Diablo® III

Banning Linux Users For Using Linux...Really?

85 Tauren Druid
7620
Posts: 25,645

And for those who keep using the word 'emulator', I don't think you know what that word means. Wine itself is an acronym for Wine Is Not an Emulator - And indeed it's not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer. It provides Windows applications with translated system calls, rather than attempting to emulate a full Windows environment.


Emulator has different meanings depending on context. In the context of computers, it often means instruction set emulation (which wine obviously doesn't do). In some other contexts (for example, printer emulators) it is a lot more broad, and means implementing support for some proprietary control language (hp-gl or pcl for example, when your printer natively speaks postscript).

Wine is an implementation of microsoft defined apis. In some contexts, this can mean emulation, in other contexts it does not. The term emulation is itself a very general term.
85 Tauren Druid
7620
Posts: 25,645

They reversed that though and unbanned those users.


Sure, after quite a while. There's no saying they won't do the same this time, either. My point was that this is a problem blizzard has had before long before activision was anywhere near them.

They've not given any indication there is an explicit policy shift in this area, which kind of leaves the 'its to stop cheaters' crowd a little weak in terms of actual data. No, wine is not supported now, nor was it at any other time in the past. Blizzard can positively identify wine, so there's no need to ban -- they can just prevent you from playing.
50 Gnome Warrior
1115
Posts: 673
BUMP FOR BLUE
07/02/2012 07:28 PMPosted by Jarrex


I disagree.

http://slashdot.org/story/06/11/15/1652222/linux-users-banned-from-world-of-warcraft

Seems like the exact same company they used to be.


They reversed that though and unbanned those users.


And it took quite a while for them to do that. This issue has only just come up, how do you know it won't happen here too?

But really, the fact of the matter is you're using the game in an unintended way and the consequences are your own...

It's not Blizzard's fault their software detects software that is third party software and that isn't supported as being unsupported third party software. It's up to the people to redesign the environment to make it so the game doesn't recognize it that way.

That's the POINT of using Linux, youi have control - not the companies. You don't use linux because you want an organization to do all your work for you, you use it to get away from Microsoft and Apple and put your own stamp on your computer.

Well, when software isn't working properly... you're being an idiot if you ask the developer to fix it for you - there's no reason for them to care. You should work, with your little linux friends, to find a solution.

That's what Linux is about, isn't it?
I am going to come clean... I am running Windows 8 developer preview/consumer preview... I guess I am going to be next to be banned...

I sympathize with the Linux users... banning them is akin to banning Windows users using an "unauthorized" graphics card driver... (eg ATI/Nvidia releases a Beta driver that gives 30% more FPS across the board... and you get banned for using that...)

W.I.N.E Is Not an Emulator (it's stated so in their Backronym)... Wine just provides the library files needed to run a windows application.

I really can't wait until the day where they start banning Windows users who are behind in their security update patches.....
Edited by martianz#1304 on 7/2/2012 7:39 PM PDT
85 Tauren Druid
7620
Posts: 25,645

I didn't really read through the entire license agreement but if someone feels like pointing out where it says players may be banned for using unsupported operating systems, feel free to give me that quotation.


It doesn't need to explicitly say it, since they have language like:


Blizzard may terminate this Agreement at any time for any reason or no reason. Upon termination, all licenses granted herein shall immediately terminate and you must promptly remove the Game from your hard drive.


There's really no doubt that blizzard can ban wine users. I simply feel if it was an intentional policy change, they'd make that known.
Posts: 1,727

And for those who keep using the word 'emulator', I don't think you know what that word means. Wine itself is an acronym for Wine Is Not an Emulator - And indeed it's not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer. It provides Windows applications with translated system calls, rather than attempting to emulate a full Windows environment.


Emulator has different meanings depending on context. In the context of computers, it often means instruction set emulation (which wine obviously doesn't do). In some other contexts (for example, printer emulators) it is a lot more broad, and means implementing support for some proprietary control language (hp-gl or pcl for example, when your printer natively speaks postscript).

