used for an accurate evaluation.
Edited by zoid#1554 on 6/3/2012 6:03 PM PDT


Except that Damage over time is (supposedly) more or less equal. So if a hand xbow would attack 2 times as fast then instead of doing 1 damage, it would do .5, but have 40 attacks (2x as many crits) and the damage would end up the same. This is comparing percentages of damage, not real damage per attack. So a xbow that does 20 damage over 20 sec would be compared to a 2h bow that does 20 damage over 20 sec. the faster wep does more crits, but each of lower magnitude because the higher attack speed means lower damage per hit. Overall attack speed does not affect these calculations as percentages are unaffected by attack speed. 

your base stats of "1" damage is inaccurate because it uses a normalized value for weapon DPS; they are not similar at all I think what you mean is 1 cannot be used for COMPLETELY accurate data, however this is meant as a guideline, it shows the general trends of the effects of Archery based on differing stats, real data will of course differ because of the damage range on weps, but the general trend (10% crit damage = 1% crit chance, higher crit chance makes subsequent crit damage better etc) will remain the same. 

Hand crossbows have other advantages.
Higher passive crit means more discipline from nightstalker if you go that route. Dual wielding hand crossbows gives you an extra +discipline slot. You can get higher +life on it from hand crossbows. 

a more accurate piece of work is what I am suggesting, yes. the peerreview I gave explains what is missing Bows maintain a 15% damage increase on all scenario's, it's just not correct in practice due to it being additive with steady aim archery with a bow is a 12.5% multiplicative effect when using steady aim <shrug> i'd say at least half of all dh's use steady aim?
Edited by zoid#1554 on 6/3/2012 6:29 PM PDT


It does seem like 2 very well itemized hand crossbows both with sockets will out damage any Bow or Xbox...The main problem IMO is have you seen the prices on those Hand Xbows lol? 50 mil a piece for a very good one.


this. you dont need math to realize that dual wielding 1h xbows would be ideal. the problem is that the dps equivalent 1h xbow costs at least 100x as much  and you need TWO of them! edit: maybe 100x is an exaggeration  its still a lot
Edited by w00dberry#1617 on 6/3/2012 6:46 PM PDT

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