Diablo® III

normal players caught in the crossfire

Playing through the beta and the first month of this game, I had a great time breaking rooms full of vases or opening resplendent treasure chests. The loot explosions from these chests were very gratifying. I wasn’t abusing mechanics; I was just playing the game pretty much how you guys originally envisioned it: finding elites while exploring many different areas and finishing the play sessions by killing a boss. Being a boss, it had a slightly more epic feel than the elites when it went down dropping two, sometimes three, yellows- which I felt was a great way to end magic finding runs.

As people began to "abuse" mechanics by mapping out efficient ways to find goblins, chests and the like you have nerfed most of this stuff to the state of “why do I even bother walking the extra ten yards to break this vase”, or “why do I bother entering this side dungeon aside from finding an elite pack in there, when I can find elite packs every other place a come across as well?”

Now with 1.03, something that was fixed during beta with the introduction of Nephalem Valor has been once again broken in my opinion. To me, magic finding in Diablo ends with a boss kill, which should still guarantee two yellows. Just the fact that you made elite packs guarantee an extra yellow by itself should already give adequate incentive for people to continue killing elites in single games, not necessarily do 5 stacking then immediately kill bosses. However, the people who do enjoy 5 stacking then boss killing should have the option of a nice finale to their magic finding runs.

Vases, chests, and (probably soon) goblins being toned down are all just side effects of one of the two major problems with Diablo 3. Namely: The maps are not random. I could probably tell a friend over the phone how to get through 90% of the zones in the game without actually seeing the maps. Having slightly variable spawn locations of side dungeons and VERY mild randomization in the maps (see Act 4 of the Cathedral as example) is not adequate randomization. As a result, people have been able to map out where these goblins, chests, etc. are going to be. The band aids put in place to prevent over exploitation of mappable zones are hurting normal players, while not truly addressing the actual problem.

The second major problem is that for some reason the design team feels compelled to tell us how to play the game. This game is comprised on layers and layers of math, so it should be possible to make ANY way players want to gather wealth closely similar to each other. The push for “just kill elites, they drop the best loot” does not take the time to consider that some players would rather break rooms of vases (don’t know why, but some people seem to enjoy doing so, so I say let them as long as its about the same/slightly less gold per hour as any other activity), or kill bosses along with the elites. Let us play the game how we want to, and make any path just as viable as others.

My suggestions are that your design team pumps out a number of map variants for pretty much every zone. You could even design a map generator to have the community do it for you, I myself would love an opportunity to design levels. With an adequate number of maps, like in Diablo 2, people will not easily be able to determine the exact location of side dungeons, treasure goblins etc. As such, you can return these to their original glory to where they are enjoyable again. For a game that you claim is designed to last ten years, the lack of true random maps is a huge pitfall IMO.

Secondly, return bosses to two guaranteed yellows when players have 5 stacks. I think a cool idea would be to give bosses 2-3 random affixes as well, that reset every time you engage them. This could make for some really fun and interesting boss encounters, keep the feel of bosses epic, and add an extra layer of difficulty to justify the extra loot.

Finally, resplendent chests, pots, crypts, etc could all be augmented to drop very tiny amounts of gold/items with no buffs to somewhat respectable amounts of drops once players reach 5 stacks of the buff. This would allow for a balance of having fun destroying breakables while engaging elite packs to ensure the character has stacks.
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+1
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I agree with most, but not the ending. I don't think that any of the changes to breakables/chests/vases should of been made permanent. The whole point of a game like Diablo3 is the mountains of variable loots.
Just put a little script in there that lowers the drop rate for someone who 'just' joined a game so that they have to stay in the same game to get good loots. XD
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I appreciate the offer but I have other games I'm glad to play in the interim should Diablo 3 continue to lose my interest. I really just wanted to share my opinions in this thread on some of the most critical flaws in the game to hopefully get a blue to read at very least.

All they really have to do is truly randomize the maps, then they could bring pots, goblins, and chests all back to their original glory IMO :(.
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90 Human Rogue
17290
06/19/2012 07:28 PMPosted by Lytic
some players would rather break rooms of vases (don’t know why, but some people seem to enjoy doing so, so I say let them as long as its about the same/slightly less gold per hour as any other activity), or kill bosses along with the elites. Let us play the game how we want to, and make any path just as viable


Two things;

Bots can break vases 24 hours a day inflating the gold market to a point where it costs 50 million to buy anything. No human canfarm that so everyone has to buy gold.

Before this patch farming pots was far and away te best way to get gear and gold. So much so that the actual game was not being played. Slap on 300% MF and corpse run to vases over and over for 10 hours.

Something had to be done. Those people still have umpteen millions sitting around so don't feel too bad for them
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If the maps were randomized, the bots couldn't effectively get to the correct areas. They aren't so they can.
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And like I was mentioning earlier, there are "in between" solutions to this problem, make it so that the amount of gold from these pots increases the more stacks you have seems like a pretty elegant solution IMO.

I don't feel bad for any of the multi-billionaires in this game at all...I'm just suggesting that they look into ways to fix the problems these "exploiting" players have created for them in manners that do not have such a negative impact on the normal players out there.
Edited by Lytic#1611 on 6/20/2012 4:20 PM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
17290
I agree, returning random breakables to their former drop rates while at 5 stacks seems like a great idea.

As a barbarian I hated having to walk over and melee every vase to ensure there wasn't a legendary item in it so I'm quite happy this way.

That said your idea makes sense.
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+1.

I appreciate that this post wasn't just /nerdrage and that it was not written in txtspk.

I am under no illusions that Blizzard will allow us to design our own levels. That would create a worse problem that it would solve, unless those levels were outside of the battle.net world (which would impact their RMAH). As much as I want this game to be mod-friendly (ahhh, Eastern Sun D2, how I loved the life you breathed into an aged game), I don't see it in the cards for a long, long time (if ever).

But the rest... yeah. I remember when the Great Vase Patch of 2012 happened, and I've definitely stopped even trying when Im not on my wizard (where electrocute seems to destroy stuff without extra clicks).
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Thank you Zurich,

I'm trying to keep this post civil to express my opinions without getting into fights here, which as a long time forum lurker I know is a very hard thing to do.

I was thinking something along the lines of a service within the D3 login screen that allowed for creation of levels to be sent to Blizzard to cherry-pick new ones for their database, not necessarily be uploaded live into the game upon creation. Basically doing the work for them, then letting them decide which ones they liked. I really enjoyed doing this with Starcraft 1, personally I found level creation by itself an enjoyable activity.
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+1 Lytic. Not sure I like the idea of random affixes on bosses, but definitely agree with everything else you said.

Haven't played much TL1 in a while. Maybe I'll go back to it while Im waiting for TL2 to be released.
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up to the top, shameless bump
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+1
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I do not care how other people play, this is not a mmo
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I have yet to reach level 60 or Inferno, but, from a leveling standpoint, there is just no reason for pots and vases to exist anymore. They're just background visuals now.
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