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I would say DHs may actually be the weakest class. Sure, they do amazing single target DPS. Sure, they have decent snares. But they are also the only class without an armor or resist bonus on a skill. Monks may have the best resist bonus. Barbs have a resist, armor, and LOH bonus skill. Wizards have energy armor/FA or Prismatic, plus DS.
you gotta be good at something
much better than being mediocre in everything
Edited by Harusame#1590 on 6/1/2012 9:36 AM PDT
the only thing i read hear was: i heard that someone told me
as for who's stronger, it doesn't matter.
last time i've checked this, game wasn't competitive.
as someone who has both, demon huntress and wizard, in inferno i have to say, that i like wiz more.
wiz can just cast bliz and hydra and wittle the enemies down.
not being able to be ohkoed is a big plus too (granted i haven killed diablo on both classes yet)
dh has to stand still to deal damage.
i don't know how people use sharp shooter in inferno at all.
archery is a must have and steady aim imho too.
that leaves one passive, which i use for acrobatics, which gives a huge suvivability boost.
It's true Demon Hunters have the highest DPS of all the classes. After all, they should, as they have literally the worst survivability of all the classes, and the competition for second-worst isn't particularly close.
Wizard's base attribute automatically improves resistances. On top of that, you have Blur, which reduces all incoming melee damage by 20%. Teleport not only allows you to escape being walled in, but it also can have its cooldown reset with the right passive ability the second you get touched (as every mob in Inferno knocks off over 10-15% of your health). Try and see if DH's Vault is even half as effective.
Wizard also has a ton of "Fire and Forget" abilities like Hydra, Blizzard, Meteor, etc., and can even kite in the process thanks to Temporal Flux. There is a similar strategy that Demon Hunters have access to, but it requires dropping Caltrops (which do way less damage than Hydra/Blizzard) and stutter-stepping their Hungering Arrow/Ele Arrow shots.
Point is, we have it just as badly as you do, if not worse. There are 10 Demon Hunters out there that are putting up over 100K DPS out there, true. But there are probably a handful of Wizards out there as well that do not even remotely resemble anything indicative of the whole. Please stop judging the strength of a class because you watched some Justin.tv stream and actually play it yourself.
If Blizzard feels the damage output of the Demon Hunter is too high, then by all means they can nerf it. But there needs to be a ton of buffs for the class at the same time, as there's a lot of defensive abilities that are just not that useful beyond niche situations like Vault and Shadow Power.
Edited by harryfrodo#1321 on 6/1/2012 10:02 AM PDT
Demon Hunter is a functioning class. It doesnt need to be nerfed. Its still very challenging to get through Inferno on a DH without godly stats.
Other classes need to be brought up to the level of DHs for sure. Personally, I thought Wizard was already there and is comparable in its solo ability but I havent actually played a Wizard through Inferno so I cant say for sure.
I can't understand why the hell everyone is crying for nerfs and complaining about other classes being OP? If you have a problem with other classes outdamaging you, why wouldn't you want your class upgraded? IMO Barbs need a huge boost and Monks need one too.
unsure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but as someone who has a DH alt, i can tell you why DHs have such bloated damage numbers.
increases critical strike rate by 3% every second, and resets after 1 second of landing a critical hit.
Those that post their absurd dps numbers just have sharpshooter on and sitting at base until their critical strike rate hits 100% then list their damage numbers (Which assumes that the DH permanently has 100% critical strike rate, which is not true).
In simpler words, when a DH gives you crazy numbers (and you know approximately how undergeared he is), just tell him to stop !@#$%ing the damage stat and remove sharp shooter for a more accurate comparison.
But ultimately i still agree that DHs are ahead of the other classes but only slightly.
DH attack power is a particular synergy between three things:
1) Nether Tentacles. Slow, AoE projectiles. They're resource cheap, high damage and hit most targets multiple times (per target, in addition to being AoE).
2) Sharpshooter. This is a passive that increases the DH's critical chance 3% per second, until it reaches 100%. It resets when a crit hit happens.
3) Bows, especially crossbows, with +critical damage stacked.
Here's what happens: You start a fight blasting a half-dozen or more Nether Tentacles. They meander toward the target. Every NT you fire will be effected by Sharpshooter, until the first one actually hits. Because it will be a few seconds before that first shot travels to the target, the first half-dozen shots will all have a 100% crit chance. They will hit most targets (especially big ones) multiple times. They're also AoE. Because you're using a slow bow with a socketed emerald, you have 200 or 300% critical damage. BOOM.
