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Regarding the item-farming and time-suck hard, I have to say I agree completely. What bothers me more is when I'm trying to do what you were doing, essentially playing ALL of act 1 by starting a later quest and farming off all elites with 5 stacks, only to find gear that's not even relevant past act 2 of Hell. I was happy that I could finally get ilvl 63 gear, but I can't say I like it at the expense of also getting more useless crap over getting at least semi-disappoint (read as: not what I wanted at all) ilvl 61-63 gear.
The problem is I can't progress any further with my current gear, and using the AH is going to cost be about 10 million to upgrade to what I need.
I do enjoy Inferno ACT1.
It is hard but not to the point that I just want to give up. So far, ACT2 is still giving me that feeling: I just wanna quit!
However, I really miss the skill system in D2, that does make my Necro a different one to others: a poison/bone/corpse explosion Necro.
It was fun!
Love this post!
This is my dream D3.
1. Community driven!
2. Item sets and uniques (legendary) that have predetermined stats ranges (like D2).
3. Increase difficulty for Normal, Nightmare, Hell. (new sets and uniques being useful here)
4. Best items can be found in Hell but with a low chance of getting them. Nephalem buff and MF gear would raise it to equal to inferno % of drops.
5. Increase difficulty of Inferno by increasing the amount of monsters in each pack. Removing the cheapness of the current state of Inferno.( No one shot kills and ridiculous health pools.)
6. Inferno does not scale when players join the game. 4 semi geared players could clear inferno when working together - (a little harder then Icarus hard). Inferno should be do-able via group and solo'd by only a uber geared player. Making Inferno hard for those who want it hard (single player) and easier for those who dont want to have a time suck (4 players.)
Edited by Vash#1422 on 7/2/2012 12:05 AM PDT
Inferno = lucky if you have 2 builds, no build diversity, ruled by dps, if you are lucky you can throw a little bit into defensive stats if you get good drops or can afford the stupid AH prices, in the end it is not very "FUN". Dying because you cannot control vortex mobs and insane elemental damage in Act 3 is definitely not my idea of "FUN", sure its hard but its not because I do not lack the skills in kiting or making melee builds, its always, always because of uncontrollable CC effects of champion/elite mobs and overpowered elemental or arcane/walling effects, where is the fun in that, you cannot get out, you die, simple as that.
This game frustrates me no end, I have played many MMORPG and both Diablo 1 & 2 in their time, however this is different, it requires a constant stream of gold from farming to either buy gear/repair - where is the "FUN" in that, and believe me I always cringe when I see the name "raiding sword" or whatever in loot, there is no freakin' raid in this game, and the designers should treat it as such and stop implementing stupid things like enrage.
I could go on and on forever about all the problems with this game, but I won't, unless things change dramatically and soon, I'll just stop playing because there is REAL "FUN" to be had elsewhere.
Thanks for wasting my time...
The problem with the game is that , even in inferno, the champ packs are the most poorly designed game encounter in any game ever created.
You have some mobs, which are harder than the Acts boss and they drop arcane beams. Normally, you just run around them, and prior to inferno, packs were more of a nuisance, to me, than anything else. But, at inferno, even with high resist, they'll either chain fear you , and/or put walls up, while you're stuck in poison/fire, then place 3-4 beams down, and kill you in quickly,etc... everyone here knows what happens. There isn't really anything you can except die, even with the resist. It's completely stupid. Kiting things is the only strategy and sometimes it can become impossible do to the location and possibly other mobs during the encounter.
Oh and the rubberbanding is annoying, especially when the champ packs are around dropping arcane beams, lots of fun there...
The regular mobs on inferno are , for the most part, not challenging. ACT 1 and it's boss do not prepare the player for Act 2,etc...
Edited by Aiwaz#1809 on 7/2/2012 12:20 AM PDT
Just read the OP, and I love the post... I think the very hard difficulty and exponential stat increase of iLvl 62-63 have led to this situation...
... but ultimately it comes down to the AH and botting. For every one of us normal players that would like what you want, there is an exploiter and botter waiting to pounce on ez-mode loot, and that just can't be left to happen anymore. This isn't the wild west (D2).
Edited by Onetwo#1132 on 7/2/2012 12:26 AM PDT
You are right , but you did not need all those to progress , you needed the good items to roflstomp the enemy. Right now just to progress you need to farm many runs , and even with that you don't get the proper items , you get enough money for AH.
In fact they could reduce drop rates a bit and increase the minimum roll amount for each stat and it could still be better :P
Edited by Dreamer#6177 on 7/2/2012 12:42 AM PDT
None of those items were NEEDED in D2 to play all the content in the game. All they did were help you kill even faster or survive being a bit more abrasive when deciding to jump into a huge pack of monsters. And sure you may have never found a windforce or CoA. But after playing for a few 100 hours, you most likely found parts to nearly every set, multiple rares (even if not "uber") and items which were helpful to your character. With LOD and runes/scrolls you could use some stash space to give yourself some bonuses which gave greater gear possibilities. There were just more options and the action moved at a more enjoyable pace.
85 Troll Hunter
Game was really fun until Inferno Act 2. My wife and I played our first toons until we beat the game in normal. She quit. I kept going with a DH until 60 playing in public games until I cleared Inferno Act 1. It was mostly easy, at times challenging, but always fun.
Now I'm solo clearing Inferno Act 2 because the groups I'm getting can't handle it. It's all just kiting now. I basically find a terrain "island", clear it out, drag elite packs back there and go round and round in a circle until they're dead.
It's kinda boring. I'm getting close to giving up D3.
Game was fun, but nothing lasts forever.
Good job Blizz. . . . now where's MoP?
