Diablo® III

Constructive Feedback (Collaboration)

90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942
06/20/2012 05:41 PMPosted by Herbburglar
I feel to some degree, the intent of NV is to compensate players for no longer gaining character power by levels. If true, then it makes some sense for it to be level 60 only. One thing related to NV I would like to see, though, is if the skill lock was removed -- but more than that, they should actually encourage us to switch skills situationally, rather than punishing us for doing so.

Nephalem Valor was really meant to be a reward for sticking to your spec. It's not really supposed to be a required aspect of gameplay.

It's there to make you think about what you're speccing as so you're not just flopping skills to overcome every single situation.

This might also be why they only allow you to collect Nephalem Valor at level 60 since you're given an opportunity to test drive your skills first.
85 Tauren Druid
7620
Posts: 25,705

Nephalem Valor was really meant to be a reward for sticking to your spec. It's not really supposed to be a required aspect of gameplay.

It's there to make you think about what you're speccing as so you're not just flopping skills to overcome every single situation.


Honestly, I don't feel that sticking to your spec is really a good design decision when you have a design based around a fairly narrow set of practical choices. If you're going to go with narrow choices, they should encourage people to situationally swap them out just to provide more gameplay depth.

Sticking to your build seems to make more sense when you have a greater depth of choice.
90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942

Nephalem Valor was really meant to be a reward for sticking to your spec. It's not really supposed to be a required aspect of gameplay.

It's there to make you think about what you're speccing as so you're not just flopping skills to overcome every single situation.


Honestly, I don't feel that sticking to your spec is really a good design decision when you have a design based around a fairly narrow set of practical choices. If you're going to go with narrow choices, they should encourage people to situationally swap them out just to provide more gameplay depth.

Sticking to your build seems to make more sense when you have a greater depth of choice.

I think the problem right now is the skills still aren't quite balanced. A lot of them need completely revamped to even be worthwhile. (For example Energy Twister, that skill and all of the runes are completely worthless and NOBODY takes it)

I have a feeling once 1.1.0 rolls around some of these issues might be addressed.

At Blizzcon they found that most people actually had their skills window open the entire time and were just swapping skills in and out on the fly.

So limiting players to 6 slots really felt worthless.

The entire design was based around the point where you had to synergize your build. It's not really about stacking all of the most powerful spells into one build, it's about finding a balance between defense, offense, and buffs / debuffs.

Right now it feels like players are punished because most of your skills aren't really that worthwhile.

On the flip side though, this also addressed a glaring concern with Diablo 2 that was that a player was limited to a single build once they leveled up. There was no freedom to try anything new except to just create a brand new toon.

I personally feel Diablo 3's approach to this issue is a step in the right direction. However, since you can't just dump however many points you want into a skill, they still have to do some major tweaking to bring all skills in line with one another.

It may be an impossible goal, but I feel they might be able to accomplish it come 1.1.0. I just really hope they have a PTR for it instead of just doing everything internally.
90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942
Any more suggestions to add to the first post?

It seems I had inadvertently reserved a 2nd spot so I can add more suggestions if the first post fills up.
90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942
Updated.

Also since the trolls went home can this thread actually be seen! I HOPE SO!
90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942
06/20/2012 10:36 PMPosted by lofung
did you even see how constructive the sc2 players are?

At constructing additional pylons?
58 Goblin Death Knight
160
Posts: 3,237
Free bump for OP providing a constructive post with good ideas.
1.
Repair costs of 3x I feel would be about right. I am a fairly good player if I do say so myself... however Being caught by surprise and paying 5-7k per death? I teleport to a wp that has a yellow mob on it and BOOM dead. Feels a bit unfair honestly. If I die once per yellow or blue mob I am losing money currently (however if it were 3x the original I feel like while progressing through the game 1 death per would lead simply to breaking even)
The reason I bring this up isn't cause of farming, but simple while progressing I AM good enough, and I feel like one death per group isn't a bad player. I don't wear magic or gold find gear cause... i am trying to play through acts not find gear to sell.

