Diablo® III

48÷2(9+3) = ? cont.



(2x)/(2x) =/= 2x/2x

The parenthesis have meaning here. 2x/2x does not have parenthesis, there is no "assumed" parenthesis.


Please look at the evidence that lead to that conclusion

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2x%C3%B72x

Implied multiplication takes precedence over multiplication and division.

x = (x/1)^1
This is implied.

2x is as simple as we can make the term without knowing the value of x

(2x/1)^1 is implied.

48/x is as simple as you can make this term without knowing the value of x.

48/xb is as simple as you can make this term without knowing the value of x or b.

[(48/xb)/1]^1 is implied.

48/xb != 48 ÷ x * b

Multiplication and division are same level functions:

10/5 ÷ 10/5 = 1

If you arrive at something different you have made an error. This is not disputable.

2x/2x = 1

48/ab = 48/(ab)

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48%2Fa%28b%29

implied multiplication = implied parenthesis.

2x4y6z/2x4y6z = 1

Anything else is a comprehension issue. Following OoO for the sake of OoO is dumb.

Please point to examples for which following OoO to the letter doesn't result in serious issues in every other related problem.


Dude this is not true and you have yet to give any evidence to the contrary.

Implied operators only take precedence for the purpose of ease of user input in single line fields in regards to programming. It is not solid mathematics, nor is it accurate. It is merely for convenience purposes, because most people will enter 2x/2x meaning (2x)/(2x).
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06/12/2012 01:01 PMPosted by SweetWilly
And not a program that someone has programmed to do it. As in some type of paper ect that has been shown, proven, and accepted in the math community. We'll be waiting because you won't find anything.


Exactly, WolframAlpha was designed for ease of use. User friendly. So of course it's going to assume by 2x/2x you meant 2x/(2x).


THANK YOU this guy gets it.

USER FRIENDLY.

ASSUME.

DOES NOT MEANT TECHNICALLY CORRECT.
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Posts: 126
You kiddos would be better off if you just forgot about the whole left to right rule altogether. They may have made you do it in basic mathmatics but once you get to algebra you always do multiplication first. Then if there is a division you multiply that whole value first before you divide. I think if someone was asking the orginal question for their homework the answer would have been 2, because in only basic mathmatics uses that division symbol. But in algebra that symbol isn't used so then you couldn't use algebraic laws to describe the problem since it is basic mathmatics. So then it would be 2 just because of that division symbol. So if you have ab/cd you would always multiply a and b, then multiply c and d, then divide them last.

If you use the website you get the same answer for 2x/2x as you would (2x)/2x as you would 2x/(2x). They all represent the same thing.
Edited by Windscar#1524 on 6/12/2012 1:16 PM PDT
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06/12/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Windscar
So if you have ab/cd you would always multiply a and b, then multiply c and d, then divide them last.

no

ab/cd, you would multiply a by b, then divide by c, then multiply by d.
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Posts: 126
Grimraven, you get an F. And a frowny face.
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06/12/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Windscar
You kiddos would be better off if you just forgot about the whole left to right rule altogether. They may have made you do it in basic mathmatics but once you get to algebra you always do multiplication first. Then if there is a division you multiply that whole value first before you divide. I think if someone was asking the orginal question for their homework the answer would have been 2, because in only basic mathmatics uses that division symbol. But in algebra that symbol isn't used so then you couldn't use algebraic laws to describe the problem since it is basic mathmatics. So then it would be 2 just because of that division symbol. So if you have ab/cd you would always multiply a and b, then multiply c and d, then divide them last.


Why would they teach us something that is completely contradicted later? That's completely counter-intuitive and you're using it as a cop-out for the fact that you're making up rules.

I've been through Algebra, Geometry, Trig, Calc I-III, Diff Eq, Circuits, Statics, and linear algebra (and other classes that involve complex arithmetic, don't feel like naming them all) and not once have I missed a problem on this basis.

If you use the website you get the same answer for 2x/2x as you would (2x)/2x as you would 2x/(2x). They all represent the same thing.


