Diablo® III

Drop Rates increased but...



I hate to sound abrupt, and mean no disrespect, but who are you to decide what your players consider to be fun?

why are you people hypocrites, I'm one of many who agrees that carrying around mf gear and swapping isnt fun.


That's exactly the point isn't it? You are free to run around doing what YOU think is fun to get gear, or level, or whatever. The rest of us will do our thing, everyone is happy.
Edited by Ailurion#1484 on 6/20/2012 6:14 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
13925
Posts: 116
Just to let you know as an admin. Basically everyone i know and as well as posts which is about 80% do not like the new patch one bit and refuse to play....it just destroyed the game. We are the ones playinig the game who PAYED for it so our feedback should be considered a great deal,
I hope you take this post into serious consideration.


THIS guy is so spot on... some ppl who post here speak for MANY players in their family, and their friends who play. we wont be playing until repair costs are fixed... we dont care about your stupid "philosophy" go play the source code by yourself morons. leave the game alone. and let us have some fun.
1 hour kill 5 elites pack for NV5 then 5 more elite packs
vs
1 hour kill 5 elites pack for NV5 then 5 more elite packs while destroying and searching/breaking 100 containers for more loot chances.

All about odds and number of chances, 10 lottery tickets is not as good as 10 tickets + 100 supplementary tickets. Oh it's fun, even if is a packet of tissue or a 80 inch LCD TV or that golden ticket for a legendary.

Sigh, just not diablo anymore.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5889089948#1
Alllright.. honestly this whole gear swapping and pot breaking discussion is making my head hurt. Although a valid argument, it's a sliver off the tip of the iceberg here. How about we get back to focussing on gear repair costs, IAS and the hugely broken discrepancy between elite pack difficulty.

1) Dying is part of this game and any game with a challenge involving death to characters. Although the previous gear cost was a minor nuissance. Now it's just fun factor -10 when you take into consideration what it was before. If I just picked up the game or just made it to inferno post 1.03, it probably wouldn't have mattered much because people would have just dealt with it. It's kind of like buying a Big Mac combo at Mcdonalds, knowing what you got while you were eating it, and suddenly Ronald Mcdonald came out of nowhere to steal your fries. No issue, if you only bought a Big Mac. You can't add a dying tax to 'challenge' other than time. Forcing people to down a difficulty to farm more gold(or time to keep up) just plain sucks.

2) IAS: refer generally to the points I made in 1. But I will also add this. It just eliminates an option. There were alternatives to IAS dps and still are. IAS just so happened to be the most fun (to me anyway) game mechanic wise. Character speed. I can see the appeal for some people to do slow but massive damage and crit damage. Hence.. those players are not complaining about IAS nerf.

3) Elite packs. Some of the affix combos are cakewalks. Others almost guarantee a death or two regardless of how well you play. This sort of set up is what forced people to exploit 'glass canon' builds in the first place. If you couldn't smash them, at least you could half smash them.. die and come back to finish the job.

Now the game is basically the same, only both the elites got nerfed, and IAS geared people got nerfed. Even though I spent a lot of time having fun gearing my character to deal with this, I wouldn't even mind changing it up but with the new repair costs and the new 'slow motion' state my multimillion gold geared character is now in, I have no interest.

If you wanted to fix the game for melee.. fix it for melee, don't swing the nerf bat on people who weren't complaining and having fun. You didn't want people 'glass canon graveyard zerging' for juicy loot.. make it so you lose NV if you die (not a 10 or 20 min run on hell mode to get new gold)

Anyway, that's where I'm at.. I've gone from playing a crap ton of hours a day to about 1 hour since the new patch. No regrets, $60 worth easy, but I'm not continuing to play something less fun with the possibility of sweeping game changes out there to make the matters even worse.

That's my perspective.

PS: I don't mind the gold AH.. RMAH.. gimme a break.
Personally, I agree that swapping out gear isn't what I want to be doing in regular play. And I've been having better luck in general with drops with the new patch, so I'm liking that. But I'm the kind of player who often checks every barrel, every corpse, every chest I can find. Because to me, it's a treasure hunt, and I just kind of like doing it. I know it's not as profitable as going after champion packs, but sometimes it's fun to just explore this cool world you've created and see what I can find. To me, that's a lot of fun! I love these little side quests and nooks and crannies to explore!

We were told from the beginning that good drops could come from anywhere, and I for one was very happy to hear that! But after breaking hundreds of barrels and vases, it's become apparent to me that good drops cannot come from there anymore. Gladly, you can still find an occasional good gold pile or item from corpses and other places, but the barrels and vases are a waste of space.

There doesn't have to be something in every one of them, but if there's nothing in any of them, why are they there?

