Diablo® III

Drop Rates increased but...

I bought the game because it said it was "Diablo" 3, not some other game. But you have taken any fun that was in the game away. I play a game to relax and loot and waste time. I don't play a game for pushniment and wasting time for nothing. I feel now there is just no point to playing. The number of random possibilities is just way to great to get a good drop. Do I want to spend all day playing to kill elites and maybe just maybe 1 in a billion shot at a good item. I don't think so.

Blizzard you really need to fix the drop issue or this game is a waste. Your loosing players everyday. It's your game and you can do what you want with it. But all those employees of yours cost money and if no one plays you have no money. If you expect people to pay those high prices in Auction House I doubt you'll make much. It's one thing to buy or make a computer to play Dieblo that costs $1500, but then have to spend over $2000 to get good gear that can barely play the game, well, I'm not.

You have a great graphics game here, why do you think you have to make the game play so bad.

WHy don't you program a randon engine that is a little more intelligent than the 15 year old D1 engine your still using.
If Blizzard learns anything from this thread it should be that trying to define fun for an entire community is a terrible idea. They repeatedly state what is and isn't fun, then use it as a justification for a design/mechanic change, as if they are doing the community a favor every time they make such a sweeping alteration.

What Blizzard doesn't get is that they're removing what people feel is the "efficient" way—which apparently is and antonym of fun, if you let them define it—and replacing it with...nothing? Chests, vases, weapon racks, countless farming locations (both EXP and items), and dozens of other things have been nerfed into oblivion because they are the "most efficient" but "not fun" methods of doing things; without offering a viable alternative in their place.

No matter how you look at it, defining what is fun or isn't fun for the community directly dictates how the game should be played. This ideology flies in the face of the whole "play the way you want" movement they were pushing prior to the release. The truth of the matter is that we, the Diablo 3 community, can play the way we want until for so long, before the Blizzard developers make us play the way they us to.

Stop trying to define "fun" for us.

Stop making changes without giving a viable alternative.

And lastly, please stop making class/item changes that are so drastic that they force people to rebuild their entire suit of gear, reroll, or quit the game entirely.

EDIT: I'd like to add that the patches are also rendering the game unplayable for some people. I mean this in a technical sense and not a gameplay one. I for one had never had any disconnection or lag issues until patch 1.03 launched. Now, I can't log in for more than 60 seconds without being booted.
Edited by F8L#1726 on 6/20/2012 5:27 PM PDT
06/20/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Xavori
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun


Right there sums up what is wrong with so many of the decisions this game has made.

You are deciding for us, the players, what is and is not fun.

You know what's really not fun? Being told what is and is not fun by someone who is not us.

I can think of all kinds of things people were doing that weren't 'fun' for me. But they were having fun doing them, so hey, more power to them.


this
06/20/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Caeduss
Simply Put, Better Business Bureau Complaint Filed with regards to bait and switch tactics, and near inability to use a product I paid for because I am not in top 1% of players. Lets see how this turns out.


Man you sound dumb.
06/20/2012 05:09 PMPosted by Karor
Jesus, people. It's a damn video game.... a pretty decent one at that. Not perfect, not even great...but a fun game. Especially when you don't take every iota of information from blizzard as pure blasphemy to all gamers.


lol, even people defending this game admit that it sucks.
I think you're asking why we made the following changes, so that's what I'm going to attempt to answer for you. (If that's not why you made this post, please let me know.)

why it's our current philosophy, and how we're looking at improving Magic Find in general, so that will probably provide insight on this particular topic. No solid date on that blog yet, but it's definitely coming soon(tm).


"Current philosophy" sure gets thrown around a lot. Practically for every single negative change made to the game. And it's never ever consistent. Who is in charge of the "current" philosophy? Jay Wilson? Do you use a magic eight ball, or does each person on the team get a turn each week to change the game in ways that THEY would rather see it personally, instead of something the entire team would consider? Sure seems that way.
06/20/2012 04:54 PMPosted by Myztifyan
... how do you expect us to progress, to be able to purchase items from the AH in order to even kill those champion packs you want us to hunt? I'm really curious about that.


By the time you have the gear to effectively hunt and kill the elites, you'll no longer need anything they drop.
All I know is this.

I ran an inferno butcher run for the umpteenth time today. This was the first time I have done it since 1.03 and I got about 10-15 more than usual rare drops, a legendary drop (only my second), and a set item (first). I wasn't wearing any extra MF besides the Valor buff either.

I am all for changes that let me concentrate on killing instead of opening and still get much more loot in the process.
Edited by Seeker#1244 on 6/20/2012 5:29 PM PDT
Okay, I'm going to attempt a serious approach towards this issue.

First of all, you guys @ Blizzard screwed up, somewhere, somehow. Admit it or not, the playerbase is severely disappointed.

While that may seem fine for most game/patches/etc. You are a AAA company with plenty of names/titles/series to boost your reputation. Diablo 3 in particular is unacceptable in its current implementation.

