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OK, as title says, I want to know, whether the FIRST hit with +cold damage weapon applies the 15% bonus to total dmg, or you have to really hit already chilled/snared target to get that bonus. Logic says that 15% dmg bonus from Cull the Weak applies only to hitting already chilled/snared target, but Blizzard could have made it the way it first applies debuff (chill/snare) and then damage, even though it looks like damage and snare was applied at the same time ingame.
Pretty sure the slow is applied after.
It's unfortunate but actually not too meaningful. You're usually slowing with Caltrops anyway, and if you're running a spec that uses this (presumably you have Frost Arrow in your build), you're probably spamming frost arrow 5-6+ times when you're attacking anyway.
I got this reply on EU forums:
Yes - like the Wizard passive Cold Blooded the damage bonus applies on the first hit ... (you will notice when doing cold attacks - tooltip reads snared first and damage number for the attack after)
How I tested ...
Crossbow with 78-78 physical damage range (doctored with +min physical damage items)
Normal Attack damage
78 * (1 + 7.16) = 636.48 (636)
Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow (155% first hit 170% secondary hits)
78 * (1 + 7.16) * 1.55 = 986.544 (987)
78 * (1 + 7.16) * 1.7 = 1082.016 (1082)
Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow (155% first hit 170% secondary hits) WITH Cull the weak
78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * 1.55 = 1134.5256 (1135)
78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * 1.7 = 1244.3184 (1244)
So skills that do cold damage (Ex. Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow) or physical damage with cold damage range on weapon (Ex hungering arrow ) will always get the 15% damage bonus from Cull the weak ...
Last test - adding a regular damage modifier (steady aim 20%) to see how it interacts with the bonus from cull the weak...
Elemental Arrow - Frost Arrow (155% first hit 170% secondary hits) WITH Cull the weak & Steady Aim (20%)
78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2) * 1.55 = 1361.43072
78 * (1 + 7.16) * (1 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2) * 1.7 = 1493.18208
As expected the bonus from Cull the weak (15%) is applied to the base damage before the sum of regular damage multipliers (archery, steady aim, ..) (similar to Cold Blooded for wizard) and is thus multiplied by them ...
TL;DR - Chill effect applies before actual damage, so even the FIRST hit has 15% bonus dmg with Cull the Weak.
Cull the weak multiplies with steady aim? I would have expected them to add.
Do you know what the interaction is between skill dmg, cull, steady aim, hunters mark, and archery with a bow? Surely some of them add instead of multiplying.
From previous post you can see Cull the Weak passive is MULTIPLICATIVE to other bonuses, Steady Aim + Archery bonus for bows are ADDITIVE, you can check it by opening DETAILS page in inventory, there is "Damage Increased by Skills" entry, if you have both Steady Aim and Archery (with bow) ON, you shoud see 35.00% there. And I don't know what do you mean by "hunters mark", if it's Marked for Death, this probably is MULTIPLICATIVE too, I think of it as of lowering monsters armor/resistances, thus making flat +12% damage.
Are you 100% sure of this? Just seems weird that it behaves different than other passives.
edit - Just noticed you got this reply from someone else who tested (thought you were testing on first read).
Edited by jaegybomb#1737 on 6/23/2012 8:03 AM PDT
Makes sense to me, the passives, that give you bonus all the time (Archery + Bow - 15% dmg) and with proximity check (10 yards for Steady Aim - 20% dmg) are listed in DETAILS window in your inventory, and thus are ADDITIVE to each other, Cull the Weak is different. But, well, I was testing it myself, but not that thoroughly, and not with exact numbers, I just found out that thing about first hit damage.
sources that are not alike are multiplied
a debuff on the ground/mark 1.12 * passive condition met for DH 1.15 * steady aim buff condition met 1.2 =
having Cold on a weapon is good for dh, kite slow + 15% (make sure the skill doesn't convert the damage to another element so that it still snares)
bonus which transfers cold, with Hunger as well as NT btw
take the weapons DPS and just imagine it is x1.15 because that is how it works IF you use COTW as well
even ES will apply the CoTW bonus to its damage on the very first hit.
steady aim + archery(bow) however are additive, the DPS tooltip confirms that as well
Can you test marked for death + cull the weak + damage to elites?
they are not the same modifier,
one is a debuff on the mob that helps all(mark)
one is a buff from your item
one is a condition met from a passive
of course it works on ES..., you can test this with an initiates hand bow, a single +min damage ring naked lvl 60, and some very simple impales on some act1 champ - Neochrome explained how easy this is to actually do
slows/snares give 15% more damage
Edited by zoid#1554 on 6/24/2012 1:19 PM PDT
So cull the weak does not work w/ rapid fire !@#$, web shot or entangling shot?
Cull the Weak works primarily with these, my question was, if it works even for the first shot on UNSNARED monster. And it WORKS. And since +cold dmg/caltrops/entanglig shot/rapid fire - webshot, they all give SNARE debuff to monster you hit, it all works well with Cull the Weak. But be aware, that some skills will change your damage type to Arcane/Fire/Poison etc, so your +cold dmg weapon's attack will be converted to whatever it says in skill description.
Actually MULTIPLICATION between Cull the Weak and (for example) Steady Aim is even slightly better than ADDITION, by 0.03
Addition would be: 1 + 0.15 (Cull the Weak) + 0.20 (Steady Aim) = 1.35
Multiplication is: (1 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.20) = 1.38
Hope this makes things clearer.
Edited by Neochrome#2139 on 6/25/2012 4:38 PM PDT
Any idea if this also works with Fan of Knives?
Since it works with Caltrops, Entangling Shot, and Frost Arrow... along with other skills... Im assuming the snare from Fan of Knives is also applied first and will benefit from the 15% damage from Cull of the Weak?
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