Diablo® III

Drop Rates increased but...

90 Undead Rogue
6510
@Lylirra
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889309242

Until you guys can figure this out, you will continue to watch hundreds drop by the day from your already low, 2000 players playing public at peak time.

ARPG, Not MMO
Say it with me now, ARPG
Community Manager
06/20/2012 02:57 PMPosted by Spincut
But if perhaps someone on the blue side can at least admit "yeah, it still needs more work, this is not where things will stay" and you say this very DIRECTLY, maybe people will be less upset.


While I'm unable to say one way or another whether "this is where things will stay," we're definitely not opposed to making additional changes. Iteration is big part of our design philosophy, and we will continue to make improvements to the game (maybe not forever, but definitely until we feel that everything is in a good place). For example, we're currently looking at a number of solutions for how to curb the popular practice of players swapping out their normal gear for Magic Find gear right before a kill to min/max their efficiency. In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.* Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)

There will always be situations where our definition of "fun" and some players' definitions of "fun" will vary, but in general our goal when making changes like these is to improve the overall game experience. We might not always succeed, but this is what we strive for. For environment objects and destructible objects, it became an issue of players repeatedly choosing to avoid killing monsters in favor of smashing pots. Not because they particularly liked smashing pots or didn't particularly like killing monsters, but because it what was most efficient. We want you to kill monsters. We also want you to not have to worry about dragging along a separate set of Magic Find gear just for the sake efficiency gains. Did we succeed with these changes? Maybe. We think it was the right move, but it's only a day out from the patch and we're still waiting for all the feedback to settle.

By the way, when players say things like "Blizzard just wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it," that's both true and not true -- but maybe not in the ways that you think. We definitely encourage experimentation, exploration, and variety. We've seen a lot of interesting tactics and builds and play styles develop since launch, and we're still seeing players find new ways to progress their characters. And that's really freaking cool. What we don't want to have happen, though, and where we're most likely to step in make changes, is when a certain tactic or a single way to play becomes the ONLY way to play. (Treasure Goblin farming is a another good example of this. For most, it was fun mostly because of the rate of loot reward...but, you weren't really fighting all that much, and because it was one of the most rewarding tactics out there, that meant a lot of players were driven to play that way, even if they didn't want to.)

*I realize this not exactly what you were suggesting, but I wanted to make it clear that we're not opposed to making further changes to a specific mechanic if we feel that it's not where it should be.

06/20/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Ramethelis
Also, as an aside, will that blog post be going over the other changes as well, or merely trying to ease the blow from the radical changes which happened?


It'll be focused on Magic Find gear swapping only. We want to try to do more developer blogs in general, but have each blog be shorter and only address about 1-2 topics (rather than having a big wall of text that may or may get read completely).
Edited by Lylirra on 6/20/2012 4:29 PM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
11870
Please stop treating this game like an MMO.

If I want to swap magic find gear and risk dying, then let me do that. If you don't find it fun, it does not mean that I don't find it fun.

Diablo 3 has WoW syndrome now where the developers say "this isn't fun so we're going to change it" even though people are perfectly fine with that specific "issue." Then down the line, say in the next expansion, those features will magically come back. I guarantee in the next expansion or two we'll start seeing attack speed gear that has the original values we've been using up until 1.03.
I think you're asking why we made the following changes, so that's what I'm going to attempt to answer for you. (If that's not why you made this post, please let me know.)

Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time


Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses


Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed


Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.

We're already working on another developer blog that delves more deeply in to our current philosophy regarding Magic Find gear swapping, why it's our current philosophy, and how we're looking at improving Magic Find in general, so that will probably provide insight on this particular topic. No solid date on that blog yet, but it's definitely coming soon(tm).

Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain


Please note that these monsters still have a chance to drop two Magic items, but that those drops are just no longer guaranteed.

Also, keep in mind the following:
  • Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality


Now, if you have feedback regarding what you think we could better with these mechanics, then please feel free to post your ideas and thoughts in this thread. I'll be reading along and relaying what you have to say.


Yeah gear swapping is the only option with what we have.
More items need magic find like in diablo 2 where you could clear hell with gear that has full magic find with really nice stats. I don't see items that are like this at all in diablo 3, forcing us to swap gear.
Charms from d2 brought a lot of magic find as well.

Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.


I for one had a magic find set that I would only swap to when looting clouds and the pinata in the ponie land. I hated carrying it around when i was clearing an area or even progressing through an act and would only rarely swap to it if i was killing a boss or champ pack.

As a result of the huge IAS nerf I have been running around with a full set of speed/IAS gear(for regular mobs) AND a full set of tank gear(for elites) because killing regular mobs with less than 1.5 attacks per second as a monk with a 1handed weapon and a shield is the slowest gameplay ive ever experienced in diablo and honestly is not enjoyable in the slightest bit.

