Diablo® III

Drop Rates increased but...

I didn't read through all of this thread to see if it was suggested here, but some guy in another thread suggested the following idea:

An invisible charge meter stacks up every time you kill a monster (say 2 monsters = 3 charges) and each charge allows you to receive a "normal" (read: pre-patch) chance to get an item/gold out of an pot/corpse, "normally" affected by your current magic find.

This seems to go along with what you guys said you wanted as a dev goal - slaying monsters + interacting with the environment.
Edited by innervation#1543 on 6/20/2012 5:27 PM PDT
I've never played Diablo before but the guy that posted the comparison really nailed it.

Farming elites and bosses is fun. The drop rate is good now. But there is only ONE act that is safe to do it in without spending 50k to repair your armor. Boring.
Why in the world is this game being treated like WoW? For the life of me I feel like I'm playing WoW all over again every time I see a new d3 patch. Devs, please get this through your heads. We like farming bosses. We like customization of our characters. We are a world of individuals so please stop trying to make everyone the same. If people want to throw their corpses at monsters, then who cares? They're the ones that have to run all the way back and wait on that res timer. If people want to carry around a set of MF gear then so be it, it's their inventory space, why should it matter?

As for the IAS nerf...just dumb, plain and simple dumb. Don't want players to stack a stat, don't make it an absolute necessity. Here's an even better idea, how about fixing some of the packs so that more than a few builds are viable? I would think that by now blizz would have learned this from all the years with this exact same problem in WoW but nope.

Like many others have said already, who are you to tell us what is fun and what is not fun? Let me be the judge of what is fun for me and I'll let you be the judge of what is fun for you.
I'm not opposed to change, but drastic changes that are made this early in the release are kind of mind boggling. I've been a manager for an IT department at a University so I am definitely aware that people,in my case tenured professors, are not always open to change and that sometime you do what is good for the company. In this case the changes that were made will end up neither good for the company or the customer.

Being innovative involves foresight and the knowledge that sometimes you are going to make the wrong decisions and a good manager is willing to accept the responsibility when they make mistakes and do what they can to correct them. I hope that somewhere behind closed doors at Blizzard that this conversation is going on right now and that we will here from management very soon, saying they dropped to ball on this one but we are going to do whatever it takes to correct it.

My suggestion is don't make changes that punish the player, that was probably the biggest mistake in this patch. Think about the fact there are a variety of people types out there playing the game both casual and hardcore. I know there were progression issues pre-patch and it was great that you addressed them but the change in loot drops and gear damage cost were not that well thought out in my opinion.

I know it's farfetched and not necessarily a requirement but maybe you should get the community a little more involved prior to drastic changes occurring. Anyway I hope to see that some of the changes are pulled back soon.

Oh and please don't wait to fix the issues with WD zombie bears. I could go bats for now but I like the more frenetic style that my bear build gave me.
Lets be honest, these changes and nerfs only benefit those who already have the gear and have farmed out their gold already. For the greater majority of the player base, gold is a commodity that they don't have a great deal of.

So what does this mean? Basically the ones who are super geared and wealthy can continue to farm out items and can now sell them for more ridiculous than ever prices on the gold AH to help you drive the RMAH. Meanwhile with the significant increase in costs to repairs, players are "encouraged" to spend more time in Hell ACT III or Inferno ACT I Farming to get gold and gear with the perception that they can get "high end gear" to progress.

Let me clarify for you guys out there that got excited about the new drop rates. ilvl63 rare items do not automatically carry a 900-1000+ dps or statistics garruantee, just like anything else you have a dice roll at actually favors you to get 600-750 dps and statistics on gear that are completely useless. The Magic items you find can be better most of the time than the potential rares. So how does that 2-3hours of farming act 1 for 2% chance on a dice roll sound? Great if you don't have a job, education, family or friends.

These are sneaky tactics in the game system is to drive the use of the AH, hoping that eventually people wont be patient enough to grind out gear and gold (especially now its harder) and instead just opt to go and buy on the RMAH that item that they just cant get with the time available to them so they can cut their death rates by 1/3 for progression in inferno ACT II and beyond. Take a look at the way they have nerfed the ability to get items and gold from destructible items... We were originally forced to break these destructible items and swap out MF gear in order to maximise the effectiveness of our time in to buy items on the AH in the first place to progress.

Sure there have been statements about how you "don't need" to use the AH to progress, but when there is such a huge displacement between level difficulty and useful item drop rates, its effectively saying to someone who has to hypothetically walk 4hours each way to get to and home from work, "Here is a bus, you dont NEED it, but for a premium it will significantly reduce your travel time". Don't be ambiguous about the fact that you really just want to collect that % per RMAH Auction and just want to drive the player base into it by limiting the amount of virtual currency that can now be accumulated.

The game isn't about "gameplay", its about driving demands for virtual commodities so people pay. It's have created a pyramid effect where the only people enjoying this game are those who exploited in the beginning, have all the top tier gear and gold at the top, allowing them to drive demand for you in the AH assisted by your "mehcanics improvements".

