Diablo® III

Azmodan the tactical genius....

06/14/2012 05:00 PMPosted by Melyria
only has 1 tactic.


He baited you into bringing the soulstone to Arreat. So one tactic is using himself as bait.

He spoiled the food stores of Bastion Keep. So that is the tactic of controlling resources.

He attacked from below as well as above. The tactic of the Pincer Movement.

He employed siege weaponry.

He employed superior numbers.

He employed the element of surprise.

He set up an impressive defense.

He uses more than one tactic. He uses several at once. Just because you've over simplified it doesn't make it true.


And then he whines about his defeat every time, right in your face through a mystical telegram.
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He set up an impressive defense.


The capstone of his "impressive defense" was having his girlfriend fight for him, only to die, rapidly.
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And lets be serious, he brought 3 ballistae and 1(one) trebuchet, maybe two siegebreakers and some fragile as all getout "hell bringers".

You know what I would have done were I Azmodan? Forged a letter requesting reinforcements at a nearby fort due to a sudden demon attack, waited a day, then walked into the keep with like no losses. Apparently in order to be a master tactician in Sanctuary all you gotta do is have a big army and smash it into walls like a 5 year old.
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06/27/2012 04:25 PMPosted by Liber
And then he whines about his defeat every time, right in your face through a mystical telegram.


No, he's demoralizing you.

About halfway through Act 3, when he told me about his catapults, and how I'd never destroy them, I was afraid to leave Bastion's keep. So, I came to the forums.
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85 Undead Warlock
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Posts: 7,033
06/28/2012 06:37 PMPosted by Thorgrey
then walked into the keep with like no losses.


Weren't his forces in the keep at one point though? you know, when they infiltrated it?
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06/28/2012 06:54 PMPosted by Elunih
then walked into the keep with like no losses.


Weren't his forces in the keep at one point though? you know, when they infiltrated it?


You're confusing "no losses" with "killed by nephalem"
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06/28/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Thorgrey


Weren't his forces in the keep at one point though? you know, when they infiltrated it?


You're confusing "no losses" with "killed by nephalem"

Yeah but we never actually close the breach they came in through, so as soon as we go out the front gate they should come right back in and gg it while we're gone.
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Guys, he actually had TWO tactics...

1) Brute force.
2) Telling us what he was going to do
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Guys, he actually had TWO tactics...

1) Brute force.
2) Telling us what he was going to do

3) Invincible Door.
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Here's the concept art for the siege:

http://us.media.blizzard.com/d3/media/artwork/artwork-0036-full.jpg

This would have probably qualified him. How did he fall so far?
Edited by Melancholy#1609 on 6/29/2012 1:50 PM PDT
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Here's the concept art for the siege:

http://us.media.blizzard.com/d3/media/artwork/artwork-0036-full.jpg

This would have probably qualified him. How did he fall so far?


Oh, I'm sure that's what the siege looked like.

Then they turned around and went behind Azmodan's Invincible Door™.
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Perhaps Azmodan would have seemed like more of a tactical genius if someone had explained the consequences of his actions. For example Tyrael explains that Ghom has destroyed all their food and the only thing that's preventing them starving to death today is that Azmodan had killed so many of their soldiers. That would have explained why everyone considered Azmodan a threat.
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Posts: 285
lol
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This is one of those threads that make no real sense. Azmodan was a general, and thats what he did in the game, play at being the general and he performed admirably, he assaulted from above and below, Bastion had no chance of really faceing him, he had creatures puked up on the walls. Siege weapons and siege beasts below, fliers. He basically had everything a modern general of today would love to have in any major combat, advantage in air and land, complete control of the battlefield. So why does he only have 1 tactic? that claim is unfounded.

Also, he never explains his plans. He tells you when he has already beaten you in the area he attempted, e.g. he was down below and he bragged about it. HIs demons were already in the keep and coming out from below. He says nothing that defeats his own plans, and he is, as stated already in this thread correct almost every time.
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28 Undead Warlock
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Posts: 674
The only problem I had with Azmodan was him holograming in every time we needed justification to do the next quest, would have been cool if it happened once. So he shows up at the beginning of the act (cinematic), Somewhere in the middle (hologram or otherwise), and then at the end for the fight. They also could have introduced his consort a little earlier, if only because I'm a huge Farscape fanboy :)

His tactics where sound though. If we hadn't been there to light the fires, raise the catapults, stop the incursion through the stores of the keep azmodan would have won.

