Diablo® III

Why nerf Inferno?

So I heard Blizzard is planning on nerfing Inferno and that people are actually encouraging it, and I honestly don't see why. You guys do realize that Inferno is the last difficulty level, don't you? What did you expect? There's no end game content. Inferno IS the end game content.

The fact that Inferno is so hard is what makes it so great. Its a true challenge.

So far, from what I've seen, the furthest anyone's gotten on Hardcore Inferno, is Act 3. There's a video of this Barbarian defeating Belial on Hardcore Inferno. If I were him, and I had gotten that far, I'd feel far less accomplished if the game was nerfed before I could finish it. I'm rooting for him, and I hope he makes it all the way.

Inferno won't be Inferno if it's nerfed.
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Get to inferno
then come back

try not to make posts about stuff you haven't experienced otherwise you would be hand in hand with the other 98pct of the playerbase that has experienced A2-4 inferno and think its just dumb and needs to be fixed.
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Get to inferno
then come back

try not to make posts about stuff you haven't experienced otherwise you would be hand in hand with the other 98pct of the playerbase that has experienced A2-4 inferno and think its just dumb and needs to be fixed.


Not everyone subscribes to your QQ Wah wah bullcrap.

I've cleared Inferno, on a MONK no less... and I feel that a nerf is NOT needed. I can already faceroll Act 2 (Literally faceroll.. facetank all elites standing in place and straight IGNORE their mechanics) because I'm sitting at 3k Life on Hit and the damage simply isn't enough through my mitigation.

Act 3 is starting to become easymode.. I can get 5 stacks and kill seigebreaker in under 25 minutes with 0 deaths. It's fast and easy. I can farm inferno whimsy in under 45 minutes.

Why nerf something that people are already able to complete, with every class? Once it's nerfed I'm going to laugh when you all are still dying because it wasn't the monster damage that was stupid, it was you... you'll continue to stand in plague pools and continue to run through arcane beams.. that's never going to change. Maybe if you actually tried a little inferno wouldn't seem so difficult?

Act IV is still a challenge to get 5 stacks in, but it's doable most of the time. Once it's nerfed, what challenge will be left in the game if the only challenge remaining is the final act of the final difficulty? Inferno was supposed to be a little BONUS to players like me.. Hell difficulty was supposed to be the end of the game for people who didnt want to be challenged.. but for some reason you all seem to assume that Inferno was intended as the 'endgame' that every 60 rushes to to farm.. that couldn't be further from the truth. Inferno was originally intended (check D3 development posts) as a BONUS to players who WANTED to slam their head against the wall for months. Why can't you guys just be happy with hell difficulty and let us hardcore players have inferno the way it is? It's already starting to get too easy.. and my gear is freaking mediocre compared to some.

Why in the hell would you want to nerf something that players of EVERY class are able to clear? If others can do it, so can you! You just don't want to spend the time or have the dedication to do it.. thus you shouldn't be rewarded with the best loot in the game.
Edited by ericdjobs#1580 on 6/10/2012 12:02 AM PDT
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That's actually one of the reasons I don't want it nerfed. I want to try it, to see just how monsterous it is, before it gets nerfed.
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Posts: 11,502
I already beat it, and it's pretty easy as a DH even after the nerfs to smoke screen. I feel like Inferno should be buffed to make it worthy of being "end game" content, and adjust the melee classes so they can progress a little better.
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I agree with ericdjob's post 100%. That's exactly how I feel.
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06/09/2012 11:59 PMPosted by hughbmyron
because people with good gear are already killing everything in a few sec, while people that dont have access to 500mil worth of gear are raging at elites?


You don't need 500 million. That's an absolute lie.

And gold is really easy to come by.

You have any idea how much I sold some 160 vit/174 str/70 resist all/76 life regen bracers for? 12.5 million gold. That's just ONE item out of many that I sell every day. I average about 10-15 million gold a DAY simply selling items from inferno whimsy.

Gold isn't that hard to come by. The skill and dedication to clear inferno, on the other hand, obviously seems to be in very short supply.. at least on these forums. Me and my friends have absolutely no problem clearing Inferno.. my barb friend has done it SOLO.. and I've done it SOLO on a monk.. and we all know the ranged classes can do it...

SO WHY NERF IT? EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN ITS CURRENT STATE IS ABLE TO CLEAR INFERNO IF PLAYED PROPERLY
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Inferno should rightfully be hard. But right now Act 2 is brokenly hard.

Inferno is made easier so that ALL builds can work, not just the kiting glass-cannon builds.
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Posts: 173
Get to inferno
then come back

try not to make posts about stuff you haven't experienced otherwise you would be hand in hand with the other 98pct of the playerbase that has experienced A2-4 inferno and think its just dumb and needs to be fixed.


