Diablo® III

Banning Linux Users For Using Linux...Really?

I find it ridiculous that people trust the word of a couple random users over a Blizzard employee. It is very, very easy, from a technological standpoint to tell the difference between just using WINE, and using something to modify or gain an advantage in the game.

Put down your reactionary pitchforks, please. This is not 2006.
I'm putting my bets that Blizzard didn't ban them for using Wine. I find it more likely they were doing something like botting, got caught, and decided to claim they were wrongly banned based on the circumstantial fact they were all using wine.

Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will.


Reading comprehension, absent.

Way to skip over the hard facts directly to the blue post, then suckle the teet of corporate governance.
If you're going to post nonsensical insults, try including context.
90 Tauren Shaman
4875


So you are accusing this person of cheating. Are you sure you have the facts? Are you so sure of your programmers and testers did not fail (You know they have failed do you not?)?

Yet one more post of yours to report. Sooner or later you will start treating people like customers or I hope you loose your job.


I think the answer to the cheating thing is actually in the OP's emails he posted. It said something about taking previous violations into account. It sounds like a cheater who has been caught multiple times has finally been banned for good and is looking for some sympathy. Since many posters on here are Linux users and are still playing, I'd say a Blizzard rep calling someone out here is probably appropriate.


Maybe the previous violations were other times the Wine client was detected as a cheat. No anti-cheat detection is 100% accurate in it's reporting. It could be something as simple as detecting the game being initialized through another application's process that causes it to happen.
you get what you deserve , lesson learned ..sucked to be you lol.
Blizzard isn't worried about fixing their problems they just want to punish the cheaters...and damn the collateral damage to people actually playing the game.
I find it ridiculous that people trust the word of a couple random users over a Blizzard employee. It is very, very easy, from a technological standpoint to tell the difference between just using WINE, and using something to modify or gain an advantage in the game.

Put down your reactionary pitchforks, please. This is not 2006.


As a guy who'd got an intruder in his account some years back when that account wasn't used for even more years (read, no logins performed) I have to strongly disagree with your blind faith in Blizzard.

Btw, did you hear about heuristic analysis which most likely is used to determine cheating?
That stuff can fail, it will fail eventually, but it's the only way to catch the guys that aren't dumb enough to meddle with the gamefiles/data sent itself.
Reading comprehension, absent.

Way to skip over the hard facts directly to the blue post, then suckle the teet of corporate governance.


Which hard facts? I only see a few (not even 100) out of a small million or so Linux players, exaggeration is an art in this thread. I've seen a ton more people confirming they have played it since early on and not having been been locked out, if there would be larger triggers (hey, everything's based on WINE and there aren't many ways to launch it) then we would hear more of such posts. But no, it's just the same dude twice and then another dude with an obvious name and some not confirm-able ones here and there, really no hard facts there but just some local storm...

Here's how I run it on Linux:

1. Install the game on Windows in VirtualBox to make sure the installation is untampered with.

2. Copy it over to Linux.

3. Run it in either x86 or x64 (The former is better, performance wise; see the setarch advice on WineHQ) and with the right CPU affinity (See WineHQ again).

This way imposes no reverse engineering, no modifications and no monitoring except for some debug messages of the agent (which are actually written on Windows to logs as well) as well as some WINE messages that don't give you any advantage (else the whole million wouldn't be able to play).

So, while it is not technically supported when Diablo 3 blows up your GPU or when the game renders unplayable on your system, you are in your own responsibility of playing it, and are allowed to play it under the same conditions as on Windows. Read over the EULA and ToU and you'll see that there is nothing that excludes playing on Linux, as the Community Manager has confirmed.

There's no need to be afraid, they are pretty aware of the false positives...
Edited by TomWij#2627 on 7/3/2012 6:48 AM PDT
I find this thread hysterical.

I've been a systems administrator for IBM and then Dell for about 8 years total now, and when a distributor tells us "this isn't supported", both of my companies have had no trouble understanding the concept of "well if we do this and something goes wrong they aren't liable in any way since they clearly stated what we're trying to do is unsupported".

When you buy a computer from any company out there, ANY AT ALL, and they designed the system to be "optimized" for Windows 7, and then 4 years later Windows 8 comes out but they dont release drivers for it, thats called UNSUPPORTED.

Same concept here people. All Bashiok and Blizzard are saying is "We told you not to do this and we told you we dont support it, so when something goes wrong with it you're on your own."

Following VERY SIMPLE DIRECTIONS is hard.

Everyone keeps pulling up the technical aspects of this when its a simple yes or no answer. The answer is no, Linux does not have D3 support, meaning if you chose to run it on that OS you get no support when things go wrong. If something WINE or something else running while D3 was being emulated triggered Warden, that's not Blizzards fault. You were still doing something unsupported in the first place.
Edited by Sippycup#1378 on 7/3/2012 6:52 AM PDT
90 Tauren Shaman
4875
07/03/2012 06:33 AMPosted by KayEhn
It is very, very easy, from a technological standpoint to tell the difference between just using WINE, and using something to modify or gain an advantage in the game.


Please enlighten us on how they will be able to tell the difference between using an application that is not supported, on an operating system which is not supported, and a hack.

WHILE (SOMETHING WEIRD IS HAPPENING) {
IF (WINE) BREAK
ELSE IF MUST BE CHEAT?
}


Are they looking at specific process id's for an OS they don't support, which the game is not intended to run on?

Anti-virus applications have wrongly detected some applications as viruses for years, in spite of constant development and updates.
If your that confident that they cheated why not put them on blast on what you 'think' they used.
07/03/2012 06:52 AMPosted by spanthegnome
If your that confident that they cheated why not put them on blast on what you 'think' they used.


