Diablo® III

Expansion(s)?...but we vanquished Satan...

90 Blood Elf Priest
6165
No, he simply left the council to contemplate his failures, to contemplate life and death, how the worldstone could've been taken and how its destruction would change creation. He left 20 years prior, when Tyrael destroying it.

Okay, doesn't answer my question about Inarius' corruption/Lilith's purification but atleast you clarified why he, Malthael, left.
06/23/2012 07:48 PMPosted by Melyria
Fate and wisdom aren't the same thing though.

I wasn't trying to state that fate and wisdom were the same. I was stating that if the archangel of Fate, (not knowing what would happen with the Nephalem) and the archangel of Hope (why we didn't give up unless thats just an angel thing) don't affect the Nephalem than it would follow suit that Malthael the archangel of wisdom can't fully comprehend us/our power, like he can't understand life/death.
Edited by Deamon#1918 on 6/23/2012 8:01 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
06/23/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Angellinea
Um does that mean Inarius was corrupted when he decided to create Sanctuary,


Inarius wanted a place of peace and harmony. He wanted to stop fighting. His nature was inherently good. Meanwhile, Lilith left just to spite her father, Mephisto.

Inarius worked with Lilith because he wanted peace for all. Lilith worked with Inarius because "Screw you daddy".

So their motivations were entirely based on their own natures, good and evil.

Imperius' desire to destroy humanity stems from the fact that they are hellspawn. He wouldn't work with hellspawn to destroy more hellspawn.

06/23/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Angellinea
How can two completely opposite beings (Demons and Angels) reproduce ANYTHING when they are completely different species?


Angels and Demons were originally one being, Anu The One. Furthermore, in the Book of Cain its said that there wasn't any physical mating but rather a spiritual joining that somehow created the Nephalem. So it was more of a magical, spiritual procreation, nothing physical.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6165
If i remember correctly Scribbles hes in a mirrored room, eyelids ripped open, his body mangled, wings pulled out and hooks placed in his shoulder blades forced to look at himself for all eternity. It would be cool if we saved him or something. I mean ALL humans of sanctuary owe their existence to him so that could be an expansion in theory.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6165
06/23/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Melyria
So their motivations were entirely based on their own natures, good and evil.

If they were truly good/evil they would have nothing to do with each other. Inarius would have made sanctuary JUST for him and his followers. Lilith would then come later. If they were TRULY good/evil they would have existed on opposite sides of sanctuary living in peace but also purposely ignoring each other b/c they believed the other was either corrupt or too pure.
Imperius' desire to destroy humanity stems from the fact that they are hellspawn. He wouldn't work with hellspawn to destroy more hellspawn.

I'm not saying Imperius should like us I'm saying, especially after killing the Prime Evil (granted we released him) that humans, specifically Nephalem CAN be used for good. And he should also realized that he couldn't destroy us even if he wanted to because we destroyed someone who beat him with a stab and a roar.
06/23/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Melyria
it was more of a magical, spiritual procreation, nothing physical.

Thank you for clarifying that for me, I have not read any of the Diablo lore books and my limited knowledge is based on diablo.wikia.com XD
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
06/23/2012 07:59 PMPosted by Angellinea
If they were truly good/evil they would have nothing to do with each other.


Not true. There are different aspects of being 'good'. Trust is a sign of being good. Hope is another.

Meanwhile, doing good to spite your father is, inherently, self destructive, selfish and undermines any nobility within the act.

06/23/2012 07:59 PMPosted by Angellinea
If they were TRULY good/evil they would have existed on opposite sides of sanctuary living in peace but also purposely ignoring each other b/c they believed the other was either corrupt or too pure.


The Book of Cain says it took time for the demons/angels to co-mingle. They eventually reached some sort of equalibriem by being within proximity to one another. So in a sense they did corrupt/purify one another a little.

06/23/2012 07:59 PMPosted by Angellinea
I'm not saying Imperius should like us I'm saying, especially after killing the Prime Evil (granted we released him) that humans, specifically Nephalem CAN be used for good. And he should also realized that he couldn't destroy us even if he wanted to because we destroyed someone who beat him with a stab and a roar.


