Diablo® III

End game solutions?

07/03/2012 03:53 PMPosted by CyberGoat
Because players DEMANDED an earlier release date.


If anything, the period since release should tell you exactly what Blizzard thinks of players DEMANDS....

This game has been in development for, at the least 6 years...

It took less time to develop D2 and its expansion.
90 Undead Warlock
10955
Posts: 480
Ok, here's an idea for for more content and make things easier for devs, add "flashback" fights, let us fight Mephisto, Baal and all the other lords of hell from diablo I and II. the fights must be harder than Diablo Inferno and they must have new powers and phases (Please add more fights like Belial's third phase!)
Posts: 57
The game needs two things minimum.

1) A no-AH character option when you create new characters like hardcore. No AH, increased drop rates for legendary/set/plans etc.

2) Some sort of dungeon that is X levels that starts easy and gets hard. Rewards for going deeper. Mini-levelups for certain levels reached. Better chances for better loot at bottom. Mini-levelups could give small insignificant bonuses. Levels could be simply made of what stuff is in that act. For Act it could levels could be a mix of cathedral, crypts, fields, etc. At X level a random boss from teh act could appear.
Posts: 12,592
07/03/2012 03:54 PMPosted by Khaelin
This wasn't the case in D2. Most people who played that game spent years item hunting. Main difference? Having an AH in D3 coupled with the extreme lack of awesome legendary and set items. Why should I spend my time hunting for better gear when I can just purchase it off an AH with either gold or money? Why should I spend my time hunting for legendary items when they are vastly inferior to yellows?
Wrong. I'll dissect:

This wasn't the case in D2. Most people who played that game spent years item hunting.
And they'll spend that time doing so in D3 as well.

This wasn't the case in D2. Having an AH in D3 <is bad>. Why should I spend my time hunting for better gear when I can just purchase it off an AH with either gold or money?
Wrong. If I wanted an item in D2, I simply traded for it. The AH does for trading what a website did for D2. Now it's just centralized and owned by Blizzard. I could pay gold or money for items in D2, I just had risk. Now I don't since it's managed by Blizzard.

Why should I spend my time hunting for legendary items when they are vastly inferior to yellows?
Look at the ilvl of every Legendary and Set items. See any ilvl 63's? Do ya? Now look at ilvl of what people are wanting for yellows. Yup, they're ilvl 63's. That's part of the reason why Legendary items are inferior. The other issue is that they can't double-up on affixes. So if a Legendary has an auto-mod of 20% damage, it CAN'T spawn the vastly superior +80% damage.
I have an idea...

Take the game offline, spend a year, two years...and FIX IT!

I will wait patiently..
30 Undead Priest
210
Posts: 1,677
Thank you for the honest straightforward truth!
I played this game nonstop for the first month, and in the last 2 weeks I've played once. It's impossible to ignore the frustration of the community over lack of "endgame". The first two ideas came from high profile players (Kripp and Athene).

First, selling only gold in the RMAH does a lot to for players not willing to turn a game into a real life monetary struggle. Players that wish to spend real money will still buy gold, then turn that into items, as their money is worth less than their time. It's a slight inconvenience to buy gold first then spend gold, but at least ALL the items are in the same AH and that will increase your chance to quickly find the best weapon available. This will force the real money prices up slightly since it will inflated with the gold, more so than the current system where real money holds value insanely better than gold. Think about it, as botters sell gold cheaper and cheaper, buying items with legit gold will become less and less viable, people will realize the majority of the better gear (in a 150% gear based game) will be pay to win (either by buying gold or using RMAH), this turns a lot of "gamers" off. This is good for blizzard mainly because as gold inflates through the roof (as intended I'm sure), people buying gold wont be capped at 250$ per item.

Second, there is a need for end game. A ladder system would increase playability after 60. Hopefully 2, a pvp ladder and a normal ladder. Think about it, this game shipped with no ladders, a ghost town social interface, and no pvp, I can't imagine anybody at blizzard didn't see the mass quitting/QQing situation that were in right now. Currently the only endgame is NV, which is sad. You hit Lv60, and just for example say you bought the best gear in RMAH, what good is NV, what is there to do in the game?

One thing I can think of would be another mode after inferno is beaten which would be either small NEW dungeon runs or NEW boss runs based off existing or new content. It would be ideal if you had to earn each of the new dungeons by beating the previous or having another leveling system for unlocking new missions.( Think CoD special ops) The new dungeons could even be made with terrain/mobs in the game currently just using some creativity. Imagine if the community could make these dungeons, then sell it on RMAH? Look what the map editor did for wc3? Things like environmental variables traps, usefull terrain, and items that only drop in said dungeon runs would increase the viability and give the player something to work towards after Lv 60. To get to inferno you have to basically beat the story 4 times, after a few chars you really don't wanna see the same story anymore. Cleverly made dungeons, especially ones with new terrain/mobs would increase the replay value. Having some kind of stats for the new mode would help too. You could even do some in a survival sense, sort of like jar of souls, except the mobs never stop. It would be like CoD zombies in a way, an unbeatable mission, where people could be ranked based off how long they lasted in a never ending mission. Can you imagine the replay value for an unbeatable dungeon where you were ranked based off time survived, I sure can.

Another idea for a post inferno mode would be a mode where you had a % to lose gear on death, almost a medium core mode. You could offset it by increasing the MF on NV or letting it stack 10+ times for 1 hour or just a constant MF buff that would increase as you progressed.

