Diablo® III

48÷2(9+3) = ?

85 Orc Warrior
12025
06/12/2012 08:51 AMPosted by Sigtyr
This is why they put parentheses on calculators. The nature of this math problem lends itself to ambiguity and the interpretation of the reader.


there is no ambiguity. math does not work off interpretation of the reader. math is immutable and is not subjective. if someone has an issue with understanding the concept here and how to apply the order of operations then they do not correctly understand mathematics and should consider taking a middle school course.

----

288.

48/ 2 (9+3) is EXACTLY the same as 48/2 *(9+3).

you do not multiply 2*12 before you divide 48/2 because the parenthesis is done already, the multiplication is OUTSIDE the parenthesis, therefore it is a normal multiplication.
Multiplication and division have the same priority so left to right rule applies.


No just no.
48/ 2(9+3) - > 48 / ( 2 * (9+3))
48 divided by 2 times the sum of 9 plus 3. You need to know the value of 2 times 9+3 before you can do the division due to the order of operations.

Had the equation been written 48/2*(9+3) you would have an argument however with the 2(9+3) it implies that you have (2*(9+3)).
Case closed, answer is 2.


nah, it's really not. you are adding parenthesis now to make a different expression. you should have stayed in school past grade 7. case closed
Edited by jordan#1710 on 6/12/2012 8:57 AM PDT
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No just no.
48/ 2(9+3) - > 48 / ( 2 * (9+3))
48 divided by 2 times the sum of 9 plus 3. You need to know the value of 2 times 9+3 before you can do the division due to the order of operations.

Had the equation been written 48/2*(9+3) you would have an argument however with the 2(9+3) it implies that you have (2*(9+3)).
Case closed, answer is 2.


nah, it's really not. you are adding parenthesis now to make a different expression. you should have stayed in school past grade 7. case closed


When you have x(y+z) it is implied as (x * (y+z)). Please contact your previous math instructors and tell them you want a refund.
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85 Orc Warrior
12025
06/12/2012 09:05 AMPosted by Sansui
When you have x(y+z) it is implied as (x * (y+z)). Please contact your previous math instructors and tell them you want a refund.


LOLOLOL. this is called the distributive property and it has rules that govern its use.
please consult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_property
(specifically the "Rule of replacement" section)

x(y+z) is only "implied" as (x*(y+z)) or also as ((x*y) + (x*z)) when the original statement is one of the following:

48/(x(y+z))
48+x(y+z)
48-x(y+z)

this expression is equivalent to 48/x(y+z) which does not match any of the above rules.
.................................................^ no parenthesis
hence it does not apply. thanks for playing

you should have learned this in highschool bro. please don't drop out next time.
Edited by jordan#1710 on 6/12/2012 9:10 AM PDT
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When you have x(y+z) it is implied as (x * (y+z)). Please contact your previous math instructors and tell them you want a refund.


ROFL.

Nah dude, I think you should be the one doing that. To say we're wrong is to say the people at wolfram-alpha and Texas Instruments are wrong.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48%C3%B72%289%2B3%29
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2
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0.999... = 1?
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85 Orc Warrior
12025
06/12/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Holographic
0.999... = 1?


yep
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06/12/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Holographic
0.999... = 1?


is this another fail troll attempt?
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When you have x(y+z) it is implied as (x * (y+z)). Please contact your previous math instructors and tell them you want a refund.


LOLOLOL. this is called the distributive property and it has rules that govern its use.
please consult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_property
(specifically the "Rule of replacement" section)

x(y+z) is only "implied" as (x*(y+z)) or also as ((x*y) + (x*z)) when the original statement is one of the following:

48/(x(y+z))
48+x(y+z)
48-x(y+z)

this expression is equivalent to 48/x(y+z) which does not match any of the above rules.
.................................................^ no parenthesis
hence it does not apply. thanks for playing

you should have learned this in highschool bro. please don't drop out next time.


The multiplication and parenthesis is implied. You should have learned this in grade school.
Implied multiplication takes precedent over the division.
48/2(9+3) = 48/2(x) = 48/2x | x = 9+3 = 12
48/2(12) = 48/24 = 2

Implied multiplication is supposed to be completed before division or other multiplication. It is sad this is not taught in most grade schools. The answer is 2.

06/12/2012 09:12 AMPosted by SweetWilly
When you have x(y+z) it is implied as (x * (y+z)). Please contact your previous math instructors and tell them you want a refund.


ROFL.

Nah dude, I think you should be the one doing that. To say we're wrong is to say the people at wolfram-alpha and Texas Instruments are wrong.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48%C3%B72%289%2B3%29


wolfram-alpha agrees with me that implied multiplication should be executed before division. But they flipflop on the issue.
Edited by Sansui#1631 on 6/12/2012 9:41 AM PDT
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85 Orc Warrior
12025
06/12/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Sansui
Implied multiplication takes precedent over the division.


stopped right here. go back to school kid.

06/12/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Sansui
wolfram-alpha agrees with me that implied multiplication should be executed before division.


http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48%2F2%289%2B3%29

wolfram alpha certainly does not agree with you. nor does any real mathematician in the world, all real calculators, programming languages, etc...

thanks for playing.
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06/12/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Sansui
wolfram-alpha agrees with me that implied multiplication should be executed before division.


Uhhhh...did you even go to the link I just sent you? Concrete proof that WA disagrees with you.

Fail troll is fail.
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Implied multiplication takes precedent over the division.


stopped right here. go back to school kid.

wolfram-alpha agrees with me that implied multiplication should be executed before division.


http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48%2F2%289%2B3%29

wolfram alpha certainly does not agree with you. nor does any real mathematician in the world, all real calculators, programming languages, etc...

thanks for playing.