Except Imperius could destroy us. Angels and demons have the power to do things Nephalem can't. If Imperius was given the thumbs up, he'd be able to effectively nuke all of Sanctuary, your character included, and wipe them from existance.

Nephalem are not inherently better than angels or demons in every, single regard. I somehow doubt, for instance, that your character would've been able to destroy the Diamond Gate just by shouting. Or open portals to Heaven/Hell. Or to summon up enough strength to throw a sword through a mountain sized diamond.

The only way a Nephalem can attain true power, power that surpasses Angels/Demons in every way, is by doing what Uldyssian did. Sacrifice themselves on a spiritual and physical, metaphysical level.

Just because we could best Diablo Prime doesn't mean we're invicible. It means that we can physically harm and damage the Prime Evil. We're not immune to their power and if Diablo stepped on us... we'd still squish like a pumpkin.

If Imperius walked up behind your character and shoved his spear up your butts, you'd be dead.
Edited by Melyria#1246 on 6/23/2012 8:11 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6165
06/23/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Melyria
in a sense they did corrupt/purify one another a little.

Okay, I didn't know that. Like i said before I haven't really read Diablo lore books.
06/23/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Melyria
Just because we could best Diablo Prime doesn't mean we're invicible

You're right Nephalem aren't invincible. BUT in a fair fight against Imperius, assuming we're past Act IV in the time line, then we are strong enough to beat him. You're right if Diablo decided to hide in the crystal arch and stab us, when we entered, from behind we would have died immediately, it would also have enraged just about every single player. I never said that Nephalem have to surpass angels and demons in every single way I just said that we could best them phsyically if you're a barb/monk or at ranged if you're a DH, in the arcane if you're a wizard or in poison/undead/voodoo/w/e i forgot that WDs can do if you're a WD.
Side note: Is this just annoying to you or do you enjoy it? I'm actually having fun lol, but if you want me to stop I will.
Edit: Its 11:30 where i live so I'm going to go to bed but before i do i realized that instead of saying that Nephalem just surpass them in this as this class that i could have just said that the Nephalem surpass the demons/angels in combat.
Edited by Deamon#1918 on 6/23/2012 8:30 PM PDT
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I like the "how could Imperius beat us?... D beat him and we beat D" logic.

I think another good metaphor is if your were challenged to a sword fight by a master swordsman that had never even come close to losing a fight and you'd never touched a sword in your life.

How could you possibly hope to win?

Hooky religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side :)

Point being, the Nephalim possess both good and evil and so can choose to use either at any given time, giving them more adaptation, capacity and willingness to learn, adjust and overcome what (Tyrael made it clear) the angels were to stubborn to do.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
06/23/2012 08:23 PMPosted by Angellinea
Side note: Is this just annoying to you or do you enjoy it? I'm actually having fun lol, but if you want me to stop I will.


I enjoy debate. I can be forward and blunt about my points though.

06/23/2012 08:23 PMPosted by Angellinea
You're right Nephalem aren't invincible. BUT in a fair fight against Imperius, assuming we're past Act IV in the time line, then we are strong enough to beat him. You're right if Diablo decided to hide in the crystal arch and stab us, when we entered, from behind we would have died immediately, it would also have enraged just about every single player. I never said that Nephalem have to surpass angels and demons in every single way I just said that we could best them phsyically if you're a barb/monk or at ranged if you're a DH, in the arcane if you're a wizard or in poison/undead/voodoo/w/e i forgot that WDs can do if you're a WD.


And here's the thing. No matter what we will beat Malthael if we fight him. Or Imperius. OR anyone, for that matter. So people seem to have a false impression of what a Nephalem's power is, that they think they're some sort of juggernaught that could literally wade through thousands of enemies and not be touched.

Its true, a Nephalem is powerful. Their magic and blows are inherently damaging to even those 'immune' to death. But people are also underestimating the fact that our characters are all battle ready humans. Each wields power or skill that aids them in their battles. Being Nephalem isn't enough.

