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Why would anyone use it? I'm very curious. With monks getting so much dodge you're only getting hit about half the time, and then add in the melee reduction in damage taken, our armor, and the fact that the mantra itsself only hits for a percentage. I'm trying to understand why this mantra exists when every single thing you do stacks against it.
I think Indignation and Collateral Damage seem to be the only viable runes for this, and even still why would I ever want to run this mantra over any of the other mantras?
MoC intimidation is nice too, depending on how difficult the content is relative to your gear. It's sort of a compromise between moE/Hard target and MoC/overawe.
But.. is the dmg reflected 'before' or 'after' dmg reductions?
After damage reductions, otherwise you would be reflecting more damage to them than they're actually doing to you.
The amount of defense you get from Hard Target/Time of Need is worth so much more damage than measly reflection.
I would rather use MoE:Backlash than Ret:Transgression.
58 Draenei Death Knight
I can tell you when it'll be useful. PvP.
Demon hunter goes glass cannon? Pop this sucker and watch him explode! Just because it's not useful now does not mean it's stupid. Wait for PvP and be grateful we have it.
Edited by Feddy#1527 on 6/6/2012 10:45 AM PDT
I'll give that a shot. My first reaction is that Backlash is pretty useless for your ranged party members, but the AoE damage is really appealing.
I've never used Retribution - willing to bet this is the majority position here on the Monk forums. However someone on Reddit made a thorns barb that was already into Act 2 Inferno a while back so I suspect there are very viable builds. Imagine how cheap it would be to buy AH gear ....
Edited by Rashidi#1341 on 6/6/2012 11:03 AM PDT
The idea of combining it with a thorns barb is a fun thought. Also, I find the attack speed from transgression to be intriguing especially with the upcoming nerf to attack speed on gear. I think it might be interesting to play around with.
Also, the free spirit from Against All Odds might work nicely with a Transendence build. Do we know what the chance to get the free spirit is from this?
I've been thinking about this lately. If I had infinite gold to spend on gear it would be easy to test out a theory...
I like the idea of a monk that generates and spends spirit very quickly. I'm only barely sticking my toes in the waters of Act III inferno in groups and Act II solo, so take this all with a hefty dose of "this might never work." Basic build concept:
Daibo with spirit generation of at least 1.9 AND life on spirit spent of around 50
Spirit Stones with spirit generation of at least 2.0 and life on spirit spent.
Life Steal (does this work with Mantra of Retribution?), Life on Hit, Crit, Vitality, and Resist All.
That... sounds expensive. But the goal is to have a deep life pool, enough mitigation to take a few hits, and the ability to constantly generate and spend spirit to replenish that life. Yes, I know Life Steal is heavily decreased in Inferno so perhaps that's not at all viable. Still... what would it take to be able to breathe damage in and breathe life back out? Note the crit for spirit generation on Quickening is also very useful for Wave of Light's stun proc. I've never been able to get enough crit to see if this is truly a viable way to play.
Why a Daibo over two one-handers with spirit regen? Um... I like the Spirit generation aspect of Guardian's Path. No reason besides that. It's probably not worth it but I can dream. If someone tweaks this and makes it work, I'll still be happy.
It's interesting, if Life Steal actually works with MoR, then a hit from a mob would return .4 * .2 * LS * Dmg, or .08 * LS * Dmg. With a LS of 10%, that would result in .008 * Dmg being returned as life, or .8% added mitigation, 1.6% mitigation when the "Activated" portion of MoR is up, or 1.2% mitigation if using the Retaliation rune. How high can Life Steal go, anyway?
Other reasons that Mantra of Retribution is probably not viable, however:
Ground effects like plague, desecrate, molten, and arcane sentry aren't reflected as far as I know. Unless you have the ranged rune on MoR, mortar isn't reflected either. That's a lot of damaging affixes on a mob that wouldn't be affected.
Life Steal might not proc on MoR. That doesn't completely make the idea pointless, but it does take away from the effectiveness.
One With Everything and Sieze the Initiative aren't part of the build. Take damage to deal damage and regain life... but it probably can't be balanced out even though I'd really like to find a way to make it work.
So there you have it. I will probably nerf myself into oblivion trying to make this happen but it seems like it would be fun.
I'm wondering why you put Exploding Palm in that build. Is it so you can kite with that rune?
If this worked with ground effects that would be so wonderful. It does sound like a fun build. I think it's worth experimenting with these little used abilities - Blizz carefully chose and balanced all of these abilities for one reason or another and just because we as players haven't figured out how to make something work doesn't mean there isn't a use for it.
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