And blow their trump card? Are you new to network security? When you find a hole you dont blast it all over the place so other people can exploit it too. You take the issue out of the equation quietly along with everything involved in the breach and you patch it.
85 Tauren Druid
7620

No, it's not "THEIR " game, not unconditionally. They chose to enter into a contract with the people who bought it. That contract has terms. They cannot change these terms single-handedly. If the terms say "account can be banned for cheating" and nothing about "account can be banned for playing using an OS not mentioned on the box", they just breached a contract.


They reserve the right in the eula to terminate your license for any reason at all in section 8 of the d3 eula.


Termination.
This License Agreement is effective until terminated. You may terminate this License Agreement at any time by providing notice to Blizzard customer service via email at support@blizzard.com, at which time Blizzard will remove your license to use the Game from the Account. Blizzard may terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason or no reason. Upon termination, all licenses granted herein shall immediately terminate and you must promptly remove the Game from your hard drive.


http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/d3_eula.html

Additionally, the battle.net terms of use has similar language in section 7.


ACCOUNT SUSPENSION/CANCELATION.
BLIZZARD MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ACCOUNTS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Blizzard for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these TOU, a Game-specific Terms of Use, or a Game EULA will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of these TOU, a Game-specific Terms of Use, a Game EULA or other Blizzard policy. You may cancel the Account registered to you at any time by requesting that your personal information be removed from the Account, as specified in Blizzard’s Privacy Policy. Blizzard may stop offering and/or supporting the Service at any time.


http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html
This has absolutely nothing to do with 'network security' and you know it. This is a matter of person security. This kid could very well just have something unknown to him running and it could actually help him uncompromising his system.
The EULA is hardly binding.
90 Worgen Death Knight
6000
So... while I can agree that an account ban right off seems harsh... maybe do a suspension until it can be proven that you were not cheating or until you can prove that you have switched to the "required and supported os".

I find it moronic that people want to argue that what they should be allowed to play it on. Hey I should be able to play it on my phone ... from work... using 3g... what do you mean it was not designed to do that?
Just because they there is not an explicit statement saying And you may not use Linux/Wine.. does not mean that it is not implied by the stated requirements listed. Example - You do not think it is permissible to begin !@#$%^-*!ing in your friends living room or say a country club (I am using private locations to establish that some may say that the law regards indecent exposure in public) but you already understand by implication that it would most likely be looked upon unfavorably and perhaps get you banned.

Do not try to play dumb about using a known 3rd party os and software that are not listed requirements.
This is most likely in place because they have anti-cheats in place that were designed to monitor certain systems. This is important in D3 over WoW and SC2 in the fact that REAL MONEY implications are involved. WoW and SC2 do not have real currency transactions taking place so even if someone were hacking/cheating the most they get is to thump their chest in regards to how uber they seem.. while of course irl they understand they have to cheat to stay ahead. In D3 however... cheating could and would result in monetary fraud.. which is ILLEGAL and Blizzard/Activision would be held responsible under the grounds that this is their property.
Just setup an askance that reparation be made to those that have been banned with regards to the user either installing and using the requirements stated by the company.

Or.. if you want to continue with the stance of it does not say I can not and this is not fair... then maybe you should start using that idealism to ask why you want to use a open source OS and free software to then be able to make money using RMAH... which might be considered fraudulent on some level as you are using something that is given out freely to be used freely... to make money... so there is no work : compensation ratio.. there is no disability reason you would be able to do this... you are profiting from others with little to no risk to yourself.

Personally I would be find if they did away with the RMAH and maybe even the AH as then they would probably allow Linux/Wine... but then they also probably would not be worrying as much about hackers/botters and D3 becomes D2 with better graphics...
Please enlighten us on how they will be able to tell the difference between using an application that is not supported, on an operating system which is not supported, and a hack.

WHILE (SOMETHING WEIRD IS HAPPENING) {
IF (WINE) BREAK
ELSE IF MUST BE CHEAT?
}


They would write SOMETHING WEIRD IS HAPPENING in such way that it does not impose an additional branch for WINE, because that's the whole point about not catching false positives. You don't want to be excluding Virus Scanners, DEP, ASLR, memory and driver issues and the like; but rather all the obvious attempts which are guaranteed to be more positive.

False positives can of course in some cases still happen, which has happened back with WoW. Note how the same (or improved) Warden is used here, so that false positive has been ironed out a long time ago...
Edited by TomWij#2627 on 7/3/2012 7:01 AM PDT
85 Tauren Druid
7620

So you are accusing this person of cheating. Are you sure you have the facts? Are you so sure of your programmers and testers did not fail (You know they have failed do you not?)?

Yet one more post of yours to report. Sooner or later you will start treating people like customers or I hope you loose your job.


So data returned by warden indicates some users (which may or may not be running wine) are cheating. They claim they are not (which I assume is a fairly common claim). They further claim they are banned because they run wine.

Blizzard tries to reproduce their claim, and is unable to do so.

Do they believe the user(s) and just assume nobody who runs linux would ever cheat or do they continue to try to reproduce it, and let the bans stand unless they can? It seems to me that #2 is a valid approach to take, and indeed more valid than the first approach.

I don't think anyone is really saying it's inpossible for there to be a false positive in warden, but more that if blizzard is unable to reproduce it, then the evidence they have is likely to stand. If you believe it's a false positive and you have been misindentified as a cheater, then it's in your best interest to try to narrow it down so they can reproduce the problem.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7700
I have no idea who to believe but looking at the amount of people using a commercial bot who have been botting since day 1 and have yet to be banned, I highly doubt Warden's capability.
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