You are dealing with a community that comes from a diverse set of backgrounds and professions, don't be ignorant to the fact that people can see through your guise of a wolf in sheeps skin (ie; The RMAH covered in a half completed game).

As someone who has purchased every single one of Blizzard's titles since 1994, I will no longer be supporting what I see as an abomination of its former self. You don't make quality experience and fun games anymore, you just want us to smash our destructible piggy banks and search our chests for money to pay for your items... ironic.
I really dont agree with the way it was handled to nerf the magic find. I dont do it, but understand that some do, and like smashing chests. Sometimes I even like to take a swing at one to see what comes out! I play hardcore, so gear from Auctiuon is a viable alternative to running the same things over and over, which is what will happen even if killing monster packs, just will be doing it in an area where it is relatively safe instead of progressing.

So, if someone wants to farm barrels for hours so he can sell me a decent armor or weapon that i dont have, let him. It makes us both happy, and oh ya, we both have fun!

Also, did anyone think of dininshing returns on the IAS, oh wait, you did and decided we would not unerstand it if you added that into the description. So the easier fix, and the more fun according to the post, was to take it away by half. Having half of something that you like is not fun. As in, you really like that new car, but it is too fast. Let me take the engine and five you half back, now isnt that better?
crosspost for visibility....

This is how a game company should respond to irate customers:

Some background:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/
The whole ordeal came to a head yesterday when CCP Zulu attempted to douse the flames by addressing the issues directly in a dev diary. The play backfired, however, as players took issue with the dev blog's tone and attitude toward the upset players. Not long after that, an internal CCP email was leaked explaining the reasoning behind the controversial blog post, which only added fuel to the flames.


The result:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672
The estrangement from CCP that many of you have been feeling of late is my fault, and for that I am truly sorry. There are many contributing factors, but in the end it is I who must shoulder the responsibility for much of what has happened. In short, my zeal for pushing EVE to her true potential made me lose sight of doing the simple things right. I was impatient when I should have been cautious, defiant when I should have been conciliatory and arrogant when I should have been humble.


Blizzard is about to be in the same boat... although they don't rely on subscriptions from D3, so the financial crisis will not be immediate like CCP's was, the success of their future titles is going to be impacted heavily by how they respond now.
Why is there not a "rare/legendary drop lockout" for all the main bosses?

This lockout would work exactly like raid lockout in WoW on raid bosses.

Every week (or month) player would be able to get a chance from quest bosses to get a rare or possibly even legendary item.
It'll be focused on Magic Find gear swapping only. We want to try to do more developer blogs in general, but have each blog be shorter and only address about 1-2 topics (rather than having a big wall of text that may or may get read completely).


1st off thanks for the communication and feedback this week!
Some communication is better than no communication letting these negative forums run with forum fires

What about "W" switching to a second gear set .... That was awesome in diablo 2 . and would make having a second MF set or Armor/resist set way easier and keep up the fast pace fun...
What I don't understand is why can't the players just be left to do whatever it is that they want to do. Why does Blizzard feel the need to have to basically force their versions of what they consider fun onto us?

That was the wonderful thing about Diablo 2. The game was the game, and the players were left to play it and find ways to progress, without any kind of intrusive patching or nerfs. If the community found ways to make IAS over powered, then they were able to use that discovery to play the game. There wasn't some kind of knee jerk reaction from Blizzard going, "Hey, they've found a way to make IAS overpowered. Nerf it, immediately!" That's not right. That's intrusive and you guys shouldn't be doing that.

Obviously, if a glitch or some kind of negative exploit is found, then I can understand patching to take care of that. But, to essentially go, "Well, the players are doing 'this' and we don't like it, so we need to get rid of it." That's just wrong.

Bottom line is, if the community finds ways, combinations, or tricks in the game or gameplay that enhance their experience, and doesn't affect others in a negative way, those things should be left alone.

Lastly, make bosses worth something like they were in Diablo 2. Jesus.
The problem with what you've done to the system is that after two days, post 1.0.3 - It is a clear advantage for me to equip my DPS set, which is around 75K on my Demon Hunter and faceroll maps, only swapping in my 313% MF set for last hits on Elite/Champs.

I use to wear the MF set nearly full time and even though it dropped my DPS to 45k, it made it up for it by rewarding me with more rares of white mobs, containers, breakables, etc.

Now I have zero incentive other then to swap it in. Typically, this is handled by dps'ing down 2/3 out of 3/4 of the elite/champ mobs and then kiting away, SS and swap gear then return for last hit.

Now, with the changes that were made to drop rates on Elite/Champs I'm seeing a consistent 3 rares per kill with my MF.

So, this just wasn't a small change - you made a massive change to the game environment and completely altered how I farmed.

I am not happy and the fact I have to run around MF swapping for the last hit to maximize my productivity is sad. Furthermore, I'm about 600 rares (all recorded on a spreadsheet) into the last week's farming activities and have not had 1 decent drop. No legendaries. Last week, I had a decent drop every night and was pulling 1-2 legendaries a day.

I know we all say RNG, RNG....

