Diablo® III

"I want HC to be less punishing" pros/cons

I know there have been several posts asking for HC to be less punishing. Usually these kinds of posts happen shortly after someone has lost a HC toon to lag or a disconnect. Its a pretty rotten feeling.

Now, my personal beliefs are that if you optimize you computer correctly and keep it clean, and don't use a crappy connection, these instances are going to extremely rare. But another thread got me thinking about ways to handle these completely unfair situations.

The first is to simply suck it up and accept that disconnects and lag are part of hardcore play. This is really the only way to handle it under the current conditions. Shrug your shoulders, and change your views to enjoy the journey instead of the destination. (My preferred choice)

Another common suggestion is to have blizzard come up with some kind of complex or high-tech disconnect protection system. Things like pausing the game automatically when the servers detect your client not responding, having the server force your character to run towards the nearest exit automatically, etc etc.

These are a bit unrealistic, and would require some pretty crazy time investments and innovations by blizzard. I wouldn't mind something like this, but I think it falls squarely in the realm of "unlikely".

But being an old gamer, I started to remember the style of games where you were given 3 lives to get as far as you could. When you died, you were respawned back at the beginning of the level and had to do it again. In some games you could earn additional lives by getting ridiculously high scores.

So I thought to myself, why not apply this concept to diablo. Instead of a single life, you get three. Once they're gone, that's it, done. No way to earn additional lives. This would give people a slight margin of error to handle rare cases of disconnects or lag-deaths, while still keeping the ultimate penalty of an unrecoverable character if you continually screw up.

Obviously the number of lives could be tweaked, and I would be very much in favor of keeping the original option of hardcore mode with only a single life. But for others, especially those with low skill levels or bad connections, this would seem like something of a fair compromise.

The obvious response that some of you guys are going to spew out is "NO! GO PLAY SOFTCORE, WEAKSAUCE!" I think this is more than a little unfair, and not thought out very well. The truth of the matter is that we are forced to play online. Some form of mitigation for dealing with the problems of online play should exists. It's simply a matter of what form it takes.

Comments? Arguments? Lets hear em!
Edited by Sircowdog#1207 on 6/5/2012 4:08 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Any 'fix' that Blizzard tried to implement to mitigate death due to lag/disconnect/etc, simply opens up the door for explotation by simply pausing your game if you know you're going to die and unplugging your computer, so it's unworkable.

Unfortunately, the only option, unfair as it is, is to simply accept that (as you say) disconnects and lag are a part of hardcore play.

Before starting HC, one should ask themselves if they would be unreasonably upset by getting killed due to factors beyond their control. If yes, then I'm afraid SC is the way to go.
Reply Quote
Alternately, they could make the HC character turn into a SC character upon death if the account has space and the user elects to do so. It makes HC less punishing, which most of us would hate, but it also makes people feel less like they got screwed if they lag out and die. I dunno... I personally feel like you take the risk as part of playing HC, it happens to everyone.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Death Knight
8190
I haven't lost a single character to lag, nor experienced any system destroying lag at all since release. My computer is new, as of the week of D3's release, and I have a great internet connection with anti-spyware technologies employed locally and at my ISP.

Stop being bad :)

Edit: Oh and btw, my ISP is the one being sued by Blizzard for throttling wow. Haha
Edited by Versus#1800 on 6/5/2012 4:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Fate is capricious and unfair. Those who choose to play in Fate's playground must accept the consequences.

Any "3 lives" rule, or move-character to softcore rule, or literally any other rule except final and absolute death would eliminate the pure rush of HC. The HC rush comes ENTIRELY from the brutality and finality of death.

Any technical solution could be gamed, would be expensive to administer, and would cheapen HC as people's deaths (survivals? resurrections?) were called into question.

Best solution? Do not change HC, change the gamer.