Let's take a look at this--- you offer D2 for free for $72 to current WoW users, ok, it's free, it sucks, they don't lose much. You rope in the huge D2 market into thinking "Oh the predecessor to D2" they get a completely different game, they fail, you win.

Blizzard, AND YES SPECIFICALLY BLUES, at some time you guys were gamers, otherwise you would not be in the position you are in. Your job is to issue feedback to developers, well, do it.

A small minority is pleased with D3 at the moment, and I predict a continuing downfall until you guys actually report what is going on to the developers. You have statistically removed all fun from the game, everything that made D2 great, and yet had the audacity to sell based on D2 players' expectations?! What the !@#$. Seriously. This company I once recommended and loved has literally gone down the toilet. YOU ARE THE STANDARD IN PC GAMING. STOP IT.
90 Undead Rogue
6510


Seriously. Why won't the dev's just admit farming bosses is insanely fun?


This.... Who wants to farm elite packs all day?


I hope a thousand people quote this. Your game is in no shape to be taking options away from us atm.

On a side note, I really want to play diablo right now but i can't because everyone has quit so no auctions are selling to gear up my barbarian and since it is nearly impossible to find his own gear I am stuck. Also I certainly do not feel right playing my wizard down 30k dps after i spent so many hours gearing him.
So im left with grinding act 1 on barbarian for ..2%.. drop rate or bringing my wizard back to acts i already struggled through. Not going to happen, your idea's of "fun" is my idea of "i cannot play this game in it's current state. "
Things you could do in Diablo 2 (Post 1.10 patch) :

Thank you for pointing this out. I've been having this discussion with my friends. It's like Blizzard decided to go in the exact opposite direction of the late Diablo 2 patches. Where those patches encouraged Magic Find runs in all Acts and from a variety of sources, Diablo III seems to be heading in the exact opposite direction.

One of the most fun things about Magic Find runs is finding better gear with the Magic Find property!

06/20/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Lylirra
(Treasure Goblin farming is a another good example of this. For most, it was fun mostly because of the rate of loot reward...but, you weren't really fighting all that much, and because it was one of the most rewarding tactics out there, that meant a lot of players were driven to play that way, even if they didn't want to.)

So, for most it was fun but they didn't want to do it? I'm confused.

-JJ
Stop being contrary for the sake of argument.
06/20/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Lylirra
But if perhaps someone on the blue side can at least admit "yeah, it still needs more work, this is not where things will stay" and you say this very DIRECTLY, maybe people will be less upset.


While I'm unable to say one way or another whether "this is where things will stay," we're definitely not opposed to making additional changes. Iteration is big part of our design philosophy, and we will continue to make improvements to the game (maybe not forever, but definitely until we feel that everything is in a good place). For example, we're currently looking at a number of solutions for how to curb the popular practice of players swapping out their normal gear for Magic Find gear right before a kill to min/max their efficiency. In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.* Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)

There will always be situations where our definition of "fun" and some players' definitions of "fun" will vary, but in general our goal when making changes like these is to improve the overall game experience. We might not always succeed, but this is what we strive for. For environment objects and destructible objects, it became an issue of players repeatedly choosing to avoid killing monsters in favor of smashing pots. Not because they particularly liked smashing pots or didn't particularly like killing monsters, but because it what was most efficient. We want you to kill monsters. We also want you to not have to worry about dragging along a separate set of Magic Find gear just for the sake efficiency gains. Did we succeed with these changes? Maybe. We think it was the right move, but it's only a day out from the patch and we're still waiting for all the feedback to settle.

By the way, when players say things like "Blizzard just wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it," that's both true and not true -- but maybe not in the ways that you think. We definitely encourage experimentation, exploration, and variety. We've seen a lot of interesting tactics and builds and play styles develop since launch, and we're still seeing players find new ways to progress their characters. And that's really freaking cool. What we don't want to have happen, though, and where we're most likely to step in make changes, is when a certain tactic or a single way to play becomes the ONLY way to play. (Treasure Goblin farming is a another good example of this. For most, it was fun mostly because of the rate of loot reward...but, you weren't really fighting all that much, and because it was one of the most rewarding tactics out there, that meant a lot of players were driven to play that way, even if they didn't want to.)

*I realize this not exactly what you were suggesting, but I wanted to make it clear that we're not opposed to making further changes to a specific mechanic if we feel that it's not where it should be.

Also, as an aside, will that blog post be going over the other changes as well, or merely trying to ease the blow from the radical changes which happened?


It'll be focused on Magic Find gear swapping only. We want to try to do more developer blogs in general, but have each blog be shorter and only address about 1-2 topics (rather than having a big wall of text that may or may get read completely).


Okay, so I kind of understand what you're saying, but it still doesn't make any sense to me... let me explain:

1. I have never once gone through this whole process of treasure goblin hunting, and didn't even know it was a thing until you mentioned that some people were doing it. Are most casual players really doing this? Seriously. I doubt it.
2. I never go crazy farming pots and chests and stuff, but I do make an effort to destroy every item in sight because it is FUN to get stuff, even if it isn't much of anything! Are most casual players really going through and farming pots/barrels because they have to? Seriously. I doubt it.
3. I enjoy fighting bosses, and packs of enemies, etc, but the possibility of switching out all of my gear for MF at the last moment just so I could take advantage of a small % chance of loot has NEVER occurred to me. Do you really think most players are actually doing this? Or is it just a select few that are farming like crazy? Seriously, I highly doubt even 10% of the player base is doing this.

