Diablo® III

Drop Rates increased but...

I just cant understand how people are soo bad... and soo illogical. All these QQs hey man i used to smash a gazzilon barrels cos i liked but man these reapirs are soo high im now bankrupt...... OMG and how pls explain did you manage to smash a gaziliion barrels and not have gold now? When i was lvl 50 with no barrel smahsing no farming no nothing but lvling i had like a million gold. U telling me it took a million gold for you to realise your too weak to go rolling act w/e u spent all your gold out on repairs but never considered, hey.. mayb i should go farm act 1 rather... or hey mayb im not strong neough for here? Are you lot soo braindead?

I love the patch, all of it. Becuase if you have a brain, like me. Its very easy to see all the positive changes it brings. Dry your eyes then mayb you will see the truth.

Edit: I ran act 2 today for hours and hours, got over 100k per hour after repairs. I salvaged every lvl 60 item that was not AH material so my vendor gold is minimal.

Edit 2: yes i do die
Edited by Shampain#2198 on 6/20/2012 6:12 PM PDT
Hey Blizzard.. got a question for you. Since I don't know what fun is and you do.. Can you give me an idea if these things are fun? Circle the correct response.

(Fun / Not Fun) - Having wallers pin you with their walls and drop plague or desecration at your feet until you are dead? Bonus fun, just as the wall breaks and you think you might survive.. uh oh mobs also a jailer.

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Finally killing that elite group of wasps as melee after the enrage just before you die in inferno and getting a level 51 item?

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Seeing a nice item drop, but before you can pick it up... oops d/c time?

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Getting a blacksmith pattern drop, d/c just after picking it up, log back in to find its not in your backpack?

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Rubberbanding and weird stutterstepping?

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Waiting for your auction to expire instead of just cancelling it?

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Crafting in D3?

(Fun / Not Fun ) - 38k repair bill? (Oh shoot never mind, you already said that one was fun)

(Fun / Not Fun ) - Engaging combat with an elite pack, having to move out of the way of arcane beam and realizing you just aggro'd a second elite pack. (i.e. elite packs in close proximity of each other, not talking about kiting across the map)

Thanks you in advance for helping me understand which of these items are fun for me.
i wonder how blizzard think we like to play the game, spending 20min per mob/boss trying to take them down? doing pot runs in record times? I think they are getting bots confused with people who actually play. The fact is a lot of people enjoy smashing mobs, pots, vases, and all environmental !@#$. before I would arcane orb most pots just to watch them explode as that is way more exciting then getting rolled in act 2 by elites. More so they state that most players swap out magic find/gold find gear to smash pots, open chests and do runs... although i have never done it and no one from my person cohort does, it makes me wonder if people are just running around with a MF set on and blizzard are confused. hell everyone ran a MF set in LoD but had another set if they wanted to walk in the park.

The fact is people like killing big bosses as well, they are fun, Butcher was pretty fun at the start, but gets rolled in a few seconds, belial was also pretty fun in normal -> hell, inferno I ran that about 200 times to try and complete it(More so because I'm from Australia... but that's a different issue).

onto nerfing stats, now IAS has been nerfed, people will stack the next thing, crit chance and damage, etc etc. until main stat is all that remains. Players are always going to use/stack the best combo's of weapons/armour, That's the point. Finally you should know as a Dev that we as humans strive to exploit things, be it games, the parking inspector, taxes, women, and life in general.

But if perhaps someone on the blue side can at least admit "yeah, it still needs more work, this is not where things will stay" and you say this very DIRECTLY, maybe people will be less upset.

While I'm unable to say one way or another whether "this is where things will stay," we're definitely not opposed to making additional changes. Iteration is big part of our design philosophy, and we will continue to make improvements to the game (maybe not forever, but definitely until we feel that everything is in a good place). For example, we're currently looking at a number of solutions for how to curb the popular practice of players swapping out their normal gear for Magic Find gear right before a kill to min/max their efficiency. In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.* Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)

There will always be situations where our definition of "fun" and some players' definitions of "fun" will vary, but in general our goal when making changes like these is to improve the overall game experience. We might not always succeed, but this is what we strive for. For environment objects and destructible objects, it became an issue of players repeatedly choosing to avoid killing monsters in favor of smashing pots. Not because they particularly liked smashing pots or didn't particularly like killing monsters, but because it what was most efficient. We want you to kill monsters. We also want you to not have to worry about dragging along a separate set of Magic Find gear just for the sake efficiency gains. Did we succeed with these changes? Maybe. We think it was the right move, but it's only a day out from the patch and we're still waiting for all the feedback to settle.