2. Combinations of Affixes.

My melee charactors have issues with 1 and only 1 combo that I think is truely unfair (instead of just super hard)
Plague/Immune(shield)/Reflect damage/(insert whatever here)

My ranged feel like there is a nearly impossible combination as well.
Frozen/vortex/immune(shield)/fast (though jailer might affect mages I dont play mine... i play my dh who can actually break the cc)

3.
Needed gold pretty badly so since I occasionally died in inferno act 1, I chose to change over to Hell. Thought ggetting act 4 done should be easy. Didn't realize the uniques would drop nothing. Was even in MF gear with full stacks. I was more than a little sad realizing not even izual dropped gear. Not one unique dropped anything of use. Why are uniques so pointless? I got more gear off normal mobs than I did off uniques in that run. Made my run for gold slow cause they slowed me down as much as most blue mobs with no reward... at all. Feels silly, I really don't understand.

4.
The server latency is high. !@#$ happens I guess, but would love to see it get better.

5. The higher gems seem to cost way out of balance. I feel like even a 20% in prices would make me wanna make some. Right now? No way I can afford that especially with repairs. It's the one gold sink I think would work... but it can't cause most people (casual gamers are indeed most people) can't afford it.

Just my opinions. I understand that blizzard has design goals.. but I feel these points are valid, feel free to tell me if you disagree.

(as posted elsewhere)
Posts: 12
I can't even say how refreshing it is to see a thread that isn't completely based on flaming.

One thing I've noticed about the changes made so far is that bugs seem to be getting created more readily than issues are being fixed. I'll admit that I'm biased (because of zombie bears), so I won't go on at length.

I would just encourage Blizzard to remember that bugs are game functions that are not working as intended (just like Magic-Find is a mechanic that isn't working as intended). Functions and mechanics both need love.

Overall, I think the feedback provided in this thread so far is neat and a lot of it sounds fun, but I want to make sure I say that I really do enjoy the game the way that it's currently evolving.

Edit:
One other idea I had was about socketing. I think an *extremely* limited way of adding sockets to items would be neat. The other day I was thinking of the LoD quest that, as a reward, allowed a socket to be added to an item. LoD didn't allow replaying quests, so this amounted to three sockets added per character. Since stashes are shared, quests are repeatable, and there's a total of four difficulties, something only accessible in Hell and beyond (or even Inferno and beyond) would allow players to add a socket to that absolutely fantastic ilvl63 weapon they found and never intend to sell, without things getting completely out-of-hand.
Edited by shade#1556 on 6/20/2012 10:51 PM PDT
90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942
1.
Repair costs of 3x I feel would be about right. I am a fairly good player if I do say so myself... however Being caught by surprise and paying 5-7k per death? I teleport to a wp that has a yellow mob on it and BOOM dead. Feels a bit unfair honestly. If I die once per yellow or blue mob I am losing money currently (however if it were 3x the original I feel like while progressing through the game 1 death per would lead simply to breaking even)
The reason I bring this up isn't cause of farming, but simple while progressing I AM good enough, and I feel like one death per group isn't a bad player. I don't wear magic or gold find gear cause... i am trying to play through acts not find gear to sell.

2. Combinations of Affixes.

My melee charactors have issues with 1 and only 1 combo that I think is truely unfair (instead of just super hard)
Plague/Immune(shield)/Reflect damage/(insert whatever here)

My ranged feel like there is a nearly impossible combination as well.
Frozen/vortex/immune(shield)/fast (though jailer might affect mages I dont play mine... i play my dh who can actually break the cc)

3.
Needed gold pretty badly so since I occasionally died in inferno act 1, I chose to change over to Hell. Thought ggetting act 4 done should be easy. Didn't realize the uniques would drop nothing. Was even in MF gear with full stacks. I was more than a little sad realizing not even izual dropped gear. Not one unique dropped anything of use. Why are uniques so pointless? I got more gear off normal mobs than I did off uniques in that run. Made my run for gold slow cause they slowed me down as much as most blue mobs with no reward... at all. Feels silly, I really don't understand.