Even when i swap to my all speed/IAS gear i barely get over 2 attacks per second and my survivability goes right out the window but at least its somewhat fun while im alive to be attacking at what feels like a normal speed for a monk.

Unfortunately for my play style and builds(of which i have multiple that I use frequently) this is the most efficient way to play.

I, like most, realize that IAS was a little overpowered however the amount you have reduced it by made the game feel incredibly slow and tedious every time im in combat. I dont care about the loss of DPS or reduced resource regeneration as a result all i care is that it looks and feels horrible attacking so slowly with weapons/gear/skills that are meant for a faster pace of play.
Community Manager
Also, extending the post cap (because, hey, discussion is cool). :)
So the drop rates are increased....but.....

•Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses

•Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain

•Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time

•Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed

Pretty much says it all.......


i got elites to drop me 4 rares multiple time in a game at some point i had a full inventory of rares with only a few blues lolz
I have the solution!

Have MF work on environmental objects only when a creature has been killed within the past X seconds, where you guys figure out the best X.

This solves everything!
06/20/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Lylirra
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.


D3 Devs: redefining "fun." Big Brother is watching you!
You wanna know what really isn't all that fun...this game It's gone from bad to worse. Last Blizzard purchase for me.

Smashing pots etc. and finding stuff is a big part of the game for me. So, please don't tell me what I like as you obviously have no clue.


Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun


At what point will you let the players decide what they think is and isn't fun?

It's infuriating getting all my gear and skills built towards something that works and is fun for me, only to have it changed. This latest patch absolutely destroyed the value and usefulness of my gear. Its frustrating enough that I've listed my remaining gear on the RMAH and I will be playing a different game in the near future. I simply can't stand the constant short sighted nerfs.

I don't think you guys are anywhere near accurate on what the real problems have been with this game.
I'm sorry Blizzard... what was that? I'm not having fun spending HOURS destroying every barrel and object I can find, looking, hoping, praying that something great drops? I didn't have fun finding that perfect fist weapon for my monk off a random barrel? I didn't realize I wasn't having fun Blizzard, thanks for correcting me.

Well, golly gee... I guess I'll have to go and not have fun playing a different game, because I'm tired of learning how to play your game and then you 'fixing' the way I'm playing.
MF gear has been apart of diablo since the beginning, why change it now? the whole point of that stat is to help players find additional and better pieces of loot. i understand you add the stacks into the game to make it so we cant just run in, kill a boss, and reset. we need to kill at least 5 rare and elite packs, make our way to the boss to get the loot we are looking for. but why phase out magic find gear? for the players that dont know about it? for all the players too poor because of the new repair costs to buy it off the ah? i dont get it.

d3 was a unfinished game when we all first bought it, but why brake it even worse? by the time you guys fix the issues with the game youll lose most of the player base lol
06/20/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Lylirra
we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun,


Stopped reading right there. I don't care what you 'think' is fun, I care about what actually is fun... which for me was SMASHY SMASHY RANDOM OBJECTS TIME, in between moving from area to area, and encountering mobs. It's like you took a song, and just removed a section and expected the rhythm to feel the same.

Ask the community, poll us, as to what is fun.
One more thing,

Finding Sh*t gear in a game about gear is NOT fun..maybe fix that one.
Fundamentally, telling players what is 'fun' and what isn't is a slap in the face. Please, don't do that again. Let us decide how to have a good time.

Some players swap items right before they land the final blow on a boss or elite pack? OK, let them do that. I don't find that fun, but if some people think that is fun (they are playing a game after all and they don't have to swap items, they are CHOOSING to) then let them have their fun.

Some players like to break pots for gold/items? OK let them spend hours and hours not fighting monsters, doing the same thing over and over. They are having fun doing it, for whatever reason. Why FORCE them to quit doing what they were having fun doing?

What I want to know is why Blizzard is taking away options. If some people find something fun, let them have their fun. If you tell somebody what fun is, chances are they don't agree exactly with what you tell them, and they will find another way to have fun (And with other similar games available, why keep playing the game that took your fun away?). More importantly, why would you trust the company who put out the game which WAS fun and STOPPED being fun because the developers decided that YOU WERE HAVING FUN WRONG. I doubt anyone who quit because of these changes buys another Blizzard Title.

Somewhere the direction for this game went amiss, and it is going farther amiss as time goes on and more patches are applied.

This is an action RPG. We want our characters to be superhuman, fast, powerful, flashy, and looking cool. Don't make the too-strong abilities weaker, make the too-weak abilities stronger. Don't make the best item affix weaker, make the weakest item affixes stronger.

Build up, don't tear down.

Trust me, Adding by subtraction isn't the way to go here. Add by adding.
90 Troll Mage
9605
06/20/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Lylirra
In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.


Are you serious? You just did it again. I enjoy doing it because I get better loot to drop. This game is all about loot. You are telling us what isn't fun even tho it's fun for some people.
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