They actually do agree with implied multiplication but they also try to inject extra requirments that make no sense.
You need to go back to school as 2(9+3) = 2x if x = 9+3 => 2(9+3) = 24. 48 / 2x => 48 / 24 = 2. Implied multiplication is simple people.

48/2(9+3)
2(9+3) is implied multiplication as you can not write 29+3 Otherwise the equation should be written:
48/2*(9+3) or (48/2)(9+3)
without the * the equation becomes 48/(2(9+3)) for calculators incapable of correctly following the rules of implied multiplication.

wolfram-alpha agrees with me that implied multiplication should be executed before division.


Uhhhh...did you even go to the link I just sent you? Concrete proof that WA disagrees with you.

Fail troll is fail.


Might want to do some research as they do agree that implied multiplication exists. They simply fail to do it correctly with their calculator. To correctly indicate this equation you would need to write it as 48/2x where x =9+3, or 48/(2(9+3)). Since the equation is not written as 48/2*(9+3) you are supposed to do the parenthesis first which includes any implied multiplication.
Edited by Sansui#1631 on 6/12/2012 9:55 AM PDT
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PEMDAS is not binding.

I teach my students to use PEMDAS, but whenever there is one term (after you do whats inside the parenthesis) then you must work left to right. (ONLY if what is left is simply multiplying and dividing, throw in a plus or minus and PEMDAS applies again: 500/5+3*8 = 124)

48/2(9+3) does not imply additional parenthesis. After the execution of 9+3=12, you have one term (a monomial)

Work left to right.

Can any of you saying the answer is two please do these problems I've prepared?

1) 100/2+3
2) 100/(2+3)
3) (100/2)+3

What about:

4) 100x/(10(x^2))*10x

For a challenge. Answer should be in terms of x. All problems I give to my 7th and 8th graders. My 10th and 11th graders wish I gave them that ;)
Edited by TeacherMan#1201 on 6/12/2012 9:58 AM PDT
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Might want to do some research as they do agree that implied multiplication exists. They simply fail to do it correctly with their calculator. To correctly indicate this equation you would need to write it as 48/2x where x =9+3, or 48/(2(9+3)). Since the equation is not written as 48/2*(9+3) you are supposed to do the parenthesis first which includes any implied multiplication.


You're implying that every program that has ever been written, every calculator and every math curriculum should be rewritten because of some arbitrary change that WA "supposedly" advocates (and that I have yet to see a shred of evidence for).

Good luck with that, bro.
Edited by SweetWilly#1217 on 6/12/2012 9:58 AM PDT
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PEMDAS is not binding.

I teach my students to use PEMDAS, but whenever there is one term (after you do whats inside the parenthesis) then you must work left to right.

48/2(9+3) does not imply additional parenthesis. After the execution of 9+3=12, you have one term (a monomial)


48/2(9+3) includes implied multiplication of 2x where x = 9+3 so you have (2(9+3)) the implied multiplication adds the parenthesis. When written in shorthand the extra parenthesis is not needed due to implied multiplication.


You're implying that every program that has ever been written, every calculator and every math curriculum should be rewritten because of some arbitrary change that WA "supposedly" advocates (and that I have yet to see a shred of evidence for).

Good luck with that, bro.

Many programs written that understand implied multiplication correctly give the answer of 2. Many math curriculum's also already acknowledge the rule of implied multiplication.
Programmers on the other hand are required to use implied multiplication due to not being able to write 2x as 29+3 when the variable is substituted therefore needing the 2(9+3).
Edited by Sansui#1631 on 6/12/2012 10:05 AM PDT
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PEMDAS is not binding.

I teach my students to use PEMDAS, but whenever there is one term (after you do whats inside the parenthesis) then you must work left to right.

48/2(9+3) does not imply additional parenthesis. After the execution of 9+3=12, you have one term (a monomial)


48/2(9+3) includes implied multiplication of 2x where x = 9+3 so you have (2(9+3)) the implied multiplication adds the parenthesis. When written in shorthand the extra parenthesis is not needed due to implied multiplication.


Did you do my example problems?

You need the parenthesis to be there. If forgotten, the entire problem is changed.

Example:

48/2(9+3) = 288

Versus

48/(2(9+3)) = 2

Both 48/2*(9+3) is the same as 48/2(9+3) is 288. Some people are right in the answer but are wrong when they say "If the * was added, it would be different".
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Sansui, you're looking at this from a subjective standpoint.

Subjective isn't how simple math works.

Yeah, I'm not a math major, but I have taken calc I-III, diff eq and linear algebra. Not once have I missed a problem in any of those classes based on what you claim (nor have I missed anything of that sort in any of my arithmetic heavy engineering classes).

There is nothing "implied" in basic integer arithmetic. There is only concrete numbers.
Edited by SweetWilly#1217 on 6/12/2012 10:09 AM PDT
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48/2(9+3) includes implied multiplication of 2x where x = 9+3 so you have (2(9+3)) the implied multiplication adds the parenthesis. When written in shorthand the extra parenthesis is not needed due to implied multiplication.


Did you do my example problems?

You need the parenthesis to be there. If forgotten, the entire problem is changed.

Example:

48/2(9+3) = 288

Versus

48/(2(9+3)) = 2

Both 48/2*(9+3) is the same as 48/2(9+3) is 288. Some people are right in the answer but are wrong when they say "If the * was added, it would be different".

Both 48/2*(9+3) and 48/2(9+3) are NOT the same. You are missing the implied multiplication.
48/2*x != 48/2x Where x = 9+3.
48/2*(9+3) = 288
48/2(9+3) = 2
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85 Orc Warrior
12025
06/12/2012 10:19 AMPosted by Sansui
48/2*(9+3) and 48/2(9+3) are NOT the same.


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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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