Diablo® III

Rain of Toads + Soul Harvest

Am I the only one that really enjoys this ability? It's great CC and super-low Mana cost.

I use it well into the 40's and in other situations later on.

AoE with excellent damage and you combine it with a x5 multiplier with Soul harvest, this is a beastly attack.

Anyone else use this and enjoy it?

Side Note: Also fun to rain toads on your friends and getting those 'ewwwww' responses. :D

Side, Side Note: I <3 this with Roll the Bones as well.
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what about 60?
I'm A3i and I still rock harvest and RoT. No real issues here.
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I still use RoT on 60 when I solo.
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I remember having 15k DPS at level 50 and thinking wow Witch Doctor will be awesome in inferno

:)
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06/15/2012 11:32 AMPosted by kazdum
I have bad news for you when you hit 60


Rain of Toads is perfectly viable, some people say.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5592459114

I haven't tried it myself though. As far as Soul Harvest, it's reaaaaally hard to use when you get up there, just because people wack you so hard.

I'm glad you're enjoying Rain of Toads though. :) I personally love Lob Blob Bomb, and I never hear anyone talking about that one.
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I have bad news for you when you hit 60


Rain of Toads is perfectly viable, some people say.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5592459114

I haven't tried it myself though. As far as Soul Harvest, it's reaaaaally hard to use when you get up there, just because people wack you so hard.

I'm glad you're enjoying Rain of Toads though. :) I personally love Lob Blob Bomb, and I never hear anyone talking about that one.


Yup, big fan of both. To me, WD is a CC class so going with single damage (unless fighting a boss) isn't that helpful. Watching me waste 20 enemies with ease in a scream of 'ribbits' brings a warmth to my cold heart.

Good to see many saying it is viable to 60. I play mostly Hardcore and my Witch Doctor is Softcore so he hasn't done the leveling he could have.
Edited by RSQViper#1208 on 6/15/2012 12:04 PM PDT
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I dunno about that...

I don't use THE splinter build, but I do use my trusty blowdart.

Problem with the normal splinter build is that you can only attack 1 guy (as the build doesn't really include AoE damage) at 180% a click. I can hit 10 guys at at 100% with lingering blobs that do 25% a pulse.

Not saying mine is better than splinter, but splinter can take on bosses/champs/elites faster, while I can take on groups literally in seconds.

It's apples to oranges. Personal preference, and all that. From what I gather, the main reason people like RoT so much is that it procs on-hit effects very quickly, and the Toad DoT stacks. Which means you can get millions of ticks for chances to proc on-hit effects.

Not saying everything is viable, but correctly built, it's definitely better than a sacrificial dog build. :)
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I use splinters for single targets, and and RoT for AoE or extra damage against single targets. The toad raid hits pretty well, and casting 3-4 of them over a large area can make good AoE. I think it's a pretty good spell.
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The reason any plague of toads spell is not as effective at level 60 is mana efficiency. Most WD like to stack attack speed to lower casting animations and increase number of casts. This is a huge drain on mana.

Poison Dart 10 mana
Plague of Toads 34 mana

You can shoot 3 splinters for 540% damage, can hit off screen
or you can use 1 rain of toads for 130% damage in 2 seconds, can not hit off screen

as you can see splinters are much better for kiting and more efficient at dealing damage
rain of toads has the advantage of being able to hit multiple enemies and can go "over" walls.

In the end its your personal preference but numerically splinters is more effecient

Edit:
I thought in my comparison it was understood that I was using 3 casts of splinters (a total of 9 individual splinters) for 30 mana thus 540% damage or the cost of 1 plague of toads which is 34 mana. This was a comparison of mana efficiency.
Edited by spookerz#1416 on 6/15/2012 4:21 PM PDT
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The reason any plague of toads spell is not as effective at level 60 is mana efficiency. Most WD like to stack attack speed to lower casting animations and increase number of casts. This is a huge drain on mana.

Poison Dart 10 mana
Plague of Toads 34 mana

You can shoot 3 splinters for 540% damage, can hit off screen
or you can use 1 rain of toads for 130% damage in 2 seconds, can not hit off screen

as you can see splinters are much better for kiting and more efficient at dealing damage
rain of toads has the advantage of being able to hit multiple enemies and can go "over" walls.

In the end its your personal preference but numerically splinters is more effecient


I think you're off in that assessment. It's 60% damage per shot, for 3 shots. Not 180% per shot, for 3 shots.

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/poison-dart

It's more like saying it's 130% AoE with huge mana cost, or 180% single target with nearly no mana cost.

Just depends on how much mana regen you have, or are willing to sacrifice for.
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100 Human Rogue
13160
Posts: 22
I use Splinters/Toads. Horrify,Spirit Walk,Grasp, and Wall and its perfectly viable up through act 3 inferno at least. Nothing like pulling mass amounts of mobs into a wall +grasp and plopping 3-4 toad spam then darts. This is also my burst on elite/rare packs as well. Even on solo bosses i find frontloading with toads helpful or while running its easier to drop a toad than a set of splinters, especially when dodging any ranged attacks.

