Diablo® III

Dual Wield vs. 2 HandedQuiver

Im a DH with Sharpshooter passive. For now, I use dual wielding xbows, both with +50% crit dmg also both with emeralds, so around +100%crit dmg each. I've been told 2-hand+quiver is better for endgame and inferno tho. I wanna know why ? Thank you.
Reply Quote
Posts: 218
I've just started researching this myself and was wondering the same thing. A quick inspection of the auction house reveals that the 2-handed weapons seem to reach higher DPS. On the other hand, 2-handed bows and crossbows don't seem to included any Max Discipline/Hatred Regen bonuses, while 1-handed crossbows and quivers do. With 1-handed crossbows, the bat companion, and Marked for Death with the hatred regen rune (forgot the name), you can turn Elemental Arrow into your primary/only attack with the absurd regen rate you get, and then fill your other slots with stuff to eat the massive Discipline reserves you have (this gets even further out of control if you use Preparation). Probably not worth it in the end, but there are possibilities out there.

So I suppose it all depends on what kind of stats each weapon type is capable of rolling.
Reply Quote
I was just about to ask this question myself, I heard a while ago that 2 handed crossbows were the way to go so I have just stuck with it since like level 40. I was just wondering if you had 2 1 handed Xbows with 60% crit damage and the 10% crit bonus if it would be worth it.
Reply Quote
Bump! Great posts so far, need some theorycraft here :)
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Warlock
9275
Posts: 158
You need 2 1 handed crossbows of similar damage for it to be worth it, it will probably cost you more gold, and people tend to value burst over sustained dmg(ie 2h, vs 1h).
Reply Quote
If you get two amazing 1H XBOWs, its better than a 2H XBOW. I think a 1H XBOW with a quiver is actually better though. Not sure, I only use 2H's.
Reply Quote
I used to have 2x Hxbows, but recently changed to 2H bow+ quiver, ruby in bow, emerald in quiver, with my items i changed to, resulted in about +300 dps. Needless to say, it was worth it, 2xhxbow would eat hatred too fast, I recommend bow and quiver
Reply Quote
06/01/2012 08:47 PMPosted by Spawn
If you get two amazing 1H XBOWs, its better than a 2H XBOW. I think a 1H XBOW with a quiver is actually better though. Not sure, I only use 2H's.


or get an amazing bow and then is better than 2 hxbows?
Reply Quote
06/01/2012 08:47 PMPosted by Spawn
If you get two amazing 1H XBOWs, its better than a 2H XBOW. I think a 1H XBOW with a quiver is actually better though. Not sure, I only use 2H's.


1 hxbow and quiver, dont think so, technically what is your other hand doing? nothing, its not holding the quiver.... might as well put 2 hander bow on, start off with more dps, just a tab bit slower but makes up for it, look for stats like attack speed % or increases attack speed(not sure difference of those) and critical hit chance/damage% and dex, no use having a bow or xbow of any type with no dex...
Reply Quote
I have been using a bow and quiver. I cannot comment on the end game since my DH is only level 42, but I prefer the sustained damage over possible crit burst.
Reply Quote
I'm confused. Does the 2nd 1 handedxbow's states count?
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,007
View profile
At the moment this game favors burst damage instead of constant damage. Also with 1hxbow and the passive that increases a stat based on weapon type it has the least impressive stat.

A +10% crit chance is a +10% crit chance no matter what level or items you have. The 15% damage increase from bows is probably the strongest of the 3. That damage increase increases everything not just one aspect of damage.

Now 2hxbows they seem to favor using SS and crit builds. Id push them more towards the gimmicky spiketrap stack wait for 100% stack then make champions/elites walk over them.

With the 100% chance to crit you just upped that crit damage from a passive to +50% and the damage on it is 100% reliable just has a sort of "cool down" period until your SS is back up to 100%.

Basically with 2handers and a quiver add much more damage for burst and as far as duel wielding, well I don't know it seems to be very lack luster and the stats you get from a quiver are just insane.

That goes for all classes not just DH. I think the only reason it could be viable for Monks is because of a + dodge passive they get duel wielding?
Edited by TeamWorkTom#1750 on 6/1/2012 9:33 PM PDT
Reply Quote
2h Bow + quiver : higher item damage base combined with more hatred stuff from a quiver.
2 1-hand xbows : higher attack speed, less hatred bonuses.