So yes, if Imperius wanted to he could just snap his fingers and activate whatever weapon the High Heavens had and could just unmake Sanctuary. Or he could lead the Hosts of Heaven into Sanctuary and when we joined the battle, simple kill you with a well placed arrow or bolt of lightning.

So it isn't a matter of "Well he can't take us", because he might not 1v1, but nobody said anything about 1v1. If he really thought humanity was a threat, it'd be more likely he'd hijack that weapon or lead the army into Sanctuary, rather than going to the Hells for aid.
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But think about the opening cinematic for act 4....

Diablo shows up (alone for the moment) at heavens gate.

Does Imperius call every angel in earshot to join him to all charge Diablo at once to wipe him out in a quick devestating strike? No... he is going to face him 1on1 cause he has pride and is the embodiment of Valor.

A good tactition would have nuked D with everything the moment they saw him.

So, in this sense it seems Imperius is bound by his own wiring (or whatever makes him Valor) to do things in what HE feels is an honorable/valorous way.
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Imperius wanted Sanctuary destroyed but abided by the councils decision (even though he technicaly hadthe power to do it on his own).
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I dont know...
The more I think about it (and talk about it) I dont think Imperius will be an enemy we must fight in an expansion (or at least not to kill).

I mean his dislikie of humanity and the nephalim are because of demonic bloodlines (racist maybe?) but he isnt evil... misguided maybe but ultimatly he is Valor... he'll end up on the side of good in the end I bet.... and humanity is always, at least a little, more good then evil.
Edited by Kalius#1481 on 6/23/2012 9:02 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
But think about the opening cinematic for act 4....

Diablo shows up (alone for the moment) at heavens gate.

Does Imperius call every angel in earshot to join him to all charge Diablo at once to wipe him out in a quick devestating strike? No... he is going to face him 1on1 cause he has pride and is the embodiment of Valor.

A good tactition would have nuked D with everything the moment they saw him.

So, in this sense it seems Imperius is bound by his own wiring (or whatever makes him Valor) to do things in what HE feels is an honorable/valorous way.


It may be less about pride and more that he saw Diablo first and, being an overwhelming being of courage, felt absolutely no fear. So he just charged as he was the first one on the scene.

I think what people see as pride, they're actually seeing a lack of fear from Imperius. He's not afraid to speak his mind, take action or even wrestle with another member of the Council.
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It may be less about pride and more that he saw Diablo first and, being an overwhelming being of courage, felt absolutely no fear. So he just charged as he was the first one on the scene.

I think what people see as pride, they're actually seeing a lack of fear from Imperius. He's not afraid to speak his mind, take action or even wrestle with another member of the Council.


The moment when he realized he couldn't win, he should've mexicomancered in all his homies with baseball bats.

That's what I would've done.
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The prophecy/all hints are pointing to Valor falling into Wrath, it's also potentially telegraphed by Tyreal's word regarding Kulle. "Those that fight evil long enough loose themselves". So It is easily in the realm that Imperius will be the antagonist in the expansion.

The scene of Malthael reflecting the Axe was entirely the director of the animated short and surprised the Blizzard guys when they saw it, and found it cool. It is in the commentary, but I would not read to much into it beyond that as any hint as to how things will act.

Also, Courage requires fear, Courage is doing an action despite the fear. If he felt no fear, there is no courage involved.
Edited by Hawkeye#1722 on 6/24/2012 12:32 AM PDT
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Diablo gets reborn, along with all prime evils; Anu appears too.
Anu vs Tathamet, requires aid of Nephalem, both die, existence is destroyed, expansion ends.
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We don't know this for sure. If Malthael taps into a universal concept, it's fully possible he'd become stronger than Diablo Prime. Remember, Diablo Prime is not Tethemat, that would require all of Hell to be compressed into a single being, landscape and all.


Landscape being made of demon, anyway.
But i do hope that you are right about Malthael.
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Killing Diablo in D2 didn't prevent Blizzard from making an expansion set about Baal.