Theres a difference between effeciency and viable that people don't seem to understand. Personally i prefer running with the toads over hex for most of the trash clearing and i can still down the same elite packs that i would with hex.
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No you're misunderstanding me. Each splinter hits for 60% weapon damage. Each cast of splinter shoots 3 splinters.

Poison Dart
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/poison-dart

Splinters shoot 3 Poison Darts that deal 60% weapon damage as Poison each.

60 x 3 = 180% weapon damage total for 10 mana

plague of toads
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/plague-of-toads
Rain of Toads Cause toads to rain from the sky that deal 130% weapon damage as Poison to enemies in the area over 2 seconds.

130/2 = 65 weapon damage per second for 34 mana

34/10 = 3.4

3.4x100 = 340% more mana efficienct than Rain of Toads

Therefore you can actually shoot 3.4 splinters for every Rain Of Toads

180 x 3.4 = 612% weapon damage for 34 mana vs 130% weapon damage for 34 mana

So yes it is actually even better than I initially stated.

The aoe on plague of toads is relatively small.
Edited by spookerz#1416 on 6/15/2012 2:38 PM PDT
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06/15/2012 01:48 PMPosted by spookerz
The aoe on plague of toads is relatively small.


But it's still an AoE. If you are hitting 3 or 4 enemies then the amount of mana drain is negligible. But you can easily hit 6+ enemies in packs which means as CC, the RoT is 2x more efficient and the more enemies, the more efficient.
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100 Human Rogue
13160
Posts: 22
your logic is flawed. In the time i can cast 1 splinters i can get off 3-4 toad causts (they stack) and they will tick for a significant amount, probably equal to splinter crits as normal ticks. Also while being less mana effecient than splinter, you can endlessly spam splinters all day so the benefit in toads is using it together with splinters. Its front loaded damage. You dont keep the toads running 100%, i generally pop 3-4 casts every 5-10 seconds when dpsing. Since my dps is generally limited to the 5 second burst when i have zombie wall up and rooting elites in place, it makes the damage done much better than just spamming splinters alone. While kiting your mana will go back up and i also use honored guest with my spirit walk so that i regen mana. I find often times i can just pop spirit walk offensively if im in good position to get the extra mana for more toad spams.

Im not saying toads vs splinters is better, im saying you use toads to compliment splinters and it provides significantly more damage than splinters alone while still being able to keep up enough mana. I do not have mana issues and im not even running any regen items currently.
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100 Human Rogue
13160
Posts: 22
even single target while my crit damage per splinter is 40-50k my toad spam at full stacks can tick up to around 40k for 2 ticks at least, longer if you continue using it on the move. splinters is definitely the most efficient but when you stay full mana spamming splinters then toads provide a frontloaded dps increase. As well as completely obliterating large packs of normal mobs. I personally hate the archers in act 3 or the spear throwers. Using 2-3 toad casts while popping around a corner and back out of LOS will kill these irritating mobs instead of having to worry about strafing back and forth with splinters.
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06/15/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Phrenikk
In the time i can cast 1 splinters i can get off 3-4 toad causts (they stack) and they will tick for a significant amount


No you can't.
Yes the Rain of Toads casting animations is faster than splinters but it is not 4-5 times faster.
And if you include the delay from the time the casting animation is done to the time the toads actually hit there is no difference at all.

Attack speed only decreases casting animations
It does not increase the number of ticks of damage during a Rain of Toads

We've established Rain of Toads does 65 weapon damage per second for 2 seconds. It ticks 4 times or every 0.5 seconds for a total of 32.5 weapon damage per tick.

Anyways like I said use what you like but splinters are irrefutably better single target more efficient dps.
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I use Rain of toads in inferno act 2. It's a great ability combined with life on hit and tank gear. I maintanked the end of act two with 3 other players in the party. It requires lots of resistances and armor though, and will gimp your DPS.
Edited by Uslig#2688 on 6/15/2012 2:32 PM PDT
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100 Human Rogue
13160
Posts: 22
You obviously dont know how fast the toad animation is, its easy to get 3 stacks up BEFORE darts can go off twice(and when i say twice i mean 2 full animations of 6 darts). I would dare say the casting animation for toads is 2x faster than splinters which would mean i get out 3 toad casts in roughly 1.5 splinter casts. Breaking this down for you, 3 casts of toads = 390% weapon damage, while 1.5 casts of splinters = 270% damage. We could even push it farther and say that i could cast 3 toads in the time it takes to cast 2 splinters and that would be 360% weapon damage(splinters) vs 390% damage(toads). Thats me claiming at worst, toads is 33% faster cast time than spinters, and at best 50% faster. In either scenario toads comes out ahead.
Now aside from that point, this is on a single target scenario. Bring in the case where most people are interested, which is elite packs or rare packs 3-4 mobs, Toads is exponentially better. (3 casts = 390% weapon damage per target *3 targets = 1170 % damage over 2 seconds, or with 4 targets 1560% weapon damage over 2 seconds vs splinters static damage of lets say 4 casts in 2 seconds which would be 180*4=720).

Now since i broke it down for you, please explain how toad damage is inferior to splinters and is not a viable spell?
Edited by Phrenik#1812 on 6/15/2012 2:47 PM PDT
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