Not everyone subscribes to your QQ Wah wah bullcrap.

I've cleared Inferno, on a MONK no less... and I feel that a nerf is NOT needed. I can already faceroll Act 2 (Literally faceroll.. facetank all elites standing in place and straight IGNORE their mechanics) because I'm sitting at 3k Life on Hit and the damage simply isn't enough through my mitigation.

Act 3 is starting to become easymode.. I can get 5 stacks and kill seigebreaker in under 25 minutes with 0 deaths. It's fast and easy. I can farm inferno whimsy in under 45 minutes.

Why nerf something that people are already able to complete, with every class? Once it's nerfed I'm going to laugh when you all are still dying because it wasn't the monster damage that was stupid, it was you... you'll continue to stand in plague pools and continue to run through arcane beams.. that's never going to change. Maybe if you actually tried a little inferno wouldn't seem so difficult?

Act IV is still a challenge to get 5 stacks in, but it's doable most of the time. Once it's nerfed, what challenge will be left in the game if the only challenge remaining is the final act of the final difficulty? Inferno was supposed to be a little BONUS to players like me.. Hell difficulty was supposed to be the end of the game for people who didnt want to be challenged.. but for some reason you all seem to assume that Inferno was intended as the 'endgame' that every 60 rushes to to farm.. that couldn't be further from the truth. Inferno was originally intended (check D3 development posts) as a BONUS to players who WANTED to slam their head against the wall for months. Why can't you guys just be happy with hell difficulty and let us hardcore players have inferno the way it is? It's already starting to get too easy.. and my gear is freaking mediocre compared to some.

Why in the hell would you want to nerf something that players of EVERY class are able to clear? If others can do it, so can you! You just don't want to spend the time or have the dedication to do it.. thus you shouldn't be rewarded with the best loot in the game.


Congrats on buying all your gear. Now for people such as myself who actually enjoy the challenge and excitement of finding our own ****ing gear... its terrible balance since EVERY moron who claims its not broke bought all their gear, had it handed to them by a friend, or farmed it on the DH/Wiz. Now sit down and shut the hell up.
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72 Human Warlock
1100
Posts: 65
I think the problem is that Blizzard is seeing a lot of people pigeonholed into certain builds in order to clear inferno and they want to encourage diversity. I "think" their intent is for the weakening of inferno to be a way to promote that happening.

I understand that if you get better gear inferno gets easier and is entirely possible to clear, but what people were promised was build diversity (a billion skill combinations or something like that, lol). Because of the difficulty of inferno and the fact that even with the best gear you're still required to have a specific build for most classes, the easiest way is for them to just nerf damage and health of mobs. This "fix" (assuming I understand their intentions) allows for more possible builds to appear and from there, they can tweak mechanics accordingly.

Whether the method their choosing to do this is good or bad, I won't comment on as I have no qualifications.
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Not everyone subscribes to your QQ Wah wah bullcrap.

I've cleared Inferno, on a MONK no less... and I feel that a nerf is NOT needed. I can already faceroll Act 2 (Literally faceroll.. facetank all elites standing in place and straight IGNORE their mechanics) because I'm sitting at 3k Life on Hit and the damage simply isn't enough through my mitigation.

Act 3 is starting to become easymode.. I can get 5 stacks and kill seigebreaker in under 25 minutes with 0 deaths. It's fast and easy. I can farm inferno whimsy in under 45 minutes.

Why nerf something that people are already able to complete, with every class? Once it's nerfed I'm going to laugh when you all are still dying because it wasn't the monster damage that was stupid, it was you... you'll continue to stand in plague pools and continue to run through arcane beams.. that's never going to change. Maybe if you actually tried a little inferno wouldn't seem so difficult?

Act IV is still a challenge to get 5 stacks in, but it's doable most of the time. Once it's nerfed, what challenge will be left in the game if the only challenge remaining is the final act of the final difficulty? Inferno was supposed to be a little BONUS to players like me.. Hell difficulty was supposed to be the end of the game for people who didnt want to be challenged.. but for some reason you all seem to assume that Inferno was intended as the 'endgame' that every 60 rushes to to farm.. that couldn't be further from the truth. Inferno was originally intended (check D3 development posts) as a BONUS to players who WANTED to slam their head against the wall for months. Why can't you guys just be happy with hell difficulty and let us hardcore players have inferno the way it is? It's already starting to get too easy.. and my gear is freaking mediocre compared to some.

Why in the hell would you want to nerf something that players of EVERY class are able to clear? If others can do it, so can you! You just don't want to spend the time or have the dedication to do it.. thus you shouldn't be rewarded with the best loot in the game.