I get that people were using them to gold farm and it was getting a little ridiculous, but now it's ridiculous on the other end - there's NOTHING in them anymore.
Personally, I agree that swapping out gear isn't what I want to be doing in regular play. And I've been having better luck in general with drops with the new patch, so I'm liking that. But I'm the kind of player who often checks every barrel, every corpse, every chest I can find. Because to me, it's a treasure hunt, and I just kind of like doing it. I know it's not as profitable as going after champion packs, but sometimes it's fun to just explore this cool world you've created and see what I can find. To me, that's a lot of fun! I love these little side quests and nooks and crannies to explore!

We were told from the beginning that good drops could come from anywhere, and I for one was very happy to hear that! But after breaking hundreds of barrels and vases, it's become apparent to me that good drops cannot come from there anymore. Gladly, you can still find an occasional good gold pile or item from corpses and other places, but the barrels and vases are a waste of space.

There doesn't have to be something in every one of them, but if there's nothing in any of them, why are they there?

I get that people were using them to gold farm and it was getting a little ridiculous, but now it's ridiculous on the other end - there's NOTHING in them anymore.


You even have to pay for breaking them now because, oh well, that urn damaged your magical weapon!

Edit: Spell check
Edited by payLow#2178 on 6/20/2012 6:20 PM PDT
06/20/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Lylirra
Also, extending the post cap (because, hey, discussion is cool). :)


Really? Then why is it that you people have restricted me from creating any threads? I have valid concerns over the reasoning and logic to increasing the repair costs to such a ridiculous amount.

You raised the cost of repairing gear so much to the point people can't even save up to buy anything on the "Gold Auction House", they have to hoard gold for repairs and if they can't get anything to drop they are then forced to spend hard earned money in your "Real Money Auction House" to upgrade gear.

This was by far the most low down, scumbag move ever made by a gaming company. You just spit in all of our faces with 1.03 SHAME ON YOU! You people have destroyed this game and ruined the most beloved game series of all time. Stop lying to people and trying to church up the reason for the increased repair costs. The reason was greed plain and simple.
Please note that these monsters still have a chance to drop two Magic items, but that those drops are just no longer guaranteed.

Also, keep in mind the following:
  • Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality



So you allow more rares to drop on elite packs but you increased wear and tear along with suffering huge repair costs, along with decreasing boss rares. The nerf changes seem to be more negative than positive in my eyes. Why would I want to pay 20-50k gold fighting insane monster affixs for the 5 stack NV when there is a very small chance to find that upgrade for your character? Alsom since IAS is nerfed you have a slower ability to fight those insane monster affixs, which causes you to spend more gold for repairs. The cost in finding the upgrade item is way too high!

I say remove stats from items that a class does not need. Like strength for wizard or intelligence for Barb.
Edited by Sc0rpius#1402 on 6/20/2012 6:26 PM PDT
we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun, and we didn't want the game's mechanics to make players feel like they needed to do that in order to be the most efficient. We also don't want players avoiding fighting monsters just to run after shiny clicky things (we want you to do both). In both situations, this is something we wanted to discourage and we implemented changes we felt would accomplish this.

We're already working on another developer blog that delves more deeply in to our current philosophy regarding Magic Find gear swapping, why it's our current philosophy, and how we're looking at improving Magic Find in general, so that will probably provide insight on this particular topic.


This is exactly the problem. "We think . . . ," "we want . . . ." Dude, you have an entire forum full of THOUSANDS of people, your customers, telling you exactly what they want out of this game - telling you EXACTLY what to do in order to please them AND to make more money. But for some reason it's about what "you want" or what "you think." Get with the program bro! Your loyal customers, who have supported you almost two decades now, are leaving in droves and if you don't respect their opinions, they aren't coming back.

This is primarily a single player game. Why nerf IAS? what is there to gain. Why not let players have the option to be godly if they want? Why not let people farm jugs and chests? why not give people the option to farm bosses OR farm elites, whichever they want? Why not let them use magic find gear if they want, or abstain is they desire? What is wrong with letting the player decide how to play HIS game instead of making him play the game YOU WANT him to play, or YOU THINK he should play? Let the player decide what is fun and run his game accordingly. Please, stop deciding for us.

My theory is that Blizzard has been making amazing games for so long that YOU THINK you're infallible. The developers believe what THEY WANT is what players will want, regardless of the feedback they get. Maybe that's not the truth, but it sure seems like it to those of us on the ground.

You need to get with the program. D3 sucks. It's boring. It's not fun to play. It's frustrating. It's unfair. It's not challenging. It's way off the mark. And in case you didn't know, you don't get too many chances in this game. If the D3 team blows this game, there won't be a D4.
Edited by Easy#1552 on 6/20/2012 6:27 PM PDT
Posts: 423

For example, we're currently looking at a number of solutions for how to curb the popular practice of players swapping out their normal gear for Magic Find gear right before a kill to min/max their efficiency. In general, this isn't something that those players seem to particularly enjoy, but instead feel compelled to do because of how efficient it is.* Also, to be very clear, this practice is not intended. (The developer blog I was talking about previously will go into the solutions we're considering in much more detail.)


How. On. Earth. Did. Blizzard. Not. Think. Of. This. In. Eleven. Years?

You know what? Withdrawn.

