Diablo® III

Drop Rates increased but...

Posts: 530
Now, if you have feedback regarding what you think we could better with these mechanics, then please feel free to post your ideas and thoughts in this thread. I'll be reading along and relaying what you have to say.

You guys aren't fully utilizing all the mechanics Diablo 3 introduced up to Inferno in Inferno.

1. Events and Quests are a waste of time unless they provide a champion pack/resplendent chest. Why aren't they tuned to be an Inferno grade challenge with Inferno grade rewards so it's actually exciting to find an Event or do a Quest like "Raise the Catapults?"

Imagine if Jar of Souls was upgraded to have players fight significantly more difficult enemies (through in champions as the timer counts down) and a dramatically better reward? You have a whole swathe of stuff you essentially aren't using in Inferno.

2. Breakables and chests - if botting/no fighting farming is so bad, why not incorporate this into the Nephalem Valor or a similiar system? Don't just nerf these out of existence, use existing or new gameplay systems to make these objects a reward for completing a combat challenge!

3. Purple mini-bosses - same as above, really. No challenge, no reward. Very easy kills with no drops. Why? Make it a worthwhile event to find a purple mob instead of a glorified Treasure Goblin that drops nothing worthwhile. If farming runs on just that alone are a problem, again, think in terms of a Nephalem Valor type system to prevent it. As it stands, finding a purple monster is not fun.

4. Currently it feels like you want us to just hunt elite packs and nothing else. Optimizing for anything other than champion killing is a waste of time. Suggestion - try incorporating "Massive Blow" and "Killing Spree" streaks into the item find system. As it stands, there is no real reason to grab skills optimized for annihilating large swathes of white enemies because they are trivial with any skillset you choose.

Example (random numbers)- If you get a Massive Blow of 25+ kills, you get a guaranteed magic item drop. 45+ grants you a rare. Something similiar of a kill streak. Reward the ability to obliterate very large packs of white enemies fast if a person likes that kind of build!

Diablo 3 has a ton of gameplay systems that could make the Inferno play dramatically more varied, but it's not using them. How come? Quests, Events, Destructables, Streaks, Unique enemies all atrophy into a waste of time come Inferno. Please do something with them!
@Seanusphere

Totally agree on both parts as I just posted without seeing your post. Limiting a game to a more linear path is never fun. Options is what makes the game fun. Trying something new and figuring it out on your own is fun.

Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.


You're doing it wrong. You shouldn't discourage one behavior, you should encourage another instead. Limiting the player's options because you think one of them isn't very fun isn't a good thing, it's a bad thing. You don't just take away an option because you don't find it fun, you find ways to make that option more fun or to make other options more attractive. When you just take away everything, you end up with a very linear style that is exactly what you thought Diablo II was.

We're already working on another developer blog that delves more deeply in to our current philosophy regarding Magic Find gear swapping, why it's our current philosophy, and how we're looking at improving Magic Find in general, so that will probably provide insight on this particular topic. No solid date on that blog yet, but it's definitely coming soon(tm).

Please note that these monsters still have a chance to drop two Magic items, but that those drops are just no longer guaranteed.

Also, keep in mind the following:
  • Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality


Now, if you have feedback regarding what you think we could better with these mechanics, then please feel free to post your ideas and thoughts in this thread. I'll be reading along and relaying what you have to say.


If gear swapping is your philosophy, you should probably make a way to quickly change gear sets.

As for the purple monsters, you should have left them alone. The "chance" to drop 2 items is pretty low. I've killed a lot of them since the change and the only one I got anything from, besides gold, was Jondarr the one time I killed him.
Where do you get your information when you make these decisions? While you may think players aren't having fun switching on magic find gear to open chests etc, do you honestly think players think its fun if these things don't drop items or things anymore regardless if we wear magic find or not?

Did you not consider the effects on the game as a whole this change would have? What about players who switch on magic find gear to finish off the last sliver of a champion pack? Are you going to nerf it so that the champion pack no longer drops items? Then where will we be?

I am not a player that switches gear around for the chance at better loot. I find it too tedious. I collect magic find gear with good stats and hodge podge pieces in where I overhear content for that extra chance. But thats how I enjoy playing. Another player may like switching gear better.

What right do you have to dictate to me or anyone else how we should be playing a game?
06/20/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Lylirra
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun,


But basically forcing players to swap to gear with magic find in the last 4% of monster health is fun?

There's no easy way to use magic find in the game plain and simple. To say otherwise is being blind to the fact that you cannot survive inferno by sacrificing important stats for magic find.

I am not attacking you personally, just the idea of magic find itself. It's broken as a whole and not fun to use. It's not the players fault blizzard made it this way.

I guess to continue and provide feedback:

The game is designed around absolutely needing resistances. (Inferno strictly speaking).
To acquire the best loot, you need to go to inferno. To play in inferno, you need to stack resistances and other decent stats.

Not enough resistances and you'll be crushed very, very quickly.
Not enough health and you can easily be killed even with the highest of resistances.
Not enough damage and you wont kill the mobs quickly enough to survive the damage from monsters.

It's all a gear check. Every second of inferno "difficulty" is a gear check.

So, when deciding how you want to go about using magic find, how does one do this? Find the perfect piece of armor that has magic find, resistances, vit and (int/dex/str)? When can I use stats I want to use and not feel forced to use others?

The balance between acts helped, but I am still forced to use the stats that is predetermined.

We stack the hell out of resistances, why wasn't that nerfed? Because the game would be impossible. Yet we stack a fun stat (IAS) and that is nerfed? Whether or not the IAS nerf was needed, you still nerfed a stat you(Blizzard) claimed to be "Needed to progress in Inferno." Which comes off as insulting. Because we NEED so many stats to progress, IAS was not one of them (maybe from monks as I hear).