Congrats on buying all your gear. Now for people such as myself who actually enjoy the challenge and excitement of finding our own ****ing gear... its terrible balance since EVERY moron who claims its not broke bought all their gear, had it handed to them by a friend, or farmed it on the DH/Wiz. Now sit down and shut the hell up.


Sorry.. try again... I've only bought maybe 3 pieces of gear.. the rest, yes, a lot of it given to me by friends, but it's a social game, bud. I've given away quite a few upgrades to friends as well, it's simply the nature of the game.

You should go over to the Barbarian forum where this guy got ragged on for having such good gear (after inferno clear) so what did he do? He bought almost ALL BLUES for 5-15k from the auction house then solo'd to act 3 seigebreaker as a BARB. There's videos and all. Gear doesn't give you the skill required to clear inferno, it's simply a tool to help you focus that skill. If it was 100% gear, this barb should've been unable to progress past act 2, right? Go look for yourself.. this right here makes your whole argument null and void.

You do understand the game was designed around the fact that there is an auction house, right? And that's it's kind of an understanding that you're required to buy gear off the AH to progress in Inferno. I can promise you that even after the so-called 'nerf' rolling into inferno with your crap-itemized gear still isn't going to work out for you. You will still be required to properly itemize yourself.

If they nerfed Inferno enough to be beatable in any random assortment of gear, how 'challenging' do you think it would be to someone who puts time and effort with spreadsheets/calculators/etc to min/max itemization? It would be absolutely faceroll easy. I highly doubt that's going to happen, even with the purposed 'nerf'
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I think the problem is that Blizzard is seeing a lot of people pigeonholed into certain builds in order to clear inferno and they want to encourage diversity. I "think" their intent is for the weakening of inferno to be a way to promote that happening.

I understand that if you get better gear inferno gets easier and is entirely possible to clear, but what people were promised was build diversity (a billion skill combinations or something like that, lol). Because of the difficulty of inferno and the fact that even with the best gear you're still required to have a specific build for most classes, the easiest way is for them to just nerf damage and health of mobs. This "fix" (assuming I understand their intentions) allows for more possible builds to appear and from there, they can tweak mechanics accordingly.

Whether the method their choosing to do this is good or bad, I won't comment on as I have no qualifications.


Problem is if you nerf it so any faceroll build can just waltz into inferno and do well, people who properly build their characters to be the most efficient will suddenly just wipe the floor.. and have no challenge. It's impossible to have something challenging without there being 1 or 2 'best' methods of approaching it. You can't simply nerf to the lowest common denominator. That's why Inferno was even designed.. HELL DIFFICULTY was supposed to be the end of the game with INFERNO as a bonus.. If you wanted to use any crazy/wonky build that's what HELL is for.

For some reason people feel they are entitled to clear inferno simply because the best loot is in there. You don't need that kind of loot to clear hell mode.

I'd really like blizzard to stick to their original design intention and keep Inferno as a bonus difficulty for people who like the challenge.. and those who don't want the challenge can farm in Hell mode. Hell, you could even give hell mode a small percent chance of dropping <ilevel 62 loot (not 63, should NOT award the best loot in the game for something that required no challenge.. people should be rewarded).
Edited by ericdjobs#1580 on 6/10/2012 12:18 AM PDT
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85 Worgen Mage
3815
Posts: 3,331
06/10/2012 12:05 AMPosted by ericdjobs
because people with good gear are already killing everything in a few sec, while people that dont have access to 500mil worth of gear are raging at elites?


You don't need 500 million. That's an absolute lie.

And gold is really easy to come by.

You have any idea how much I sold some 160 vit/174 str/70 resist all/76 life regen bracers for? 12.5 million gold. That's just ONE item out of many that I sell every day. I average about 10-15 million gold a DAY simply selling items from inferno whimsy.

Gold isn't that hard to come by. The skill and dedication to clear inferno, on the other hand, obviously seems to be in very short supply.. at least on these forums. Me and my friends have absolutely no problem clearing Inferno.. my barb friend has done it SOLO.. and I've done it SOLO on a monk.. and we all know the ranged classes can do it...

SO WHY NERF IT? EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN ITS CURRENT STATE IS ABLE TO CLEAR INFERNO IF PLAYED PROPERLY


Gold is easy to obtain, for you because you're right at the end content which is actually valuable.
For those who are still hitting a brick wall on act 2 because you're getting level 58 gear drop, you have no real way to make money.

Most of the methods to get money are being nerfed, granted the drop rates are apparently going to be improved in it's current state Inferno is impossible without an immense amount of luck to overcome the horrid gear drops.

