Diablo® III

Your not alone monks.

Barbarians feel you pain, as do WD's who'd like to rely on their pets like a d2 necro did.

Its rough all around for anyone getting within range of this melee blender.
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Barbarians are WAY worse off. At least Monks have a ton of heals and CC. Barbs have... armor. Yay. Get to be three-shotted instead of two-shotted. Woo.

Witch Doctors I have no idea about. I'm planning on rolling one after I get to Inferno with my current Monk.
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Barb's will be the best class in the game in 6 months though. We'll still be struggling most likely.
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Barbarians are WAY worse off. At least Monks have a ton of heals and CC. Barbs have... armor. Yay. Get to be three-shotted instead of two-shotted. Woo.

Witch Doctors I have no idea about. I'm planning on rolling one after I get to Inferno with my current Monk.


While i won't dispute the terribadness of Barbs, this shouldn't be a "Who's worse game", given that its root cause is the way in which melee is handled in this game.

Melee needs to realize that they're in the same boat and that there's unity there.

WD's have good DPS spells: The issue is that WD's who want to be all about their pets. Its the melee train problem, in that pets get rolled just like us, even Worse even since their AI can't avoid simple mechanics like we can.
Once you get into act 2 inferno, there's no amount of scaling that can keep them from being 1 shotted.
Edited by aleksandor#1289 on 5/29/2012 10:26 PM PDT
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05/29/2012 10:22 PMPosted by Ahlen
Barb's will be the best class in the game in 6 months though. We'll still be struggling most likely.


Depends really. The biggest issue is the resource supply. Both we and Barbs need to be in combat to keep it up - the difference being that Barbs slowly goes down over time. And taking damage to replenish it is suicide unless you know the damage you'll take won't one or two-shot you. At least monks' supply doesn't fall, so you can kite and get a few hits in to replenish it slowly.
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Barb's will be the best class in the game in 6 months though. We'll still be struggling most likely.


Depends really. The biggest issue is the resource supply. Both we and Barbs need to be in combat to keep it up - the difference being that Barbs slowly goes down over time. And taking damage to replenish it is suicide unless you know the damage you'll take won't one or two-shot you. At least monks' supply doesn't fall, so you can kite and get a few hits in to replenish it slowly.


This is a non-issue for barbs actually. NO ONE uses our resource: Fury just sucks BALLS late game.

Every single barb will be using Cooldown abilities and frenzy, with Beserker rage-The passive skill that gives you a damage boost at maximum fury- (unless they swap BR for another defensive passive skill). T
he only abilities that use Fury are the 120 second CD ones (Wrath of the beserker and earthquake) meaning that Fury is a non-resource.

The only thing that Barbarians use as a "resource" are Cooldowns.
Because of this, we don't run into the same issue of having to Hit foes to get our resources up; We just kite till ignore pain comes off CD so we won't get smeared in 1 second (And that's not an exageration in time).
Edited by aleksandor#1289 on 5/29/2012 10:33 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Heh. Just like I said back in Beta... Monks have the absolutely worst resource system in the game. Barbs aren't reliant on Fury, they're reliant on CD's.

*sigh*

Anyway, yeah, it shouldn't be a class thing, it's a melee versus range thing. Range characters are the Haves. Melee the Have Nots.

Again, anyone who wasn't a tool saw this coming. They can do twice as much with half as much as we can... heck with less than that.

The funniest part is that most of the anti-ranged affixes they put in for elites are actually equally as punishing OR MORE SO for melee than for ranged. Jailer's no problem if you have Dashing Strike, but without it monks are hosed. Waller can be gotten around, but the range that they do it at is so small that most ranged characters NEVER see a wall... unless the mob also has teleport. Grenadier is just as nasty for melee as it is for ranged, the only difference being that we can take a few hits because of us building for mitigation.

The system is pretty borked right now... but I'll never give up on my monk!
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05/29/2012 10:59 PMPosted by Zanathos
The system is pretty borked right now... but I'll never give up on my monk!