By the way, when players say things like "Blizzard just wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it," that's both true and not true -- but maybe not in the ways that you think. We definitely encourage experimentation, exploration, and variety. We've seen a lot of interesting tactics and builds and play styles develop since launch, and we're still seeing players find new ways to progress their characters. And that's really freaking cool. What we don't want to have happen, though, and where we're most likely to step in make changes, is when a certain tactic or a single way to play becomes the ONLY way to play. (Treasure Goblin farming is a another good example of this. For most, it was fun mostly because of the rate of loot reward...but, you weren't really fighting all that much, and because it was one of the most rewarding tactics out there, that meant a lot of players were driven to play that way, even if they didn't want to.)

*I realize this not exactly what you were suggesting, but I wanted to make it clear that we're not opposed to making further changes to a specific mechanic if we feel that it's not where it should be.

Also, as an aside, will that blog post be going over the other changes as well, or merely trying to ease the blow from the radical changes which happened?

It'll be focused on Magic Find gear swapping only. We want to try to do more developer blogs in general, but have each blog be shorter and only address about 1-2 topics (rather than having a big wall of text that may or may get read completely).

*sigh*, the problem is, no one really believes at this point that where you guys think "just right" is is a very good place. People are worried that you will continue to make unpopular changes until, well, the game is just full of very unpopular changes. It's good that you're looking to "curb" certain issues, but perhaps focus on making Legendaries not stink so much first? Perhaps prioritize that above, say, nerfing attack speed without any recompense so people who sunk a lot of money into them feel like they wasted their time?

People feel like their concerns are being ignored in favor of other less pertinent endeavors, especially ones that seem to just make things more annoying and less fun for them without any logical balancing act to the change. Again, pointing to the attack speed. It rendered some very expensive gear I bought rather useless, since it was predicated on a high attack speed. Now that whole endeavor is largely moot and I see no further change to balance out such a high and dry situation.

Furthermore, while I sometimes like knowing I have a little MF percentage, I do not personally participate in the practice of swapping out magic find gear, never have. So the fact that I am now suffering due to you pursuing "curbing" this, while also suffering to changes to things like attack speed, well, it gives me pause. Especially considering that you already did things like splitting MF% up in group games, which a lot of people didn't like either. Seems like you're beating the issue with a dead horse while there's other bigger issues out there (or ones that have gotten worse with subsequent changes).

I also never avoided monsters to kill pots! I did BOTH. Now I will not be bothering with pots, but still, I think you're seeing these exploits but making changes under the presumption that a lot of people are doing it, and forgetting how it affects the play experience to people who are not. Now pots have no relevance, when having them PLUS killing monsters was fun.

And also, and I think this was established A WHILE ago by you yourself, the fact remains that whether it's Diablo 2 OR Diablo 3, people will gravitate to very specific play styles. I actually find it ironic that you made all these (in some cases unpopular) changes to make it so people would not pick just one style of play, when it feels like that is not only what's happening (due to your very non-challenging select any skill whenever you want plus runes system), but perhaps happening even moreso than with Diablo 2.

Suffice it to say, you guys have a lot of work cut out for you, so much that I don't even know if an expansion where you do every single decision right and it's the most awesomest thing in the world, could fix all this. But.....here's hoping.

P.S. "Our item pool philosophy is that you can break an urn and get the best item in the game - it's all a matter of chance. Running more difficult areas and taking on more difficult enemies will not always be the most efficient way to find upgrades."

Guess who wrote this? Unfortunately, even during development, the "philosophy" you guys have had has taken drastic and schizophrenic increases, and you've done it practically without flinching, no matter how much people pointed it out. I think people are being especially frustrated due to the level of contradictions they are finding in the decisions being made, since there was no non-dismissive explanation given to not make it seem ridiculous. It almost feels like a very "burn-worthy" episode of the Daily Show when he has massive amounts of new and old clips of politicians.
Edited by Spincut#1363 on 6/20/2012 6:14 PM PDT
So I spent tons of time and effort and money building an amazing MF/dps/survival build for my DH. I don't use sharpshooter and i have 65k dps with 2-300 resists and 300 MF with full NV. Quite the set, and hard to assemble you can imagine with the terrible AH search functionality.

Now this patch its complete trash. I've farmed for 15 hours and I see about 4-5 ilvl 63 items per FULL clear of act 3. I go to whimsyshire and get maybe one ilvl63 item, maybe two. I used to get 5-6 doing whimsy (sometimes 10 or more) and doing a siegebreaker run or azmo run I'd grab 7 or so (5 stacking and killing bosses). Now I'm killing packs like crazy and finding squat for them. With finding as many as I previously did I very rarely (every other run or so) found something decent.

I no longer fill my bags once in whimsyshire. I stopped popping clouds, breaking items, opening chests, and doing many other fun things i used to enjoy. When i see a purple named mob i consider whether its easier to kill him or lure him away and de-aggro. I actually stopped doing whimsyshire altogether.