Bottom line is, why is Blizzard large gameplay changes like this that PUNISH normal players, just because a minority of people are playing the game a slightly different way that you don't like?

Running through the game fighting was never the ONLY fun part of the game for me - so was exploration, going through every nook and cranny, and destroying stuff. And yet I'm being punished because you feel that some people feel that barrel farming is "the only way to play." No. It isn't.

Quit making changes that make things harder/worse for most people just to solve a "problem" (if you can call it that) that almost no one is doing.
06/20/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Lylirra
But if perhaps someone on the blue side can at least admit "yeah, it still needs more work, this is not where things will stay" and you say this very DIRECTLY, maybe people will be less upset.


While I'm unable to say one way or another whether "this is where things will stay," we're definitely not opposed to making additional changes. Iteration is big part of our design philosophy, and we will continue to make improvements to the game (maybe not forever, but definitely until we feel that everything is in a good place). For example, we're currently looking at a number of solutions for how to curb the popular practice of players swapping out their normal gear for Magic Find gear right before a kill to min/max their efficiency. In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.* Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)

There will always be situations where our definition of "fun" and some players' definitions of "fun" will vary, but in general our goal when making changes like these is to improve the overall game experience. We might not always succeed, but this is what we strive for. For environment objects and destructible objects, it became an issue of players repeatedly choosing to avoid killing monsters in favor of smashing pots. Not because they particularly liked smashing pots or didn't particularly like killing monsters, but because it what was most efficient. We want you to kill monsters. We also want you to not have to worry about dragging along a separate set of Magic Find gear just for the sake efficiency gains. Did we succeed with these changes? Maybe. We think it was the right move, but it's only a day out from the patch and we're still waiting for all the feedback to settle.

By the way, when players say things like "Blizzard just wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it," that's both true and not true -- but maybe not in the ways that you think. We definitely encourage experimentation, exploration, and variety. We've seen a lot of interesting tactics and builds and play styles develop since launch, and we're still seeing players find new ways to progress their characters. And that's really freaking cool. What we don't want to have happen, though, and where we're most likely to step in make changes, is when a certain tactic or a single way to play becomes the ONLY way to play. (Treasure Goblin farming is a another good example of this. For most, it was fun mostly because of the rate of loot reward...but, you weren't really fighting all that much, and because it was one of the most rewarding tactics out there, that meant a lot of players were driven to play that way, even if they didn't want to.)

*I realize this not exactly what you were suggesting, but I wanted to make it clear that we're not opposed to making further changes to a specific mechanic if we feel that it's not where it should be.

Also, as an aside, will that blog post be going over the other changes as well, or merely trying to ease the blow from the radical changes which happened?


It'll be focused on Magic Find gear swapping only. We want to try to do more developer blogs in general, but have each blog be shorter and only address about 1-2 topics (rather than having a big wall of text that may or may get read completely).


While I appreciate you taking the time to answer what you guys think about what fun is and how the game should be played should not mean anything. You are here to make a game that your fan base enjoys, listen to them(the ones that are staying that is). Best of luck to everyone working at Blizz, you guys will need it! Chao.
06/20/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Brock0029
They want you to get items by killing bad guys, not busting open vases and blowing up beds. This is a shocking development.


So you're saying you like being held by the hand when you play? I sure the !@#$ don't and that's exactly what these nerfs are doing. Forcing us to play the way THEY want us too! I should of known with this %^-* game being online only that this kind of !@#$ would happen.
it's amazing that you can go to blizzards homesite of the sequel of their BEST friggin game in history and the very first thing you see is an entire list of popular forums that are nothing but people COMPLAINING about the game and saying they quit. and it seems like within just a few hours of any one of these topics there are maxed out pages of replies with people AGREEING with everything being complained about. come on blizzard, how obvious can it be? how hard do you need to be hit in the head to realize how badly you missed the freakin' mark
Edited by rrdkl#1571 on 6/20/2012 5:26 PM PDT
Here's an idea!

Make the next developer's blog about FUN. Talk about what's fun and what isn't fun. Then we'll know what we should be doing and what to avoid. I find it pretty entertaining to have fun, but I'm getting quite confused after all the nerfs and changes.

I used to stack MF and attack speed. I used to smack pots and open chests. The thought of, and the promise of usable loot was fun to me. I like action and diversity in games, and the freedom of having multiple options. Now it seems that chests and breakable items aren't even worth the effort any more because some people, dunno how many (guessing just hardcore farmers), focused on that instead of killing monsters.

I'm just a regular guy. I go to work. I come home. I want to relax, maybe play some games, have a beer or two. The funness of this game is declining for me personally, so please tell me how I can enjoy it because I really want to. You're taking away my options and not giving me alternatives.
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