Amended: how did Blizzard, with a constant stream of input during beta that directly discussed and addressed this issue, which also repeatedly referenced the fact that it was done constantly in D2, still manage to develop a game where their "intention" was completely and utterly subverted by a design that was the same design as the previous game, where this undesirable behavior was, in fact, both rational and commonplace?

Even assuming that the D3 dev team somehow didn't know this about D2, and that somehow that's okay (which it absolutely is not)... They. Were. Told.

Something is wrong here at a very fundamental level. Whatever it is, it needs to be addressed and changed.
Deleted by UriahHeep
Edited by UriahHeep#1809 on 6/21/2012 3:22 AM PDT
85 Human Warlock
7190
Posts: 90
I can't go fishing anymore...

Because my Dad doesn't think it's fun :(
06/20/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Lylirra
By the way, when players say things like "Blizzard just wants us to play the game the way they want us to play it," that's both true and not true -- but maybe not in the ways that you think. We definitely encourage experimentation, exploration, and variety. We've seen a lot of interesting tactics and builds and play styles develop since launch, and we're still seeing players find new ways to progress their characters. And that's really freaking cool. What we don't want to have happen, though, and where we're most likely to step in make changes, is when a certain tactic or a single way to play becomes the ONLY way to play.


I was happy to see the overall response... and I love this game... but with each update I continue to feel bullied into adapting to the changes... you say you want to encourage experimentation yet the difficulty setting in Inferno does not allow that flexibility so when we the player finds a build/gear set that works and you change it (ie IAS), we have two options, spend a ton more time re-gearing (which might be your goal) or quit...

I understand the time sink elements of WoW, but is this also going to be the norm in Diablo 3? Let me be direct, I mainly play a Demon Hunter, lost thousand of dps to the IAS "fix"... so whats next Crit Damage or one of my passives? Because I have no choice, I am stuck to playing on your server... I know as a former WoW player that's normal but was't expecting this in Diablo 3...

I am frustrated feel like I bought a game, like how it works, and accepted the rules that I paid for... but are they just going to keep changing? MMORPG changes are a bummer... and they make me want to shelf this game... cause I didn't buy a MMORPG...
Posts: 194


Ultimately, we think players running around with an entire set of Magic Find gear and swapping out those pieces every time they want to open a chest, smash a pot, or click on a weapon rack isn't really all that fun


FIRSTLY THANK YOU FOR A RESPONSE!

I hope you are still reading this thread lyliarra because what i want to say is constructive so i hope you read.

The reason i quoted this out of everything you said in both posts was to adress something that this game and many other games have been doing wrong. It is you guys telling us what is and is not fun. It leads to more complaints then it does praise.

Us gamers do not need a company to tell us what is and is not fun. The idea of a game is to find the fun. THis was done very well in Diablo 2 by the way of customization (yes i know the whole blizzard argument on this and i hope you continue to read). In Diablo 2 you had to pick and choose your spells and pick and choose your stat points which allowed the gamer to essentially choose how he wanted to have fun. Diablo 3 does this to a certain extent, but could have been improved upon. Instead of forcing stat points on players there could have simply been the option to auto level your stats or assign them to whatever it is you choose with a massive warning (for the first couple times) stating "IF YOU CHOOSE YOUR OWN STATS YOU CANNOT REVERT" this still allow customization for the elites and still allow the more casual to just play for fun.

There are alot more issues about the whole idea of telling us what is not fun and what is, but i think you understand the point. All people wanted with this game was to be able to have a character and say "This is MY Barbarian" not "My Barbarian has different gear which makes us different" I hope you can take my post and shoot it up to the devs (tho I have a feeling they would not like this idea).

Thank you for your read Lyliarra, i greatly appreciate it
A possible solution for you.
Make it so Magic find effects the monsters when they spawn 'aka ' the group as a whole when they advance to the next area.
Posts: 193
I'd also like to point out a few ideas here.

The end game of Diablo is to farm. A repetitive practice in itself. The pay off is a possibility of a really good item. This is Diablo. It always was Diablo. Though I can concede that D2 had a lot more to it, especially in the item customization and builds.

If you prohibit or make it really difficult to do this, you are destroying the game. You are "ending" the game experience. Blizzard has always stated they want the best gaming experience possible.

This is why people are upset deep down inside at "end game" levels. You are destroying the core value of this game by merit of "game experience".

1. Dying in 1 hit. (Not fun)
2. Progression is extremely difficult (Not fun, see #1, causes more "repetitive farming", which you dislike)
3. Extremely difficulty killing certain "affixed" elites/mobs. (Not fun)
4. Trying to discourage people from "Farming". (Not fun, the ONLY thing to do at end game).
5. Controlling gamers behavioral patterns of "how" the game should be played (not fun and irritating).

Focus on what people say is wrong in your game and fix them. If you think someones behavioral pattern of playing the game is wrong, please for the love of God try and ignore it. THEY ARE HAVING FUN. Patterns === Fun. Patterns !== "fix me".
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