Life steal is supposedly meant to "break the game" once you're geared enough, but until that point it feels worthless. 3% of my damage? At 20k damage that's 600 HP a hit. It's a good amount, but it sure doesn't feel game breaking yet, nor powerful by any means. It feels just "there"

Why is it that Life steal has to be top tier? Why is it that IAS can't be a fun stat instead of one that "feels mandatory."

That leaves us with Crit/Crit damage. I don't even bother looking for this stat. Yes it's fun to see crits, but guess what - the auction house only supports 3 search options. Imagine what those 3 options are filled with..

Strength
Vitality
All Resistances

Everytime. Imagine if I could have a static stat that didn't get nerfed that improves damage as well? We have only 2 and one was already nerfed. How long until the other is?

We're forced down a chokehole of mandatory character building and pretending we're not is silly.
Edited by Addict517#1274 on 6/20/2012 3:38 PM PDT
Posts: 1,423
I think you're asking why we made the following changes, so that's what I'm going to attempt to answer for you. (If that's not why you made this post, please let me know.)

Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time


Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses


Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed


Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.

We're already working on another developer blog that delves more deeply in to our current philosophy regarding Magic Find gear swapping, why it's our current philosophy, and how we're looking at improving Magic Find in general, so that will probably provide insight on this particular topic. No solid date on that blog yet, but it's definitely coming soon(tm).

Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain


Please note that these monsters still have a chance to drop two Magic items, but that those drops are just no longer guaranteed.

Also, keep in mind the following:
  • Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality


Now, if you have feedback regarding what you think we could better with these mechanics, then please feel free to post your ideas and thoughts in this thread. I'll be reading along and relaying what you have to say.


I love you guys, but I really think you're entire philosophy regarding so many aspects of this game is just plain wrong.

The core of the issue is the sole fact that you don't want players to play the way they want. You want them to play the way you want. If players would rather break pots with 300% MF on then kill elite packs in 15% MF, then that's their choice. They are going to do what they enjoy most. If they enjoy finding awesome items in a boring fashion more than they enjoy dying over and over to elite packs, then that is their prerogative.

It's not up to you to decide how we should play the game. You may guide us, but you must stop with the forceful hand. If you run into a scenario where the majority of players are breaking pots instead of playing, then you might have a problem, though I seriously doubt that was the case. Also, you might want to consider the fact that playing the game the way it's meant to be played simply isn't lucrative enough. Stop nerfing things and start buffing things.

The same can be said about attack speed. For the love of all that is holy, please revert it to what it was. Who cares if players feel that they HAVE to have attack speed on their items? Did it not occur that perhaps attack speed is fun? I feel like weapon DPS is more important than any other stat when it comes to maximizing my damage output and I guarantee that most players feel the same way. Does that mean that a weapon DPS formula rework that results in a nerf should come? NO! :D

It means that perhaps you should buff other effects to make them more appealing.
Edited by Gosu#1173 on 6/20/2012 3:06 PM PDT
So we went from

04/04/2012 12:44 AMPosted by Bashiok
Our item pool philosophy is that you can break an urn and get the best item in the game - it's all a matter of chance. Running more difficult areas and taking on more difficult enemies will not always be the most efficient way to find upgrades.


to

06/20/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Lylirra
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.


In only 2 months, can I come back in another 2 months to find that you've done yet another 180 on your design philosophy?
This patch put the nail in the coffin for me, instead of changing what makes this game grindy and tedious they remove more fun from it. Blizzard this is the last time you will get my 60$. The company you used to be is dead. R.I.P Old blizz...
They will be adding Resilience Gear in the PvP Debut because I'm already stacking nigh 35% crit 250% critdmg still at reasonable survivability. I don't have any spellpen gear yet though so hopefully I can save up enough and grab it when it does come out.

And as soon as people get destroyed by instagib wizard and DH teams there will be more nerfs towards balance and more people will be upset.

It's WoW all over again.


maybe i can save up enough frost badges to get a good pvp set
06/20/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Lylirra
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.


How -we- want you to play. What -we- think is fun for you.

Here, you can just play for me if you want. It might be easier than having to patch the game constantly.
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun


Thanks for letting me know I wasn't having fun! I didn't even realize it until you told me!


Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.



Disclaimer,
I love your posts Lylirra. They are always informative and you give off a sense of 'care' to the community which I believe is what makes you very well liked.

The above quote is what I think people are disagreeing with the most. People buy Blizzard games to play the way THEY want to play. Every time someone finds an efficient way to farm gold/ gear/ loot it seems that Blizzard sits back and says "No, that is not the way we want, Nerf-Hammer!" It takes away a sense of independence when we have to be told that Blizzard wants us 5 stacking NV and killing a boss, everytime.
Like I said though, nothing against you, I love your posts.
Edited by EwokVillage#1985 on 6/20/2012 3:07 PM PDT
You really shouldn't have made the game around the AH/RMAH, that should just have been "optional" on the side.

You're balancing the game as if it were a mmo. It's madness.
I agree with most of the changes in the latest patch..but nerfing attack speed and the crazy nerfs to drop rates and on everything else like gems and pots..weapon racks..stuff like that makes the game useless...i feel you want us to buy gold instead of playing the game and look for it..and im not talking just inferno act4....every difficulty and every act....and you still cant buy gold in the RMAH..so whats the point...why even play any more..i was totally enjoying playing untill you nerfed all that stuff..its gratifying to break that pot and get some gold ..even if its just a alittle bit of gold..even the when you check the dead guys they dont drop anything hardly....anymore...just my thoughts..ive put in over 80 hrs of game play when i could..I might stop playing..cause its just not as fun as it was to find loot in the loot finding game which doesnt drop much anymore
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