Edited by JasonOlson#1503 on 7/2/2012 1:06 AM PDT
I am going to have to disagree with you on this point. Before bots infested D2 like a virus, it was still pretty damn near impossible to find decent gear to be Icarus-Hard as well. I had to still grind gear in order to even be able to take a few hits w/o spamming pots for health. Before bots, being able to afford/find runes was also "Time-Suck-Hard."
... you will still have barbs kiting like cowards and RDPS classes getting one or two shotted in inferno no matter what gear they have...
Under-geared Barbs still were being owned w/o proper All Resist + Life Steal equipment, and Range and Casters in D2 ALSO, got 1-2 shotted in D2 if you didn't have a high enough DPS to kill mobs before they reached you.
To add to that point, BECAUSE the game is so hard, D3 is also 'Chess hard'. I cannot deviate from a few core defensive strategies and not get owned. I am pigeonholed into a few strats because its about survival...What they are really saying is 'Make my class OP' so I can do some cool stuff too!
I do agree with you on this point, however, and may I say I am patiently waiting for this to be the case in D3 as well.
Edited by FireZombie#1628 on 7/2/2012 1:13 AM PDT
I completely agree, I feel like a game like Diablo doesn't need to be super 'Hardcore', it just needs to be fun. I feel like Blizzard was trying to make the game more mainstream and competitive, but that just ruined the exploration and adventurousness that the previous games allowed for.
I rolled a DH first up - had a lot of fun with IAS, albeit with low DPS (24k). Got stuck in A2 prior to patch. Got tired, rolled a wiz after patch and have now clued onto the AH and have had to research builds to get Max DPS. I don't mind farming A1 which I can do solo after maybe 2m spent carefully buying stuff on the GAH to suit the build (CC/CD) however.....the drops seriously need to be changed.
Tell me this - WHY would a 1h wizard wand, need +140 dex? Should these class-only weaps not have class-only stats? Why do Legendaries have varying stats? I see some worth 100k, and the same item with a dif roll going for several mil? Also - if your in Inferno which seemingly "is" D3....and you need to be lvl 60 to even play Inferno....why should there be any yellow ilvl 51-59 items drop? They are beyond useless even in Hell. The vendors sell worse crap than you find also which makes them void of any purpose except splurging your gold on. I believe it was Jay who said you can farm 3-400k in an hour easily. I think not. Go play A1 inferno, get your 5NV stack, do a butcher run + trash mobs on the way and Jay - you TELL me that you can get 3-400k gold in an hour. It isn't possible, unless your able to find something worth selling on the AH for a reasonable price....but it has to sell first ;)
Look at people's stats for example. I have a few mates that have clocked up 120-200hrs, many doing pure gold runs with gold% gear on. Total gold collected? 5, maybe 6M in that total time. Less repairs, less vendor upgrades, less AH gear which you must buy to progress. Leaves you with jack all.
This game should be about progression. Rolling a 5stack to come across an unbeatable affixed mob, that now reset's health regardless of the CD on your respawn....is not progress. Do you want people to waste time HAVING to quit and roll a new game if their gear isn't up to speed? I'm all for mobs healing a little bit, but resetting is a joke. That's not progression, that's pissing people off to the point where they log out and do something else. I can't remember a single D2 game where I had to do that besides running baal's and having a stacked throne with my 97 light sorc trying to level up legitimately. I had more fun running endless Baal's for people to level than I do now trying to get past A2 inferno.
This game is possible, but you need the right gear AND the right build. There's no diversity and that's the point of my rant. D2 you could experiment with par gear and still clear it and it was still fun. The addition of keys/organs/uber trist was for the elite - was doable with the right gear AND build and was still fun.
I could keep going with all the garbage that's currently in the game....this is not what you want from a fan base. Nerf this, nerf that - why nerf something that actually WORKS for the players. If it takes a particular build thats OP to clear inferno to start getting gear for your other characters...let it be. I want to have 1 of each char able to do it...thats my goal and I refuse to use the RMAH as you honestly do NOT deserve any more of my money. Fact.
I generally do not post on these forums but what you just said encapsulates pretty much how I feel about Diablo 3 and why it feels less "fun" than Diablo 2.
1) By trying to balance every class they've snuffed out a lot of the fun variety as you're forced into a few cookie cutters to be viable
2) Skills and rune modifications thereof do not change the nature of the skill enough (for the most part)
3) Itemization needs to give affixes that do more interesting effects at higher rates (not WoW-esque "1.8% chance to" rates)
4) Overemphasis on DPS since Inferno mob health is jacked way too high
5) Agree that Inferno mob damage is so high you need some of the best gear as melee to survive and forget about it if you are wiz or DH (I am a melee with good gear and it's still not fun)
6) Multiplayer scales Inferno too much into painful tedium rather than any real gameplay challenge and so you don't get the socialization or seeing and grouping with interesting builds (if cool builds could even have been allowed, see #1)
D2 player of: frozen orb sorc, firewall sorc, bowazon, javazon, hammerdin, chargadin, corpse explosion nec, WW iceblink (pre-nerf) baba, and (my favorite) singing-stunlock baba
I keep seeing people bring up the fact that "we" don't care about balance. I'm sure there are plenty of you out there that don't (as long as your primary class is the OP one). However, in all games I play, I play all class types. I HATE games that make it easier for one class than another. Nothing bugs me more than to be able to do content on one of my characters and in basically the same level of gear get owned on another. They will NEVER be able to fully balance every class due to all the skills but they should try and I give Bliz a thumbs up for that.
The thing is.... Diablo 3 is still !@#$ing easy.
You missed the points of what the different types of difficulties are, and in my opinion
If it's time consuming hard (that's a big one of Diablo 3) then it really isnt %^-*ing hard.. its a joke.
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