Website won't work in proofs dude, the professor will just laugh at you.
Edited by SweetWilly#1217 on 6/12/2012 1:20 PM PDT
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Grimraven, you get an F. And a frowny face.


that's weird, because I aced every calculus class I took

Obviously, you don't need calculus to break this problem down as ab/cd

Just launch a calculator on your computer and enter ab/cd where a=1, b=2, c=3, d=4
you will get 2.666666666666666....
Now what you are claiming I should be getting is 0.1666666666...., but that would only happened if I used parenthesis in a way that ab/(cd), however ab/cd is not the same as ab/(cd)
Edited by Grimraven#1853 on 6/12/2012 1:28 PM PDT
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I love how the "288" camp is providing factual evidence and sensible explanations, while the two people in the "2" camp are just going "na na na na can't hear you answer is 2 cause I say so na na na na"

Shouldn't that be proof enough?
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I love how the "288" camp is providing factual evidence and sensible explanations, while the two people in the "2" camp are just going "na na na na can't hear you answer is 2 cause I say so na na na na"

Shouldn't that be proof enough?


lol! so true
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Posts: 126
06/12/2012 01:17 PMPosted by SweetWilly
You kiddos would be better off if you just forgot about the whole left to right rule altogether. They may have made you do it in basic mathmatics but once you get to algebra you always do multiplication first. Then if there is a division you multiply that whole value first before you divide. I think if someone was asking the orginal question for their homework the answer would have been 2, because in only basic mathmatics uses that division symbol. But in algebra that symbol isn't used so then you couldn't use algebraic laws to describe the problem since it is basic mathmatics. So then it would be 2 just because of that division symbol. So if you have ab/cd you would always multiply a and b, then multiply c and d, then divide them last.


Why would they teach us something that is completely contradicted later? That's completely counter-intuitive and you're using it as a cop-out for the fact that you're making up rules.

I've been through Algebra, Geometry, Trig, Calc I-III, Diff Eq, Circuits, Statics, and linear algebra (and other classes that involve complex arithmetic, don't feel like naming them all) and not once have I missed a problem on this basis.

If you use the website you get the same answer for 2x/2x as you would (2x)/2x as you would 2x/(2x). They all represent the same thing.


Website won't work in proofs dude, the professor will just laugh at you.
Either you are lying or this is why I can't get a real job because everyone else is incompetent. Go ahead and get a F, it won't matter as long as you graduate you just have to check a box that you did anyways... Then with all of your "experience" they will see how incompentant you are so then I tell them about how I graduated with a 4.0 it won't even matter to them and I will never get that phone call. Thanks for nothing. Our mutual level of incompetence has become quite dumbfounding...
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90 Worgen Hunter
10420
Posts: 1,162
This is like the dumbest thing to argue about

what is wrong with you people
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06/12/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Windscar
Either you are lying or this is why I can't get a real job because everyone else is incompetent.


when you think that everyone is stupid and you are the one that is smart when you are in disagreement about something....usually it's the other way around...
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Either you are lying or this is why I can't get a real job because everyone else is incompetent. Go ahead and get a F, it won't matter as long as you graduate you just have to check a box that you did anyways... Then with all of your "experience" they will see how incompentant you are so then I tell them about how I graduated with a 4.0 it won't even matter to them and I will never get that phone call. Thanks for nothing. Our mutual level of incompetence has become quite dumbfounding...


.....aaaaaand now you sound delusional.

Get over yourself.
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WoW.. You American are funny.... let put is this way... like i post b4

Let y= 48
--- (9+3)
2

let said 2= X

y= 48
--- (9+3)
X

Time X both side

X * y = X* 48
---- (9+3)
X
Now..

X* y= 48 (9+3)
X* y= 48 (12)
X* y= 576

We can bring the x back now... By divide both side

(X * y) = 576
------- ----
X X

And WE got..

y= 576
-----
X

Let x= 2

y= 576
-----
2

y=288
Edited by Sennin#1216 on 6/12/2012 1:38 PM PDT
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Posts: 204
You kiddos would be better off if you just forgot about the whole left to right rule altogether. They may have made you do it in basic mathmatics but once you get to algebra you always do multiplication first. Then if there is a division you multiply that whole value first before you divide. I think if someone was asking the orginal question for their homework the answer would have been 2, because in only basic mathmatics uses that division symbol. But in algebra that symbol isn't used so then you couldn't use algebraic laws to describe the problem since it is basic mathmatics. So then it would be 2 just because of that division symbol. So if you have ab/cd you would always multiply a and b, then multiply c and d, then divide them last.