Wine is an implementation of microsoft defined apis. In some contexts, this can mean emulation, in other contexts it does not. The term emulation is itself a very general term.


While I agree with the differences between contexts. In no context is Wine an emulator. It is an open source implementation of Windows APIs. Calling this an emulator would be akin to calling my car a Ferrari emulator because they both implement the idea of a car.



They reversed that though and unbanned those users.


And it took quite a while for them to do that. This issue has only just come up, how do you know it won't happen here too?

But really, the fact of the matter is you're using the game in an unintended way and the consequences are your own...

It's not Blizzard's fault their software detects software that is third party software and that isn't supported as being unsupported third party software. It's up to the people to redesign the environment to make it so the game doesn't recognize it that way.

That's the POINT of using Linux, youi have control - not the companies. You don't use linux because you want an organization to do all your work for you, you use it to get away from Microsoft and Apple and put your own stamp on your computer.

Well, when software isn't working properly... you're being an idiot if you ask the developer to fix it for you - there's no reason for them to care. You should work, with your little linux friends, to find a solution.

That's what Linux is about, isn't it?


Bold emphasis mine. Unsupported and not permissible are rather different concepts, agreed?

I am going to come clean... I am running Windows 8 developer preview/consumer preview... I guess I am going to be next to be banned...

I sympathize with the Linux users... banning them is akin to banning Windows users using an "unauthorized" graphics card driver... (eg ATI/Nvidia releases a Beta driver that gives 30% more FPS across the board... and you get banned for using that...)

W.I.N.E Is Not an Emulator (it's stated so in their Backronym)... Wine just provides the library files needed to run a windows application.


It's not the same as that at all actually. Why? Because there's no explicit 'requirement' for which drivers you have to use. There IS an explicit requirement for operating system stated on the box.


No. Those are merely the supported options. Again, unsupported vs not permissible.
Edited by Candlejack#1747 on 7/2/2012 7:44 PM PDT
I am going to come clean... I am running Windows 8 developer preview/consumer preview... I guess I am going to be next to be banned...

I sympathize with the Linux users... banning them is akin to banning Windows users using an "unauthorized" graphics card driver... (eg ATI/Nvidia releases a Beta driver that gives 30% more FPS across the board... and you get banned for using that...)

W.I.N.E Is Not an Emulator (it's stated so in their Backronym)... Wine just provides the library files needed to run a windows application.


It's not the same as that at all actually. Why? Because there's no explicit 'requirement' for which drivers you have to use. There IS an explicit requirement for operating system stated on the box.
Posts: 1,395


They reversed that though and unbanned those users.


And it took quite a while for them to do that. This issue has only just come up, how do you know it won't happen here too?

But really, the fact of the matter is you're using the game in an unintended way and the consequences are your own...

It's not Blizzard's fault their software detects software that is third party software and that isn't supported as being unsupported third party software. It's up to the people to redesign the environment to make it so the game doesn't recognize it that way.

That's the POINT of using Linux, youi have control - not the companies. You don't use linux because you want an organization to do all your work for you, you use it to get away from Microsoft and Apple and put your own stamp on your computer.

Well, when software isn't working properly... you're being an idiot if you ask the developer to fix it for you - there's no reason for them to care. You should work, with your little linux friends, to find a solution.

That's what Linux is about, isn't it?


The issue is company-side though, if Warden in D3 (it doesn't pick it up in SC2 and no longer in WoW) detects Wine as a "cheat" you can't circumvent that.
Posts: 1,395
I am going to come clean... I am running Windows 8 developer preview/consumer preview... I guess I am going to be next to be banned...

I sympathize with the Linux users... banning them is akin to banning Windows users using an "unauthorized" graphics card driver... (eg ATI/Nvidia releases a Beta driver that gives 30% more FPS across the board... and you get banned for using that...)