I imagine the 1-handers will yield more sustained damage, but the 2-hand will yeild more burst damage. I think a 2hand would work better just because you're not going to have much opportunity to open shop per-say which would work best for the 1hand bows, usually you run'n'gun with a hunter so being able to turn and shoot twice between rolling away will work better for inferno, and with inferno being our current end game (no dueling yet so that cant be tried out) that leaves us using the 2-hand run'n'gun style of play.

tl;dr both have different uses, but 2handers utilize the current playstyle for inferno play, ergo better endgame usage.
Reply Quote
Basic breakdown:
Dual wielding means you alternate hands for shots so average the DPS of the weapons. You get the stats from both, and you get a 15% IAS bonus for dual wielding.

Two-handed weapons generally do 15% more damage than one-handed weapons.

Knowing this information, it's pretty simple to see why 2h+quiver is superior. I get the 15% bonus damage of a two-hander, and quivers have 15% IAS on them, which is equal to the benefit of dual wielding. All of my attacks that cost hatred hit much harder per hatred spent, so it's (much) more efficient. I can find literally no reason to ever dual wield if you have a nice 2h and a nice quiver.
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,502
Duel wield in THEORY is better then 2H, because the stats have the POSSIBILITY of being better then the quiver. So when you get 2 perfect stat crossbows, it owns everything.

The only problem is that you're going to have a hell of a time getting 2x 1H crossbows with perfect stats. Considering 1H crossbows can get to like +300 dex, 100% crit damage + 100% crit damage gem, it's far superior to anything a quiver can get you. Problem is, we don't know if we'll see one of those in the next 10 years.

For now it really just depends on what items you can get your hands on.
Reply Quote
At the moment this game favors burst damage instead of constant damage. Also with 1hxbow and the passive that increases a stat based on weapon type it has the least impressive stat.

A +10% crit chance is a +10% crit chance no matter what level or items you have. The 15% damage increase from bows is probably the strongest of the 3. That damage increase increases everything not just one aspect of damage.

Now 2hxbows they seem to favor using SS and crit builds. Id push them more towards the gimmicky spiketrap stack wait for 100% stack then make champions/elites walk over them.

With the 100% chance to crit you just upped that crit damage from a passive to +50% and the damage on it is 100% reliable just has a sort of "cool down" period until your SS is back up to 100%.


i been thinking whether i should keep my 1h xbow or move to a 2h bow
15% dmg increase does sound good or higher crit dmg on xbow
but what if you stack crit chances/crit dmg, with an incredibly fast attacking xbow 1 of every 10 hits (just from stat) will be doing massive damage

right now I have a 895 dmg 1h xbow w/ 85% more crit dmg
without ss i have approx 43k dmg and I have tried switching to bows that are 1k (didnt have crit dmg unfortunately) in dmg
i still end up losing dps
Reply Quote
Posts: 218
I've been delving into the stats (and math), and there's a lot to consider here.

The key DPS stats to consider are:
1. Weapon Base Damage (seems to be naturally higher on 2-handed bows and crossbows)
2. Weapon Attacks per Second (1.1 for 2H xbow, 1.4 for 2H bow, 1.6 for 1H xbow)
3. Crit Chance (only available on quiver or other armors)
4. Crit Damage (potentially better on 1H xbows because you get two gem slots)
5. Dexterity (available across all items, so it's not really relevant in comparing weapon types)

Some general pros and cons:
1-handed crossbows attack more times per second, give you the potential to stack double the critical hit damage with two weapon gem slots (at the cost of crit chance since you give up the quiver if you take two crossbows instead of one). Paired with Sharpshooter, an initial burst of 1H xbow shots would be stronger than the initial burst produced by other weapons (all other things being equal), because you can get more shots out before the first one connects. Getting your DPS from Attacks per Second though means that you eat Hatred faster for skills which consume it; however, this is mitigated by the fact that 1H xbows can roll Hatred Regen bonuses. One last consideration is that Attacks per Second don't necessarily stay as high as they should if you can't kite fast enough to keep up with it.