Also, in my opinion there is a point where azmodan, belial, and the prime evil realize how powerful the nephalim really is though it may seem unclear or subtle. Remembering how powerful uldyssian was, I think they start to fear us.
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he should sends all of his 7 sins lieutenants to take over the keep..... instead he only use one and another one to guard the crater in case if the hero kill his last siege engine.
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And lets be serious, he brought 3 ballistae and 1(one) trebuchet, maybe two siegebreakers and some fragile as all getout "hell bringers".

You know what I would have done were I Azmodan? Forged a letter requesting reinforcements at a nearby fort due to a sudden demon attack, waited a day, then walked into the keep with like no losses. Apparently in order to be a master tactician in Sanctuary all you gotta do is have a big army and smash it into walls like a 5 year old.

to be honest, 3 ballistae and 1 trebuchet is just so un-realistic. but he brought more than just 2 siegebrakers. if you look closely in the skycrown battlements or the place where you raise the catapults, you can see many siegebreakers heading toward the walls.
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06/28/2012 06:38 PMPosted by LittleDisco
No, he's demoralizing you.


It's really not working.
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From my point of view, the whole siege idea looks written by a person who didnt even have a clue about warfare or even history.

Azmodan has to lose, eventually, or else we wont have a nice ending. But the way he loses is too much stupid for the way he is supposed to act.

A couple of mistakes i noticed besides what everyone has said already.

1) History has shown that fortified structures provide a huge advantage in a defense. The only efficient way to siege a fortified position is wearing out the structures with constant siege weaponry, cutting supplies, and forcing the enemy to come out or die locked up in is own stronghold. And NEVER, NEVER, go full frontal assault while the defenses are still up, even if you have ten times the number of units than the enemy. The guy who wrote the script didn't even read about the battle of troy, one of the most known. The greeks had to finally resort to the horse idea because after days of sending thousands of soldiers to die they couldnt take down the walls.

2) The whole act is a constant win for the hero, we never lose a battle, we always go forward and crushing stuff. In real warfare, sometimes you win a position, and sometimes you lose it. The whole act looks like the hero started at the worst moment and just went up from there to the end, with no drawbacks, no bad situations, not even thinking if he was going to lose, because he is actually steamrolling every single issue that comes at him.

Yes, the keep is breached, yes, the soldiers are slain, but.. you just keep winning like those things are just "acceptable losses". I wish there was a moment in the act where tyrael would say "!@#$, we are screwed, what do we do now?" at least for a minute.

Picture helm's deep in LOTR, Theoden is soo convinced he is going to win the first 15 minutes, he boasts that the keep in unbreachable, a minute later a suicidal uruk-hai crushes half the wall of the side of the keep by using a nicely placed powder keg, next thing you are seeing is Theoden's 'ooops' face, and running for his life. Bastion's keep's walls seem made of adamantium... because they can withstand the fire of siege weapons during the lighting of the signals, the raising of the catapults, the whole time spent on finding the breach, and the time till you destroy the ballistae. Seriously?

Only those two things added to not telling what should we do everytime, and the siege would have looked more real.
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02/08/2013 06:52 AMPosted by Xavriel
And NEVER, NEVER, go full frontal assault while the defenses are still up, even if you have ten times the number of units than the enemy. The guy who wrote the script didn't even read about the battle of troy, one of the most known. The greeks had to finally resort to the horse idea because after days of sending thousands of soldiers to die they couldnt take down the walls.


Medieval warfare was also a testament to this.
Even if you had several times you opponent's numbers, a frontal attack against a fortress could damage your strength so bad that you don't have enough men to keep it or maintain it.

02/08/2013 06:52 AMPosted by Xavriel
In real warfare, sometimes you win a position, and sometimes you lose it.


I can't remember the exact location, but during Stalingrad, there was a very important building that changed hands several times, sometimes during the same day, sometimes with Germans on the upper levels, shooting down at the Russians on the lower floors.

02/08/2013 06:52 AMPosted by Xavriel
Only those two things added to not telling what should we do everytime, and the siege would have looked more real.


Very nice post, sir. Very nice indeed.
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