That is how DH's clear rooms in 3 seconds. That is how they burst down bosses (against a big hitbox like Belial, each NT will hit him 4 - 5 times). It's not quivers, smokescreen or their dashing good looks.
I believe it will be adjusted, as I doubt Blizzard meant Sharpshooter to interact with slow projectiles in that manner.
So I am a DH that has beat Diablo on Inferno and have only 52k DPS.
DHs are good at killing, that's it.
We are not good at taking hits..AT ALL.. even the smallest mob can 1 shot me... WDs have their little spirit get-out-of-jail mechanic if they get hit by something... granted it is only up like every 2mins or something.. but if I get hit AT ALL.. dead. PERIOD.
So--yes, DHs have lots of DMG.. but for what they get in killing power we lack in defensive capabilities. What does the DMG you ask.. primarily Nether Tentacles... they pretty much hit everything they pass through twice.. and do more dmg than auto attacking.. so it has lots of dmg.. however, it moves in a straight line.. so you have to make it work. Devouring Arrow can be pretty nice if you have to Stutter Step Micro like a Terran player using marines :P.
THAT SAID... We do have a bunch of Micro abilities that can keep us alive with the right kiting / mechanics.. SS is a no-brainer.. Vault is also top notch.. and Preparation is also like mandatory.. I really only use 2 abilities to do dmg... Elemental Arrow w/Devouring Arrow, and Nether Tentacles.. that's all the abilities I use to do dmg.. period... other than that.. it's DODGE--KITE--EVADE--SS--Whatever it takes to not get hit by ANYTHING.. and even then I still will die in Inferno..especially Act 4.
So.. complain all you want.. DH has its goods and it has its bads...
Edited by xOps#1566 on 6/3/2012 8:50 PM PDT
Some wizards have commented that DH's may get one-shot (they do), but even with Force Armor, Wizards frequently get two- or three-shot.
There is a *tremendous* difference between getting one-shot and being able to take one or two. In the latter case, you have time to react. DH's either had the Smokescreen up before the blow, or they die. They can't react to damage - they have to predict it. As I discovered when mine hit Act 2 Inferno, dying every time you make the smallest mistake is not a playstyle with universal appeal.
That and the fact that their escapes actually work.
Vault is every bit as buggy and unreliable as Teleport, and it's not an instant get out button either. Smoke Screen fails due to input delay and lag more often than you think. It's a ton of fun to see the SS flare and hear its sound effect as your corpse falls. Shadow Power/Gloom doesn't work past act 1 Inferno (though I'll admit it's great there).
After act 1 Inferno we have to shed HP because we only have one hitpoint anyway. We don't have endless supplies of Disc, despite the boring, mandatory resource pot that is Preparation with the often-failed gamble of backup plan, even if we stack high max disc (and we do). When we can't SS, we die unless we get a lucky dodge, then we die the next hit ;)
SS is messed up, yes. It's still the most powerful ability in the game, even post-nerf and with the fact that the aggro drop doesn't really work anymore. And it encourages us to run low HP builds which Blizz doesn't like, judging by what they did to you guys. We focus on pure damage and low hp, much as you guys did early on.
We have 4 abilities we pretty much all use in Inferno, and it's not like Prep/backup is exactly compelling gameplay. We have few decent passive options, much as you do; though we may have fewer that are laughably bad. And those few decent options we have are actually quite good. Your passives are lackluster. =(
As for you guys....
Blizzard has utterly screwed your class over with nerfs which have broken some of your abilities rather than doing anything to actually fix what Blizzard saw as problems with you. They handled CM poorly and as far as I'm aware they still haven't even told you how they intend it to work. And it's crap that they did that. Especially when your own players suggested fixes which would have...actually fixed the issues with the ability.
There are very real problems with your class, and you don't deserve to be ignored by Blizz.
I'm hoping that with the balance pass they claim they'll be doing "soon", they'll fix CM to a more functional state for you, fix issues with escapes for both our classes, make a Melee build viable for you guys again (it's so stupid that they give you all those short-range abilities but made it so you can't use them), and give DH a reason to consider vitality/defenses at the expense of damage...especially if Blizz holds to their position that avoiding melee hits through quick movement isn't how they intend the game to be played.
All of the classes need some work, not the kneejerk bandaids Blizz has done so far.
Edited by Tiakatt#1643 on 6/3/2012 9:12 PM PDT
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