After inferno you could make a naked mode difficulty, where mobs dmg/hp would be based off being naked of gear. This would interesting to see how people stack up without having a huge gear edge, which in reality makes the non pvp game less fun. You can watch Athene killing every boss without looking at the screen, how is that rewarding, how does that require any skill? What fun is facerolling through mobs? The game is way too item based (touched on by Kripp) buffing hero stats and nerfing weapons makes sense. Also naked mode post inferno AND naked PvP will really give player bragging rights, as to win requires skill and not gear which can be purchased for real money, which gives even a 3 legged cat an advantage over a "good player". Beating the naked mode could give rewards like extra stats when completed, again giving players endgame.

Not sure if this will fix anything, but it should be implement. You should have the ability to custom fit gear, renaming it, and possibly adding something, like a socket for the cost of crafting material relevant to the gear your upgrading. (customizing iLv63 gear would require inferno materials) I don't see how this ruins anything because currently, not even 2 months after release, there is an ABUNDANCE of gear.(check the AH?) Also a player would have the option of customizing his gear, just like they have the option to salvage it. Small upgrades to weapons is what people want from the blacksmith, not the current "gold sink" that he is. Also the ability to name your gear would really go a long way in giving people character identity since currently there is no differences between to lv60 heroes since they can respec everything and potentially have virtually the same items. Perhaps an option to permanently set items into your slots, giving you some sort of extra buff, again giving heros some form of identity, and a reason to re-roll a hero. For example set a weapon permanently to your hand and you'll get +5% dmg and perhaps a bonus element applied/added to all attacks (even if the attacks do elemental dmg already). Maybe setting boots will give you +10% Movespeed? This idea may just piss people off but, again it adds endgame and replay value.

You could implement an entire new class of weapons. I'd like to see hot pink text for them, orange is almost hard to see sometimes. The new gear would be basically temporary. The gear would vanish or lose stats over time, but be SLIGHTLY better than all the gear in the game. These items could be heavenly/hellish/ancient/possessed items that either had better roll chances, or unique stats. This would be somewhat complicated to implement but give the endgame options, like reacquiring one of these items.

I think the best thing to combat botting is to limit the amount of gold transferred by IP and account. Also implementing a NV for gold, mandatory from lv1. The idea would be simple, you'd have to kill a certain amount of mobs per min/hour to get current 100% gold drops. If you just broke pots you'd get like 5% of the normal gold drops, basically destroying current botting trends. This would be somewhat unnoticeable to normal players but would almost destroy gold farming bots, until they're remade to adapt.
07/03/2012 04:04 PMPosted by CyberGoat
If I wanted an item in D2


Very important..
You wanted...

The game gave you what you needed in order to complete it..

Everything after that, was want, you chose to continue playing.


I'd pay too.


You probably already have at the RMAH.


Very true... Blizz are effectively getting monthly sub income disguised as RMAH... I'd rather they just ditched the RMAH and charged a monthly sub... at least we'd have regular content updates too look forward to without having to buy xpacs...
Blizzard I think it would be wise to never have a Blizzcon again. You really did not think about end game? When the game kinda does end. really?

Think your egos got the best of you guys. I know it's your game, and your company. But never spit on your fan base.
100 Human Warrior
18590
Posts: 2,672
07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.

The efficiency of the AH in terms of distributing gear sufficient enough to see all aspects of the game very quickly had a lot to do with this.

The AH has been hurtful to D3 in so many ways ...
Posts: 12,592
If anything, the period since release should tell you exactly what Blizzard thinks of players DEMANDS....

This game has been in development for, at the least 6 years...

It took less time to develop D2 and its expansion.
Wrong, it's been in development for 3-4 years.

Development time is not equal to time since last release.
90 Troll Hunter
9800
Posts: 908
Uh....
PK.
There's the end-game in the other 2 Diablo games.
I've got an idea. (in reply to Bashiok)

They should put in a feature that is kind of like this.

You reach level 60 and you gain access to a tower, this tower has many, many floors which each have monsters that progressively get harder and contain better loot. Every 5-10 floors, you fight a boss battle (newly created bosses), which harbor phenomenal loot. <-- 61+ ilvl. This mini-game feature shouldn't be in the game world, but accessible through the main-menu. You can solo it or lobby up with players across the world. With your level 60 character.

If you like this idea, like it and have it reconized. Or give constructive criticism if you wish.
Edited by Bdon87#1549 on 7/3/2012 4:09 PM PDT
bashiok tell me if that would be a good idea

bliiz should add some kind of token system you get by beating elite or bosses , add a vendor in wichever act you want and allow player to buy some gear that isnt junk with those token that would make the people want to farm for their token even if they know they will get junk from elite pack n boss .... just like wow tier1 gear , tier 2 gear ... release a new tier gear every 4-6 month so that it keep the players occupied with those an would make some kind of end game farming
Edited by JOHNYTWOTIME#1289 on 7/3/2012 4:10 PM PDT
30 Undead Priest
210
Posts: 1,677
07/03/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Neclord
Ok, here's an idea for for more content and make things easier for devs, add "flashback" fights, let us fight Mephisto, Baal and all the other lords of hell from diablo I and II. the fights must be harder than Diablo Inferno and they must have new powers and phases (Please add more fights like Belial's third phase!)


Belial was one of the coolest most mechanically engaging bosses ive seen in a long time completely agree here, for this genre at least.

Note : I am talking pre-patch here when i beat him, not post. At least for this genre of games
Edited by Osirisis#1959 on 7/3/2012 4:29 PM PDT
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