Get the Desktop App for Battle.net Now
- All your games in 1 place
- Log in once
- Automatic game updates
1. Wasn't the whole point of the current talent trees to encourage/allow players to use different builds? To be able to change without having to roll a new character, or to play as they desire?
2. Why then, does NV get removed for changing skills? Does this not do the opposite--encourage all players to use a cookie-cutter spec? A spec that is well rounded for the most situations?
3. What's the point of having unique affixes/combinations? With the current system it makes it so certain affixes punish specific classes, rather than inefficient builds.
4. If NV was not removed upon respeccing, would this not encourage players to play with the build they prefer, as well as add levels of gameplay where the goal is to respec to what is most appropriate, rather than simply making due with what you'll want to use once the fight is over?
5. If NV didn't exist, I could see the swappable talent system working as the way it feels it was intended (i.e., think of leveling--talents were swapped constantly to try new things or adapt to situations--no guilt or drawbacks).
6. But because NV does exist, it only adds a layer of frustration---do I use the correct talents, or do I keep the buff?
7. From my understanding of the blizzard posts thus far, the purpose of NV was to make fighting champion packs the most efficient way to find gear. How then, does removing the buff upon skill changing support this goal?
Edited by Zxc#1460 on 6/14/2012 10:15 PM PDT
I'm not really following what this could possibly accomplish.
You see a pack of champions, look at the creature type and affix combo and set up your spec to fight it. 5 minutes later, you have them down and 1 stack of NV.
Now you're in a spec that is most likely useless for moving through the rest of the dungeon, or facing the next pack of champs.
Do you now drop the NV buff and respec again? Or try to progress with a spec that may be terrible for the situation?
couple of things.
the reason NV is removed when you change skills isnt to get you to go into a cookie cutter spec.. on my barbarian in act 3 inferno i use a very interesting build that is completely unlike ive seen most barbs using or say they are using on these forums.
Its meant to KEEP you from optimizing your build for every single champion pack you come across. They want you to choose a style for your character and then run with it getting gear and skills based around how you want to play.
Anyone who thinks they are stuck in a "cookie cutter" build in this game are just doing things wrong. I really hate to tell people that but its the truth. I have been able to play a monk a witch doc and a barb up to 60 well into inferno and completely stay away from the "cookie cutter" things people are doing.
There is a double layer NV adds to the game. First it makes you be confident in your build before you go out farming. You need to ask yourself "does this spec stand up enough against enough things to be viable or am i giong to need to change halfway through" if the answer is no then something is wrong. You are not meant to be able to take on ALL things equally well but ALL specs CAN take on ALL things its just your going to be more effective against some things then others.
My barb does amazing AOE DPS but suffers against single targets.. so when i come across invuln minions i have to adapt my tactics on the fly within the constraints of my spec which involves alot of hit and run. However against something such as molten/plague i can dive head first into them and obliterate the entire group before those affixes even become an issue.
You cant have it all and neph valor being removed on skill swap enforces that.
It is most certainly not the end of the world, however, the system of rewarding players for not adapting simply encourages them (and for some may feel almost mandatory in a min/max way) to eliminate a huge layer of gameplay: respeccing when needed.
I'm not sure how the system of losing the buff when changing specs works in with their gameplay goals, which I thought included specific things:
1. Champ packs being the most efficient way to gear
2. Swappable / interchangable talent trees
Currently, these two feel at odds with eachother.
You are intended to be able to make a character of any build you want without having to relevel a character. You are not intended to change that build from one elite pack to the next based what you feel is "optimal" for each pack.
1. Champ packs being the most efficient way to gear
how so? they want you to be able to freely experiment builds and then make a hard choice before you start magic finding. NV also gives people an additional incentive to explore the world.
Anyone who thinks they are stuck in a "cookie cutter" build in this game are just doing things wrong. I really hate to tell people that but its the truth. I have been able to play a monk a witch doc and a barb up to 60 well into inferno and completely stay away from the "cookie cutter" things people are doing
thats the point, maybe minus the AH part
You can use whatever spec
is the goal of D3 skill system, i guess you just confirmed that Blizzard did it right
Edited by Tagle#1471 on 6/14/2012 10:36 PM PDT
couple of things.
Hmm, you make some good points. On the classes you've played, how do you feel about the skill/rune combos?
Do you feel like the majority of skill/rune combos could fit nicely into any spec? Or are some of them just completely inferior or way to specialized to be used outside of limited situations?
For my main (wizard), I'd say about half of my bar stays the same no matter how I want to adjust it--there's just a few things that I move around based on the situation.
Sometimes I want teleport, sometimes I dont. If I do, its either wormhole or fracture.
I almost always want hydra, I prefer arcane unless its a boss, then I want venom.
Force Armor is mandatory.
Magic Weapon always stays, and Force Weapon is the only rune I'd want.
I've swapped my signature spell dozens of times, but always come back to MM: Seeker.
As I go I make minor variations to my spec, but everytime I go a little too far, I get reminded that outside of specific situations, its not going to happen for me. I can go farm Act I with some silly specs, but not after that--and even then, if I'm pushing too far away champ packs remind me why.
For me, it seems that with the current system, I'm discouraged from using those opportunities to break out spell combos I wouldn't normally run for everyday grinding/questing, such as Ray of Frost/Cold Blooded
Hm, I guess I hadn't thought of it in those terms. I was thinking of a post I had read before where they said something about how they didn't like the system in D2, where you would run into something that was immune--lets say cold immune and you're a cold sorc--and they wanted people to be able to adjust without having to reset/leave/bring friends, so I was thinking that some intent was there to be able to change on the fly.
As for making the hard choice before you start the grind, still, I get the impression that for many players, they'll be making many of the same choices over and over and the majority of their spell/runes will never see the light of day, because most of the time they'll want something that feels 'okay' or 'balanced' for just about anything. (unless they have very specific gear to let them build differently, like a spectral blade wizard)
Actually, the intent of Nephalem Valor is for you to continually throw yourself at elite/champion packs that you have little chance of beating in hopes that the overwhelming frustration will cause you to break down and buy something from the RMAH so you can farm crappy rares that barely pass as vendor trash.
After all, Blizzard has to pay their bills somehow, amirite?
@OP: I didnt think of it that way. I always tot of the current skill system as option to try out different builds for an entire run, not 1 build for each type of creatures. Admittedly the flexibility (amount of builds possible) could be tweaked a little (mostly by gearing up), but it sure beats needing to lvl another char just to try whether a certain build works as in D2/many other games.
Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.
Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.
Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.