W.I.N.E Is Not an Emulator (it's stated so in their Backronym)... Wine just provides the library files needed to run a windows application.

I really can't wait until the day where they start banning Windows users who are behind in their security update patches.....


I'm using the release preview, you'll be fine. Haven't been banned yet.
Posts: 50
Earlier on, us Linux WINE users started getting kicked from servers because of this Warden bug. I expected to get banned shortly after but apparently they were probably testing Warden before making it auto ban you.

It was found out if you use setarch to run wine with a 32bit address space, this kicking never happened again. I've played the game for weeks without issue afterwards, and I'm not banned. I've quit for other reasons however.

Warden obviously has issues with wine exposing the 64bit address space.

setarch i386 -3 wine ...

If you can get blizzard to unban you, make SURE you setarch your wine process!
Edited by Spike#1118 on 7/2/2012 7:44 PM PDT
I am going to come clean... I am running Windows 8 developer preview/consumer preview... I guess I am going to be next to be banned...

I sympathize with the Linux users... banning them is akin to banning Windows users using an "unauthorized" graphics card driver... (eg ATI/Nvidia releases a Beta driver that gives 30% more FPS across the board... and you get banned for using that...)

W.I.N.E Is Not an Emulator (it's stated so in their Backronym)... Wine just provides the library files needed to run a windows application.


It's not the same as that at all actually. Why? Because there's no explicit 'requirement' for which drivers you have to use. There IS an explicit requirement for operating system stated on the box.


That's the thing.. drivers are third party apps (they translate the DirectX/(or is it openGL? never really dissected the diablo codes..) API calls to hardware calls) just like WiNE.. in the truest meaning of the ToU.. they can ban you for not using an "authorized" driver...
Blizzard is always watching.

You there in that chair. Put down that soda!


And it took quite a while for them to do that. This issue has only just come up, how do you know it won't happen here too?

But really, the fact of the matter is you're using the game in an unintended way and the consequences are your own...

It's not Blizzard's fault their software detects software that is third party software and that isn't supported as being unsupported third party software. It's up to the people to redesign the environment to make it so the game doesn't recognize it that way.

That's the POINT of using Linux, youi have control - not the companies. You don't use linux because you want an organization to do all your work for you, you use it to get away from Microsoft and Apple and put your own stamp on your computer.

Well, when software isn't working properly... you're being an idiot if you ask the developer to fix it for you - there's no reason for them to care. You should work, with your little linux friends, to find a solution.

That's what Linux is about, isn't it?


The issue is company-side though, if Warden in D3 (it doesn't pick it up in SC2 and no longer in WoW) detects Wine as a "cheat" you can't circumvent that.


It's not though. Wine is, in the truest sense of the word, an unsupported third party application. You are not allowed to use ANY third party applications that alter the way Diablo 3 works. Whereas you ARE allowed to use certain ones in WoW and SC2 provided they aren't actually providing you an advantage or playing the game for you. That's the difference between WoW and D3. It's up to you guys to make the software run in a way that isn't detected in this fashion - since it IS unsupported there is NO obligation on them to alter the way their side functions to make it work. That is the very DEFINITION of 'support'.
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/d3_eula.html

This here is the Diablo 3 EULA.

1 - CTRL-F
2 - Linux
3 - Press Enter

Notice the lack of any mention of the word Linux. Interesting.
07/02/2012 01:57 PMPosted by Chili
So linux is not supported, you go ahead and play using linux, you get banned, you act surprised?


I believe this guy just wanted to see how many responses he could get.... heh. I don't believe anyone should be revoked of their rights to a 60 dollar purchase because they attempted to play on unsupported gear.

So if you bought a liter of cola from KFC and used an incorrect drinking utensil... would you expect the manager to come out and remove your beverage from your possession? Hmmm....

~ Prex
Posts: 166
absurd.
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