I no longer kill the bosses who i used to enjoy. I might kill azmodan but that's about it. I am forced to farm the entirety of act three and in 15 hours of farming I have gotten two moderately saleable pieces that won't cover the repair costs. I am not a graveyard zerger, I can often kill packs without dying once, and the game is, in fact, easier now for me than it ever was because I can take a few hits and thats more than I need.

This isn't fun. Why should I farm even though I know i want to. It is costing me gold to farm and kill things with 300 MF and without dying. I have to buy mats to craft instead of disenchanting things to make them which means I'm losing more money on crafting hoping to make that perfect pair of gloves.

So I'm punished because of other peoples MF set swapping and my entire MF set is now useless. On top of that I can no longer upgrade any piece at any time because (never mind finding one) I cant find things to sell to buy one.

On the flip side I've seen my farming friend roll two nice legendaries and make a profit. I'm sure that's different than the norm. Most of his loot is all 51-57 just like mine. I've watched streams of people farming act 3/4 and their bags contain maybe one ilvl63 after an entire act so I know its not just me. Before, sure most the high level items i rolled were trash, but at least i had a few chances at it. Now I've got maybe one for farming an entire act. I'm not even excited now when i roll my bags out id rather just sell them before rolling them.

I guess I'm done farming. I'll hold onto my money and try to work the auction house which is the only way i know i won't be losing gold.

Crafting was a 10m net loss in the last 500 pairs of gloves. Farming was a 2 mil net loss in seven full siegebreaker runs.

I guess I'll sit here being punished for other people abusing magic find sets and botting and duping and no longer enjoy the game.

I don't care that much about the clouds and chests and yadda yadda (okay I do care a lot), but its too much that I see 3-4 rares drop from every elite pack and each one of them is a lvl 57 piece sometimes level 51. I used to almost always get high level rares when rares dropped from packs (60 or higher almost always) and now its mostly level 51-57. That's the problem, the real nerf to loot tables was the drop rates of high ilvl items to a dismal percentage.

Is this intended?
Edited by Dement#1144 on 6/20/2012 6:16 PM PDT
06/20/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Lylirra
But if perhaps someone on the blue side can at least admit "yeah, it still needs more work, this is not where things will stay" and you say this very DIRECTLY, maybe people will be less upset.

Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)

The last time something was not intended, it got nerfed to the ground.

So I'm gonna call it: Blizzard will change MF to be detected at the start of the fight instead of at the end of the fight when the patch comes around.
Just to let you know as an admin. Basically everyone i know and as well as posts which is about 80% do not like the new patch one bit and refuse to play....it just destroyed the game. We are the ones playinig the game who PAYED for it so our feedback should be considered a great deal,
I hope you take this post into serious consideration.
If I want to swap magic find gear and risk dying, then let me do that. If you don't find it fun, it does not mean that I don't find it fun.

But do you find it fun? Im pretty sure you don't because theres nothing fun about it.

Im inclined to think you're just saying that so that they dont take it away from you - which is a different thing altogether.
90 Goblin Priest
Posts: 178
Thing is that this is NOT an mmo like wow; This (should have been) a Game designed for casual fun; were you can get on by yourself, or a with a group of friends, and get some cool gear. Right now its all about the "best" way to do things, and blizzard is reacting like they would with wow. Oh said class has an overpowered ability, lets nerf it. When really this is not wow and people will always have opinions on the "best" way to do things.

I want to log on, go through a run with 3 friends and have all of us find a legendary, 10 rares, and a bunch of blues along the run, I want to find 1 piece of gear per run that is something good that my class can use (doesn't need to be an upgrade just something good enough to use.) I want to run inferno mode and feel POWERFUL when I have good gear, not struggle like I'm a rabbit running from a fox. I want mechanics to feel challenging and basic attacks wimpy (Skill based, even if its bullet hell style). I want this game to be fun to play with a group of friends. Is that to much to ask? Why does this need to be injected with the elitist design of wow?

If people want to chain run for 30 hours and find 100 legendaries then let them, let them post them on the RMAH; LET THE AMOUNT OF ITEMS DROP PRICES (you make 1 buck off the top so it doesn't really matter, PLUS you made 600 million off this game already.) Increasing the values is just frustrating. Forcing the playerbase to farm THIS WAY and no other is not fun; NERFING drop rates and gold find is not fun. Finding loot and rare gold piles that are 2000g is fun! Identifying items is fun; ESP when they can be good. Sets of gear are fun too.... if they drop, ever.