You cannot clear act 2 inferno with the gear that drops, it's simply not possible with a 450 DPS weapon or some crappy bracer with health orb + gold pickup.
Theres no skill about it, I'm being one-two shot by elites in my "tank" build on my wizard with all the cash I can obtain at my present point and in my glass cannon build I'm being annihilated by anything that touches me, which is often given that elites have vortex/wall/etc regardless of kiting.

So from this, either you buy your gold with money, or you farm it for months in the hopes that a piece your level and with good itemisation drops.
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72 Human Warlock
1100
Posts: 65

You do understand the game was designed around the fact that there is an auction house, right? And that's it's kind of an understanding that you're required to buy gear off the AH to progress in Inferno. I can promise you that even after the so-called 'nerf' rolling into inferno with your crap-itemized gear still isn't going to work out for you. You will still be required to properly itemize yourself.


According to the reddit discussion, basthiok (I think that's the CM's name), was incorrect when they made the statement that loot drops were balanced around the AH. I'm not going to call the company a liar in regards to this, but the jist of what was said is that all loot drops were configured before the AH went live as for the majority of development it wasn't in place. The developers made them without the inclusion of the AH.

It's entirely possible that they fudged the numbers to account for the inclusion of the auction house post development, but I wouldn't know. Besides, it was also stated that the AH was supposed to be a tool to assist with gearing for people who were interested in trading. It was never intended to be the sole source of acquiring gear and that people who don't use it shouldn't be punished.
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Inferno should rightfully be hard. But right now Act 2 is brokenly hard.

Inferno is made easier so that ALL builds can work, not just the kiting glass-cannon builds.


That can apply all well and good for Normal through Hell difficulties, but for Inferno, you SHOULD have to play carefully, and not just be able to go all balls to the wall, full dps build, or something, expecting to mow passed everything.
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You do understand the game was designed around the fact that there is an auction house, right? And that's it's kind of an understanding that you're required to buy gear off the AH to progress in Inferno. I can promise you that even after the so-called 'nerf' rolling into inferno with your crap-itemized gear still isn't going to work out for you. You will still be required to properly itemize yourself.


According to the reddit discussion, basthiok (I think that's the CM's name), was incorrect when they made the statement that loot drops were balanced around the AH. I'm not going to call the company a liar in regards to this, but the jist of what was said is that all loot drops were configured before the AH went live as for the majority of development it wasn't in place. The developers made them without the inclusion of the AH.

It's entirely possible that they fudged the numbers to account for the inclusion of the auction house post development, but I wouldn't know. Besides, it was also stated that the AH was supposed to be a tool to assist with gearing for people who were interested in trading. It was never intended to be the sole source of acquiring gear and that people who don't use it shouldn't be punished.


You should be punished if you do not properly itemize your character to be the epitome of efficiency if you want to do the most challenging content in the game. Do you waltz into hard mode dragon soul with greens on? No. Did you waltz into BWL wearing your tier 1 set? No. If you're going to make something truly challenging, it has to be challenging considering the MOST OPTIMIZED build and gearset..

If inferno was balanced to be clearable by people in drops they found, it would be so ridiculously easy by the time you actually aquired decent gear that it would no longer be fun. You have to balance around the fact that people WILL optimize and min/max. Inferno was intended to be a difficulty level FOR THIS TYPE OF META GAMEPLAY. I guess you all don't simply understand that. We want to plot spreadsheets on mitigation. We want to do the math to figure out the absolute best upgrade. We want to die to a pack 15 times and finally execute everything perfectly and kill it, for the sense of accomplishment. THIS IS WHAT INFERNO WAS INTENDED FOR. Not just another place to farm up items that just so happen to be the best. Gear is a tool to accomplish a goal, not the goal itself.

YOU CANNOT DESIGN A DIFFICULTY LEVEL AROUND THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. IF YOU DO, IT WILL NEVER BE TRULY DIFFICULT TO THOSE OF US WHO KNOW HOW TO PLAY
Edited by ericdjobs#1580 on 6/10/2012 12:24 AM PDT
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Inferno should rightfully be hard. But right now Act 2 is brokenly hard.

Inferno is made easier so that ALL builds can work, not just the kiting glass-cannon builds.


That can apply all well and good for Normal through Hell difficulties, but for Inferno, you SHOULD have to play carefully, and not just be able to go all balls to the wall, full dps build, or something, expecting to mow passed everything.


You have no idea what you're talking about. Get to inferno and see it for yourself. I guarantee you'll change your mind.
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Currently in Inferno act 4 stuck on the Diablo fight, AND I just hear about a nerf to Inferno!?!? makes me wonder why I dealt with the grind when all I had to do was whine and wait....
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