If you use the website you get the same answer for 2x/2x as you would (2x)/2x as you would 2x/(2x). They all represent the same thing.


Wow just wow. You honestly think order of operations is just thrown out of the window when you get the algebra? Have you ever actually taken algebra. Order of operations is algebras bread and butter. Order of operations is one of the basics for any math class to think other ways is dumb and you lose all credibility. Also before you try to get all holier than thou on me, I have a BS in math and I am working towards my MS right now.
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90 Worgen Hunter
10420
Posts: 1,162
This is like the dumbest thing to argue about

what is wrong with you people


To clarify, you're arguing over order of operations acting like there is only one. An order of operations is just a rule to remove ambiguity.

The most widely used method (PEMDAS) has multiplication and divison on equal footing and reads left to right--same with addition and subtraction. Using that, 48÷2(9+3) = 288.

You could say multiplication takes precedence over division for whatever reason, so 48÷2(9+3) = 2.

The first is just the most widely used order of operations. Neither are wrong.

In any case, I would consider anyone who wrote 48÷2(9+3) to be an idiot.
Edited by Kennyloggins#1272 on 6/12/2012 1:41 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,313


Why would they teach us something that is completely contradicted later? That's completely counter-intuitive and you're using it as a cop-out for the fact that you're making up rules.


This is really common. They probaboly taught you in gradeschool never to begin a sentence with but or end a sentence with a preposition. But in college composition, you're likely to learn the opposite.

Grade school stuff typically lags behind college stuff, and is often simplified to the point of inaccuracy anyway. Half the time the teachers don't even know they're giving a simplified inaccurate version of what's true, but they are.

I've been through Algebra, Geometry, Trig, Calc I-III, Diff Eq, Circuits, Statics, and linear algebra (and other classes that involve complex arithmetic, don't feel like naming them all) and not once have I missed a problem on this basis.


This is because a problem like this would never have come up. You wouldn't have used the division sign. And instead of a forward slash, you would have seen a fraction--which would have disambiguated everything.

But if your profs had had you solve the following system of equations, you can bet they'd expect you to read the fraction "our" way rather than "your" way:

2x/3y = 1/3

4x/3y = 2/3

Go 'head--show this exact text to any high school or college math instructor and see what they say. What they'll say is, x=1 and y=2. (What you would say, incorrectly, is x=1/2 and y =1.)

For fun, ask them about the same problem but with the slashes changed to division symbols. Ask them if that makes a difference.

Almost certainly, their answer will be "why should it?" Juxtapositional multiplication precedence is that well-engrained into mathematicians' instincts.
Edited by Speusippus#1370 on 6/12/2012 1:45 PM PDT
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Just going to state this right now, the widely established Order of Operations is a widely accepted "standard." Considering math is something that breaks language barriers, this standard that everyone abides by in "almost" every scientific field is a beautiful thing. Deviating from this standard for arbitrary reasons is a huge breach in efficiency.
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Posts: 1,313
06/12/2012 01:45 PMPosted by SweetWilly
Just going to state this right now, the widely established Order of Operations is a widely accepted "standard." Considering math is something that breaks language barriers, this standard that everyone abides by in "almost" every scientific field is a beautiful thing. Deviating from this standard for arbitrary reasons is a huge breach in efficiency.


That's right. That is why you should be adhering to the standard convention that juxtaposed multiplications take precedence over divisions and other multiplications.
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Posts: 204
06/12/2012 01:46 PMPosted by Speusippus
Just going to state this right now, the widely established Order of Operations is a widely accepted "standard." Considering math is something that breaks language barriers, this standard that everyone abides by in "almost" every scientific field is a beautiful thing. Deviating from this standard for arbitrary reasons is a huge breach in efficiency.


That's right. That is why you should be adhering to the standard convention that juxtaposed multiplications take precedence over divisions and other multiplications.


Too bad that is NOT the standard convention. Everyone that has been saying this has yet to provide evidence of such.
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