4.
The server latency is high. !@#$ happens I guess, but would love to see it get better.

5. The higher gems seem to cost way out of balance. I feel like even a 20% in prices would make me wanna make some. Right now? No way I can afford that especially with repairs. It's the one gold sink I think would work... but it can't cause most people (casual gamers are indeed most people) can't afford it.

Just my opinions. I understand that blizzard has design goals.. but I feel these points are valid, feel free to tell me if you disagree.

(as posted elsewhere)

Nah, they're quite good points.

However, I was attempting to bring suggestions to the table that the Development team isn't already aware of.

If they adjust the durability loss for character actions it would help combat the extremely high repair bills. The aim is to keep you from throwing yourself at a pack of mobs or a boss. It may seem like it hurts now, but if they adjust how much durability loss you take for performing actions it will help curb it.

Also as another player mentioned, added a repair shrine and or allowing health globes to have a chance to repair your gear would also help curb the hurt.

Since the change hurts the players that are legitimately playing the game just as much as those repeatedly throwing themselves at an enemy, I think the players who are actually playing the game should be rewarded a little bit better.

I don't think we're going to get them to take back the repair bills, but we might be surprised.
I like this post. The ideas are neatly organized and make sense. Here's a bump.
Bump.
I'm not directly suggesting any changes in my post. I'm pointing out why feedback and communication with blues is utterly failing right now.

I know it's long but read and bump if you can.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889220366?page=1

I really hope that it can help in some way to break this pattern that the forums and CM's are getting into.
90 Gnome Warlock
7415
Posts: 15,942
06/20/2012 10:46 PMPosted by Ian
One thing I've noticed about the changes made so far is that bugs seem to be getting created more readily than issues are being fixed. I'll admit that I'm biased (because of zombie bears), so I won't go on at length.

Yeah, rubber banding is still apparent in the game as well.

Not to mention your switch hero button COMPLETELY disappearing.

If you would like to take a peek at what Vasadan has already collected feel free to peruse this sticky.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4916972036

Lots of feedback has already been collected and Blizzard is promptly looking into the issues mentioned in that thread.
Great summary; I'll leave my spiel here in this thread too for maximum visibility.

Original:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889219786?page=10#185

Lylirra:
(For you) what would make affix combos more fun, but still be reasonably challenging? Keep in mind that we don't expect players to be able to easily kill everything they come across the first time, every time in the later difficulties.

This question is open to anyone reading along. If you have suggestions or thoughts, please chime in!


Don't stack affixes on pell mell, random mish mash.
  • This makes devastating, unbeatable combos possible.
  • This makes every fight turn out almost the same.
  • Re: point 2, when every pack has 4 chances to roll, and roughly half of all affixes are of the "dropping things on the ground" variety, this forces everyone into kiting unless they have trivialized the content already. Almost every. single. fight. will have things on the ground to avoid. Some are different then others (arcane vs frozen vs desecrator, for ex), but in the end it's very similar.

    Solution: Categorize every affix. For example, Offense, Defense, Mobility. Add a 4th affix from a random category for Inferno. This way, every pack has a unique and varied set of abilities. Getting a stupidly devastating combo like Waller/Fast/Vortex/Fire Chains is now much less likely, and the uniqueness of every fight goes up as well. And you get all of this without having to directly address each affix or nerf anything (and there are some that should be addressed, but this improves the entire system).