Let HC weed out those who do not have the temperament for it.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
8645
06/05/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Sircowdog
Now, my personal beliefs are that if you optimize you computer correctly and keep it clean, and don't use a crappy connection, these instances are going to extremely rare. But another thread got me thinking about ways to handle these completely unfair situations.

No no no. Sorry but this is not true. Gaming computer with highest speed internet possible in the area (used for a home office in the same household) and I have definitely experienced a few of those random 10+ second lag spikes. It's on blizzards end.

edit: by a few i'd say it's happened around 6-8 times during my 90+ hours leveling my barb (my non hardcore barb thankfully, because it killed me almost every time) I wouldn't call that "extremely rare", i'd call extremely rare something like once or twice at most
Edited by Fruhauf#1708 on 6/5/2012 4:52 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
12980
Dying in HC should be because you made a mistake, not because of server instability. But it's not going to change.
Reply Quote
If any change at all needs to be implemented, it's a simple extra-warning box that says "you acknowledge that matters out of your hand such as latency issues may arise, resulting in death. regardless of cause, death is permanent and no action will be taken to revive or restore lost characters or items".

You know what you're getting into. If you can't accept losing something to lag, then play softcore. HC in this game is already softened greatly compared to D2; you keep all your gold, everything in your stash, and artisan progression. With kulle runs you can safely make it back to 60 in a day. As far as I'm concerned death in HC is just a really long respawn timer and huge repair bill, depending on how good your gear was.

Make like a Metapod and harden the **** up!
Reply Quote
06/05/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Sircowdog
suck it up and accept that disconnects and lag are part of hardcore play.


Also my preferred choice. And most likely (and hopefully) Blizzard's only choice.
Reply Quote
06/05/2012 04:50 PMPosted by Secondtime
Dying in HC should be because you made a mistake, not because of server instability. But it's not going to change.


That's true but the internet has never been entirely stable...
Reply Quote
True hardcores have 2 different internet connections and a router to support it. I can unplug one modem and I'm unphased.

Get on my tier.
Reply Quote
I like the status quo. It's simple and it's clear.

You do occasionally lose characters to lag, but that's also a learning experience; it is possible to play as if lag will strike anytime, to factor that into builds and playstyle choices, and to reduce lag deaths in that way.

That's always been part of the challenge of playing hardcore.
Edited by candlelight#1376 on 6/5/2012 5:18 PM PDT
Reply Quote
None of this would be a problem if they would allow HC characters to play offline. As it is, there are already enough variables that could possibly cause you to lose your character: power outage, BSoD, video card frying, etc. Why add ISP or battle.net connection issues to that list?

The more you play your HC character, the more likely it is that you will die to something that isn't your fault, particularly connection problems. Put certain restrictions such as not allowing loot that was dropped in offline mode to be put on the AH, or whatever restrictions are necessary to not allow us to potentially lose hundreds of hours of work for something that we had absolutely no control over.
Reply Quote
06/05/2012 05:17 PMPosted by candlelight
You do occasionally lose characters to lag, but that's also a learning experience; it is possible to play as if lag will strike anytime, to factor that into builds and playstyle choices, and to reduce lag deaths in that way.


How is that exactly? If you have aggro'd a monster and you disconnect, you will die, period, unless you are playing on normal with inferno gear or something.
Reply Quote
I think the 2 modes we have are plenty. If you want more of a challenge, but don't want to go the hardcore Full Monty just do whatever you feel you want to do as a *personal* challenge. Go play softcore and give yourself 3 lives. If you die a third time then delete the character. All it takes is some discipline.

Just look thru the forum and you'll find several "challenge" type threads that people are doing on their own (no vitality, only white/gray items, etc). These people aren't asking Blizzard to add (and debug and maintain) yet another game mode. They're just doing it as a personal challenge. You don't need the game to enforce special rules, Just Do It!

tl;dr - If you want more of a challenge from SC, challenge *yourself*, not Blizzard.
Reply Quote
Unfortunately there is no fair alternative. If one is ever discovered, I am confident Blizzard would take it with open arms.