I think you need to address the massive swings in RNG between 1 day to another or even 1 week to another. The fact I haven't seen one decent item in a week's worth of farming, well if that continues for a few weeks at a time - I doubt I'll be playing Diablo 3. Your asking way to much of a time investment to turn a profit in the AH to further upgrade gear.

Sincerely,

Nico
Oh, the cap was removed here? Well, this post is more appropriate in the thread I think. Apologies for the repost.

Seeing as responses are being occasionally offered here, I'm going to take a moment to see if I can get a reply to a very simple question that has been persistently hounding me throughout the entirety of the patching and hotfixing.

Are there/what are the current plans in regards to increasing diversity of playstyle? I'm not asking after reductions, or removals of current methods of farming that may have other impacts, or the legendary fix, but whether or not there's any work being done in the explicit aim of offering more rather than less to the players?

I don't really expect to receive a post in relation to this, but if you even read it thanks.
Blizzard, please remove all pots, urns, weapon racks and anything else that is clickable and can be destroyed. It would probably improve performance, and really they are just annoying objects that get in the way. There is no reason to ever click on them again.

Repair costs are absurd. I absolutely do not consider it fun to farm 5 NV stacks, multiple elite packs and bosses for an hour to come home with 5000 gold profit after repairs.

I'm done Blizzard, thank god I don't have a monthly subscription like WoW. I should've known when I left WoW because of the constant nerfs, changes, balancing and tuning that this wouldn't be any better.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/600193_376248949096865_1905425561_n.jpg

I've been robbed. lost $60 to a thief, but that's ok. i know the thief and it will never rob from me again

some people may get off on this kind of dominatrix garbage. i just came here to have some fun, never was apart of these "exploits" but you have patch by patch made this game worse for me. this is not the game you told us it would be and its not our responsibility to Beg you to fix it.
But if perhaps someone on the blue side can at least admit "yeah, it still needs more work, this is not where things will stay" and you say this very DIRECTLY, maybe people will be less upset.


While I'm unable to say one way or another whether "this is where things will stay," we're definitely not opposed to making additional changes. Iteration is big part of our design philosophy, and we will continue to make improvements to the game (maybe not forever, but definitely until we feel that everything is in a good place). For example, we're currently looking at a number of solutions for how to curb the popular practice of players swapping out their normal gear for Magic Find gear right before a kill to min/max their efficiency. In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.* Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)

There will always be situations where our definition of "fun" and some players' definitions of "fun" will vary, but in general our goal when making changes like these is to improve the overall game experience. We might not always succeed, but this is what we strive for. For environment objects and destructible objects, it became an issue of players repeatedly choosing to avoid killing monsters in favor of smashing pots. Not because they particularly liked smashing pots or didn't particularly like killing monsters, but because it what was most efficient. We want you to kill monsters. We also want you to not have to worry about dragging along a separate set of Magic Find gear just for the sake efficiency gains. Did we succeed with these changes? Maybe. We think it was the right move, but it's only a day out from the patch and we're still waiting for all the feedback to settle.

By the way, when players say things like "Blizzard just wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it," that's both true and not true -- but maybe not in the ways that you think. We definitely encourage experimentation, exploration, and variety. We've seen a lot of interesting tactics and builds and play styles develop since launch, and we're still seeing players find new ways to progress their characters. And that's really freaking cool. What we don't want to have happen, though, and where we're most likely to step in make changes, is when a certain tactic or a single way to play becomes the ONLY way to play. (Treasure Goblin farming is a another good example of this. For most, it was fun mostly because of the rate of loot reward...but, you weren't really fighting all that much, and because it was one of the most rewarding tactics out there, that meant a lot of players were driven to play that way, even if they didn't want to.)

*I realize this not exactly what you were suggesting, but I wanted to make it clear that we're not opposed to making further changes to a specific mechanic if we feel that it's not where it should be.

[quote]Also, as an aside, will that blog post be going over the other changes as well, or merely trying to ease the blow from the radical changes which happened?


The words from d3 developers are disgusting as always when you try to justify the changes by putting the blame on players.

Now this Magic Find thing, the only message I am getting from you is
"We are going to nerf the swapping"
I'm fine with that, but shouldn't it also be like "We are going to put MF on all gears?" or
"We will increase the overall drop rates" ?
But don't foresee this happening.
Thank you d3 devs again for messing up another thing

Seriously, you are not doing it for the benefits for the players.
Edited by iCUP#1211 on 6/20/2012 6:05 PM PDT
I don't know where people are finding their super gear that allows them to actually kill mobs in Act 1 Inferno....but it's certainly not by playing the game with drops from Hell mode.

So far all the changes made are to control the few who exploit the glotches by punishing the average player who only wants to have fun. We're not all elite gamers with the desire to plunk out $$$ to get any decent gear.

The only way to kill them is to have uber gear or have a friend that does help.With the game in it's current state, I see no compelling reason to play this game any longer and certainly not to continue to get killed by mobs of monsters with unreasonable attributes.
Edited by Fax#1987 on 6/20/2012 5:57 PM PDT
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