^ This
The game just came out guys give it some times. IMO monks are gonna rock in PVP :)
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Flat out, i like melee characters, always have always will.

what upsets me is the complete lack of understanding about how poorly the melee gameplay is. from how poorly the monk and barbarian mitigate damage, to the frankly piss poor resistances system. my monk can get 1334 resist to all when duoing with a barbarian. and die within 2-3 seconds of poison, molten(while being forced to chase running mobs), or desecrate on anything inferno acts 2-4. i said it since i got into nightmare that elemental resistances were either A. Broken or B. completely useless.

my demon hunter and wizard friends do more dps while wearing full magic find gear except weapon / offhand, than i can do with my best gear on. in my personal opinion, i firmly believe that the class designers are biased to ranged classes.
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I'm in a team of 4 with monk(me), barb, wiz and DH. << Inferno

05/30/2012 12:08 AMPosted by Logikalfury
how poorly the monk and barbarian mitigate damage, to the frankly piss poor resistances system


I will have to disagree with you Logikalfury, the game design is not meant for you as monk to tank especially not while standing in desecration -_-, let the Barb in party tank with his high armor and resist . Granted he can't heal himself nor will he be able to tank if he gets lynched by 3-4+ mobs, but that's where you come in as monk to heal and crowd control. Instead of complaining about unable to tank try changing your play style a bit, IMO monks are off-tanks with awesome CC/healing/buffer not the main tank. Protect your party members who are capable of dps better than you.

my demon hunter and wizard friends do more dps while wearing full magic find gear except weapon / offhand, than i can do with my best gear on. in my personal opinion, i firmly believe that the class designers are biased to ranged classes


The dh in party is my brother so I frequently watch how he plays and I can tell you that while they do have insane dps they are also squishy, one hit would mean KO for them. Btw why the hell should you be able to do more dps than wiz and dh? If you could then all wiz and dh would reroll to monk because monks can heal, take hits, and have CC. <_<
Edited by Ryujiou#2833 on 5/30/2012 1:14 AM PDT
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I will have to disagree with you Logikalfury, the game design is not meant for you as monk to tank especially not while standing in desecration -_-, let the Barb in party tank with his high armor and resist . Granted he can't heal himself nor will he be able to tank if he gets lynched by 3-4+ mobs, but that's where you come in as monk to heal and crowd control. Instead of complaining about unable to tank try changing your play style a bit, IMO monks are off-tanks with awesome CC/healing/buffer not the main tank. Protect your party members who are capable of dps better than you.


funny thing about monks that i have noticed, they tend to pull aggro from the barbarian, even when he uses his so called "taunt" the mobs will just flop back onto my monk after a few seconds. if you have a legitimate solution to this, please feel free to post your input.

The dh in party is my brother so I frequently watch how he plays and I can tell you that while they do have insane dps they are also squishy, one hit would mean KO for them. Btw why the hell should you be able to do more dps than wiz and dh? If you could then all wiz and dh would reroll to monk because monks can heal, take hits, and have CC. <_<


if you read more closely, i claimed that a dh/wiz do more damage in their full MF gear compared to my normal gear, which their mf gear does not have nearly the stats that their normal gear has. meaning they are exponentially doing more dps than monk.

as far as those classes being squishy... act4 izual and his summoned adds pretty much one shot my monk as well. i have roughly in my current dps gear about 20-30% the dps of my friends demon hunter. while both classes essentially get one shotted.
now i have to say that inferno in general has some very wide ranges of spike damage. and i also have to say server stability and lag have offered up a large portion of frustration with "rubber banding" lag which has killed my monk many many times while trying to kite, invuln/melee attack, then trying to escape rubber band back into melee range and die.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0

as far as those classes being squishy... act4 izual and his summoned adds pretty much one shot my monk as well. i have roughly in my current dps gear about 20-30% the dps of my friends demon hunter. while both classes essentially get one shotted.


This right here. This is the problem. Honestly, I think that 20 to 30% is a gross understatement. DH's and Wizzies in Act 2+ know that getting hit once is death, so they hardly bother to gear for armor/resistances/vitality... no matter what they do, they'll never be able to take hits so they go all out damage. Monks and barbs HAVE to gear for those things. HAVE TO. Even people using the glass cannon monks that live or die off of SSS, Serenity, BF and other CC's need to be able to take a little damage and so have to give up offensive stats for mitigation.

The ranged classes can do better, with less, than melee classes. A LOT better with a LOT less. That's the whole problem. It's going to take a HUGE mechanic change to fix it. Right now, though, Blizzard can't see this, or is refusing to acknowledge it.

*shrug*
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That's one thing i have to admit is crazy; Yeah, most of those "Anti-ranged" affixes are almost completely anti-Melee too. Melee has to kite now too like crazy: So what do you think happens as soon as melee tries to run away? Those mortars start going off at CLOSE range (relatively) and jailer still screws us too.

If melee could actually, i don't know, STAY in melee and not rely on running so much to survive, only creeping in when we can cheese defensive CDs or Stuns, then Fast, vortex, jailer MIGHT hurt ranged more than us: But as is, they are just as anathema to us as to them.
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