Kinda wish they had given Mephisto his own expansion as well.


06/23/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Melyria
Killing Diablo then going after Baal is a little different than killing the Prime Evil then fighting a corrupted Angel or chasing a Witch.


I'll agree on Adria, but chasing a corrupted angel is almost the same thing, if not better than chasing Baal. We've never fought an angel before, they're on par in strength with the Prime Evils and it opens up a bunch of new possibilities.

So whoever it is, they won't be as strong as Diablo was,


We don't know this for sure. If Malthael taps into a universal concept, it's fully possible he'd become stronger than Diablo Prime. Remember, Diablo Prime is not Tethemat, that would require all of Hell to be compressed into a single being, landscape and all.


We have fought Izual twice, we have fought an angel before. We have fought the overlords (the Butcher demon...) who are the twisted, deformed and corrupted followers of Inarius (plot hole the size of a small moon...) who were angels, now corrupted.

Baal was the lord of destruction, the most powerful of the Prime evils in direct combat power, due to his... well power over destruction. He was played up for the Lord of Destruction expansion over Diablo (Diablo is never determined to be the most difficult, or more powerful, of the lords, just the last imprisoned) since he was martially powerful, not to mention his possession of Tal Rasha, whos power would be combined with his own, to make his even more powerful than his previous incarnation. It made sense that he would be a more difficult boss, the expansion developed naturally.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
06/24/2012 02:15 AMPosted by Covered
We have fought Izual twice, we have fought an angel before.


Izual was an angel's spirit shoved into a demon's body. Not the same thing, as they do not possess the same skills and powers. Izual is a demon who has an angel driving him.

06/24/2012 02:15 AMPosted by Covered
We have fought the overlords (the Butcher demon...) who are the twisted, deformed and corrupted followers of Inarius (plot hole the size of a small moon...) who were angels, now corrupted.


This was pre-Sin War retcon, wherein Angels were not very well described. Overlords, such as the Butcher, are now demons sewn together out of a number of other demons.
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*posted by Melyria* So yes, if Imperius wanted to he could just snap his fingers and activate whatever weapon the High Heavens had and could just unmake Sanctuary. Or he could lead the Hosts of Heaven into Sanctuary and when we joined the battle, simple kill you with a well placed arrow or bolt of lightning.

So it isn't a matter of "Well he can't take us", because he might not 1v1, but nobody said anything about 1v1. If he really thought humanity was a threat, it'd be more likely he'd hijack that weapon or lead the army into Sanctuary, rather than going to the Hells for aid.


did you know that there is something called RESISTANCE so if you are lvl 60 with 100% all
resist then the "well placed arrow of bolt of lightning" will do 0 DAMAGE so diablo cant give you a stab in the but and kill you or imperius won't wont give you instant kill with a back stab which means you are ultimately IMMORTAL if you have 100 % resistance from inferno items used in hell mode
Edited by MrRoberto on 6/24/2012 8:15 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
*posted by Melyria* So yes, if Imperius wanted to he could just snap his fingers and activate whatever weapon the High Heavens had and could just unmake Sanctuary. Or he could lead the Hosts of Heaven into Sanctuary and when we joined the battle, simple kill you with a well placed arrow or bolt of lightning.

So it isn't a matter of "Well he can't take us", because he might not 1v1, but nobody said anything about 1v1. If he really thought humanity was a threat, it'd be more likely he'd hijack that weapon or lead the army into Sanctuary, rather than going to the Hells for aid.


did you know that there is something called RESISTANCE so if you are lvl 60 with 100% all
resist then the "well placed arrow of bolt of lightning" will do 0 DAMAGE so diablo cant give you a stab in the but and kill you or imperius won't wont give you instant kill with a back stab which means you are ultimately IMMORTAL if you have 100 % resistance from inferno items used in hell mode


Okay. Play hardcore inferno. That is your test on how possible it is to survive.

You'd find out that even an elite pack of zombies would kill any adventurer.
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