I understand the wish to make the AH work, esp the RMAH. But do you read these forums? This is the worst feedback I have ever seen towards ANY company... LISTEN TO US!.
Edited by Mortae#1162 on 6/20/2012 6:14 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
Posts: 116
I think you're asking why we made the following changes, so that's what I'm going to attempt to answer for you. (If that's not why you made this post, please let me know.)

Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time

Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses

Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed

Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.

We're already working on another developer blog that delves more deeply in to our current philosophy regarding Magic Find gear swapping, why it's our current philosophy, and how we're looking at improving Magic Find in general, so that will probably provide insight on this particular topic. No solid date on that blog yet, but it's definitely coming soon(tm).

Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain

Please note that these monsters still have a chance to drop two Magic items, but that those drops are just no longer guaranteed.

Also, keep in mind the following:
  • Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality

Now, if you have feedback regarding what you think we could better with these mechanics, then please feel free to post your ideas and thoughts in this thread. I'll be reading along and relaying what you have to say.

(Click [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5888889794?page=26#502"]here[/url] for next "Blizz" post.)

how funny is it that we cant downrank a blizzard response. we dont mind changing to mg gear... only YOU DO. b/c you dont want it to effect your precious RMAH... we dont want increased repair costs... only you do... you are soooo downranked... just read the posts. and keep losing those that even bother to read the forums... alot of players just quit you know... they dont bother trying to read or post here.
Also.. wtheck happened to letting players decide how they play... Seriously this play our way or gtFUDGEo attitude is just disgraceful to a gaming company.
The new patch sucks and everyone I know dont want to play anymore.
55 Human Death Knight
Posts: 124
Why was it necessary for my Wizard to lose 20k dmg in the patch? I mean.. damn really? Don't replace the dmg stats with anything useful either. You see I was actually farming inferno before the nerf. Wasted that gold I guess.

I don't even want to play him anymore because every time I look @ 41k I get depressed knowing how much I invested to get him enough dmg to do Act2 Pre1.0.3.

Then I log on him because my monk friend is dieing to do some inferno farming - 31k repair bill. Why does Bliz make these knee jerk responses? If you fixed inferno like you say you did then the corpse-rushing will stop on it's own.
Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun

I hate to sound abrupt, and mean no disrespect, but who are you to decide what your players consider to be fun?

why are you people hypocrites, I'm one of many who agrees that carrying around mf gear and swapping isnt fun. So why would you tell Me that it is fun? Why would most efficient way to play be the one that isn't as fun as it could be if i didnt have to do the gear swapping ? Is it actually fun for you, or you just like getting better items? What if you could have that without swapping gear or carrying around mf gear? Do you see what I'm getting at?

P.S To the people who are asking the most repeated narrow-minded question here "why do you tell us what is fun" - The answer is - I told them that it isnt fun, we did, people told them here on forums, dont believe me ? Look it up. Also if you have sense of logic you'd understand that its a simply not a good design or a game mechanic and its clunky. Mf is a stat and if it is to be in the game, it should be more like a decision of "Do i want to use this item with 190 dex and 4 crit, or this one with 150 dex 3 crit and 14mf". Rather than "I want max DPS and max MF available to me always! Its fun to me so let me !". Seriously, try to be reasonable.
Edited by Frozenkex#1835 on 6/20/2012 6:18 PM PDT
By the way they increase the amounts of garbage rares and lessen the good lvl63 rares. pointless farming atm. hope they revert to the old rates
I was a big fan of diablo 1, huge fan of 2.
well i am tired of this game already, tired of blizzard, tired of the updates, tired of blizzard again.
I will be uninstalling the game and putting the game away. i can spend my money on much better things.
Greatly dissapointed with Blizzards responses to complaints from their customers and they have lost a big fan.
we are gamers, just not your kind of gamers, go ahead tell me how i want to play the game i bought.
I am done.
I think you're asking why we made the following changes, so that's what I'm going to attempt to answer for you. (If that's not why you made this post, please let me know.)

Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time

Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses

Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed

Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun,..

Who the hell are you to decide what is or is not fun? You and the rest of the development team? Since when is fun an objective thing?

Give me a break, you guys have your head so far up your !@# with this game it's unbelievable.
Posts: 178
I must say, after reading as much as I have today on the forums about this MF issue in particular it confuses my why you wouldn't just remove it as an item stat altogether and make the increases from nephalem valor more complex. That is to say, why wouldn't you just make NV give more MF, remove the stat from gear, but make each stack of valor harder to achieve?

From all the reading I've done, this lends itself to your current iteration of the games philosophy more than any other possible change. You don't want us swapping out MF gear right before something dies.

In a game where values on an item are finite, it is obvious that items with MF would not be best in slot items for damage/survival. Therefore swapping will always be the best practice for those wanting to maximize their chance to get the best loot. This is another thing that is core to the game.
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