    example categories:
  • Offense: Plagued, Desecrator, Mortar, Arcane, Fire Chains, Horde
  • Defense: Shielding, Knockback, Nightmarish, Electrified, Vampiric, Extra Health, Health Link
  • Mobility: Fast, Teleport, Jailer, Vortex, Waller (I've included the ones that affect the PC's mobility as well)
  • I also suggest barring certain affixes from being stacked with each other, like Vortex/Nightmarish/Jailer/*, since that amount of unavoidable stuff is impossible to counter by any class regardless of player skill level. Seeing a frozen orb a half second too late and getting caught is one thing, and we can kick ourselves for not being on the ball... being sent running, then being rooted, then pulled back to the pack, all without warning and with nothing you can do about it, is not fun, and may turn your players bald from hair pulling.
  • By picking one off of each list, you guaruntee an interesting fight. There are still some extremely powerful combos. There are still some facerolling combos. But the variety of each encounter is undeniably increased. By aggregated chance combined with the large number of ground effect affixes, just randomly piling things on leads to nothing more then filling the screen with stuff. This is not a Bullet Hell style of game; I can play those for free and it doesn't take a massive company like Blizzard to make one. More stuff does not automatically equal more challenging, nor does it equal more fun. Paradoxical that something randomized produces a homogenous result, but that is what you've created. That needs to be addressed first and foremost, and it will simultaneously address lots of other problems as well.

    ps yes I posted this in elsewhere as well. I want to raise the likelihood that a blue will see it.
    Edited by Rhyse#1284 on 6/20/2012 11:36 PM PDT
    90 Gnome Warlock
    7415
    Posts: 15,942
    I'm not directly suggesting any changes in my post. I'm pointing out why feedback and communication with blues is utterly failing right now.

    I know it's long but read and bump if you can.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889220366?page=1

    I really hope that it can help in some way to break this pattern that the forums and CM's are getting into.

    I just wish the CM's would stop responding to troll threads and start focusing on actual constructive ones.

    They're not helping with the whole "Let's communicate effectively" idea.
    06/20/2012 10:40 PMPosted by Voldeshort
    Free bump for OP providing a constructive post with good ideas.
    I'm not directly suggesting any changes in my post. I'm pointing out why feedback and communication with blues is utterly failing right now.

    I know it's long but read and bump if you can.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889220366?page=1

    I really hope that it can help in some way to break this pattern that the forums and CM's are getting into.

    I just wish the CM's would stop responding to troll threads and start focusing on actual constructive ones.

    They're not helping with the whole "Let's communicate effectively" idea.


    It's not helping no, but even the constructive posts aren't being properly recognized either, just adding to the issue even more.

    I know i personally am getting just pissed at the lack and ability for someone to post constructive feedback directly to the game makers. without having to go through another party(CM's)
    Edited by G195#1309 on 6/20/2012 10:59 PM PDT
    90 Gnome Warlock
    7415
    Posts: 15,942
    Don't stack affixes on pell mell, random mish mash. 1, this makes devastating, unbeatable combos possible. 2, this makes every fight turn out almost the same.

    Re: 2, when every pack has 4 chances to roll, and roughly half of all affixes are of the "dropping things on the ground" variety, this forces everyone into kiting unless they have trivialized the content already. Almost every. single. fight. will have things on the ground to avoid. Some are different then others (arcane vs frozen vs desecrator, for ex), but in the end it's very similar.

    Solution: Categorize every affix. For example, Offense, Defense, Mobility. Add a 4th randomized category for inferno. This way, every pack has a unique and varied set of abilities. Getting a stupidly devastating (to melee) combo like Waller/Fast/Vortex/Fire Chains is now much less likely, and the uniqueness of every fight goes up as well. And you get all of this without having to directly address each affix (and there are some that should be addressed, but this improves the entire system).

    example categories:
    -Offense: Plagued, Desecrator, Mortar, Arcane, Fire Chains, Horde
    -Defense: Shielding, Knockback, Nightmarish, Electrified, Vampiric, Extra Health, Health Link
    -Mobility: Fast, Teleport, Jailer, Vortex, Waller (I've included the ones that affect the PC's mobility as well)

    -I also suggest barring certain combos, like Vortex/Nightmarish/Jailer/*, since that amount of unavoidable stuff is impossible to counter by any class regardless of player skill level. Seeing a frozen orb a half second too late and getting caught is one thing, and we can kick ourselves for not being on the ball... being sent running, then being rooted, then pulled back to the pack, all without warning and with nothing you can do about it, is not fun, and may turn your players bald from hair pulling.

    Since enough people would like to see this issue addressed I will add it to the OP.
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