That said, if you cannot tolerate losing a character to lag or disconnect, hard core is not for you. It is a risk we all take. The benefit to hard core is getting far means you can sell stuff for money and starting over is less painful because you still have your stash, black smith, and jewelcrafting levels. This is more than diablo 2 had.
Reply Quote
You do occasionally lose characters to lag, but that's also a learning experience; it is possible to play as if lag will strike anytime, to factor that into builds and playstyle choices, and to reduce lag deaths in that way.


How is that exactly? If you have aggro'd a monster and you disconnect, you will die, period, unless you are playing on normal with inferno gear or something.
One of the simplest is that if you're playing solo and lag hits, press the "escape" key and wait until you connection has a chance to stabilze, before continuing. Learn to recognize the signs of lag and don't initiate new battles when until your connection settles down. Also, don't play "on the edge"; a few examples:

1. Don't nip in when a tree drops a poison bud, to pick something up. Instead, go fight other stuff and come back for gear, or wait til the poison cloud dies down.
2. You know you could finish that battle with about 25% life to spare, but you back out and try not to bring yourself quite so close to dying.
3. Let the goblin go, if pursing it would mean putting your character at risk.

Most important of all, though, is to recall a couple of steps back from when your character was helpless, when lag struck, and to think about what you could have arranged differently. There's no proof against lag and thinking about how you could have done better to avoid that result won't always produce an insight. But, the notion that players are helpless in the face of lag, and can take no (reasonable) steps to protect their characters, is an overstatement.
Edited by candlelight#1376 on 6/5/2012 7:43 PM PDT
Reply Quote
06/05/2012 05:17 PMPosted by candlelight
You do occasionally lose characters to lag, but that's also a learning experience; it is possible to play as if lag will strike anytime, to factor that into builds and playstyle choices, and to reduce lag deaths in that way.

Really depends on the class. Ones that can't tank don't really have this option.

I've had a few lag scares, and a single disconnect since release. It doesn't really matter if you have a great connection or not, because it's the Internet. I do not think there is any completely reliable way to prevent it, so we will likely never see anything other than a possible reduction of the 10 second timeout.

For the people who have lost chars to lag/disconnect, it is truly an unfortunate and frustrating way to die and I am sympathetic to their distress, but even when it does eventually happen to me, the bottom line is that this is HC, RIP.
Reply Quote
06/05/2012 04:24 PMPosted by Xerxes
Alternately, they could make the HC character turn into a SC character upon death if the account has space and the user elects to do so. It makes HC less punishing, which most of us would hate, but it also makes people feel less like they got screwed if they lag out and die. I dunno... I personally feel like you take the risk as part of playing HC, it happens to everyone.


Actually, this is probably the best solution I've heard yet. It lets people make a choice to continue playing their character, but still carries the penalty of losing your HC status. Your HC character is still dead, and replaced with a SC one. It would let true HC players keep the prestige of never having been killed even once, as well.

I haven't lost a single character to lag, nor experienced any system destroying lag at all since release. My computer is new, as of the week of D3's release, and I have a great internet connection with anti-spyware technologies employed locally and at my ISP.

Stop being bad :)


Neither have I, but that doesn't mean other people haven't. Our own personal experience with the game is not conclusive evidence.
Edited by Sircowdog#1207 on 6/5/2012 10:28 PM PDT
Reply Quote
06/05/2012 04:14 PMPosted by Zabraxis
Any 'fix' that Blizzard tried to implement to mitigate death due to lag/disconnect/etc, simply opens up the door for explotation by simply pausing your game if you know you're going to die and unplugging your computer, so it's unworkable.


This is the first argument I see every time (barring L2P noobs) and I just cant help but think WHO CARES. HC is completely optional done for your own enjoyment. So if some kid wants to play softcore on the HC servers that affects me way way way less then repeatedly losing characters to lag.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]