Another question to consider: how does 1H xbow + Quiver compare against 2 1H xbows and no Quiver?
1. Both can roll Hatred Regen and Max Discipline bonuses, so that aspect is a wash.
2. There's a tradeoff in crit chance versus crit damage as noted above.
3. It may be harder (or more expensive) to acquire two good xbows without one bringing the average DPS down.
4. The Quiver can spawn with other DH-specific bonuses (i.e. increased Elemental Arrow Damage) whereas bows cannot.

Theory-wise, there's a lot to consider here, but conventional wisdom is that 2H weapons are better at the highest levels. Still, it's very early in the game. Ultimately, the trick is to balance base damage, crit chance, crit damage, attacks per second, and dex in such a way as to get the most from each category without pushing too far in one at the expense of another. Every variable contributing to DPS eventually hits diminishing returns. So it's all pretty complicated and inner-related.

This is all freshly-researched and I am by no means an expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this!
Reply Quote
Posts: 218
Just realized, I didn't even consider how passive abilities change things. The Archery passive gives Bow an even bigger base damage boost, allows 2H xbows to catch up in crit damage, and gives 1H xbows a 10% crit chance. So, there's more variation to ponder.
Reply Quote
Posts: 186
I've been delving into the stats (and math), and there's a lot to consider here.

The key DPS stats to consider are:
1. Weapon Base Damage (seems to be naturally higher on 2-handed bows and crossbows)
2. Weapon Attacks per Second (1.1 for 2H xbow, 1.4 for 2H bow, 1.6 for 1H xbow)
3. Crit Chance (only available on quiver or other armors)
4. Crit Damage (potentially better on 1H xbows because you get two gem slots)
5. Dexterity (available across all items, so it's not really relevant in comparing weapon types)

Some general pros and cons:
1-handed crossbows attack more times per second, give you the potential to stack double the critical hit damage with two weapon gem slots (at the cost of crit chance since you give up the quiver if you take two crossbows instead of one). Paired with Sharpshooter, an initial burst of 1H xbow shots would be stronger than the initial burst produced by other weapons (all other things being equal), because you can get more shots out before the first one connects. Getting your DPS from Attacks per Second though means that you eat Hatred faster for skills which consume it; however, this is mitigated by the fact that 1H xbows can roll Hatred Regen bonuses. One last consideration is that Attacks per Second don't necessarily stay as high as they should if you can't kite fast enough to keep up with it.

Another question to consider: how does 1H xbow + Quiver compare against 2 1H xbows and no Quiver?
1. Both can roll Hatred Regen and Max Discipline bonuses, so that aspect is a wash.
2. There's a tradeoff in crit chance versus crit damage as noted above.
3. It may be harder (or more expensive) to acquire two good xbows without one bringing the average DPS down.
4. The Quiver can spawn with other DH-specific bonuses (i.e. increased Elemental Arrow Damage) whereas bows cannot.

Theory-wise, there's a lot to consider here, but conventional wisdom is that 2H weapons are better at the highest levels. Still, it's very early in the game. Ultimately, the trick is to balance base damage, crit chance, crit damage, attacks per second, and dex in such a way as to get the most from each category without pushing too far in one at the expense of another. Every variable contributing to DPS eventually hits diminishing returns. So it's all pretty complicated and inner-related.

This is all freshly-researched and I am by no means an expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this!
in addition to this please also consider the min-max damage of the weapon tbh 2h crossbow excel in this the gap between the min-max is not far off so if you crit your crit damage is almost constantly on the mid-high end crit dam. while if you use your bow (mid min - far max ) 1h xbow (low min - far max damage) so if you crit with a bow you get ubber max damage but will never be constant as you have a low min damage. for 1hxbow youll have mid-low crit damage but will make up for its aspeed ^^ this what i fairly noticed when i played with em. this the general reason why most peeps like the damage output done by crossbows/bow end game.
Reply Quote
The key DPS stats to consider are:1. Weapon Base Damage (seems to be naturally higher on 2-handed bows and crossbows)2. Weapon Attacks per Second (1.1 for 2H xbow, 1.4 for 2H bow, 1.6 for 1H xbow)3. Crit Chance (only available on quiver or other armors)4. Crit Damage (potentially better on 1H xbows because you get two gem slots)5. Dexterity (available across all items, so it's not really relevant in comparing weapon types)


6. +damage stats (cold, fire, arcane, poison. etc.)
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]