Diablo® III

End game solutions?

07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


Oh wow you responded to my post, wasn't expecting that. Sorry I wanted to edit in that I wasn't trying to be overly negative and am truly thankful for really any posts we can get that give us insight into what goes on behind the scenes.
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.


What about making the loot itself more desirable? Is this in the future patches?

I think gamers want to look forward to better loot affixes then crit chance and crit damage. How about items that transform you, or better animations with certain changes?

I think making items more fun in itself will help the end game tremendously.
Edited by Intrepidus#1362 on 7/3/2012 1:07 PM PDT
Community Manager
07/03/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Therai
There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot


Can you quantify 'tons' of people playing?

I mean if you are counting the US player base that might mean 7 players if we are using weight ratios here ...


Haha... oh wait, that's mean! I don't know that I'm allowed to release specific concurrency numbers, but we have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands playing every night. Comparing to just normal drop-off post release of a WoW expansion, Diablo III has been very solid, and it's not even out in China yet.
07/03/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Bashiok
We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.


Bring back the Talisman (that Charm-holder from early development) and tie the slot unlocks in it to exp gain at 60.

This solves all of your problems. I wrote a post about how I would do this, which I'm sure you can see in my history if you're so inclined.
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.


Could have fooled me, I thought Diablo 3 was World of Warcraft 2!!!

So what was it that made us play Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 for as long as we did (pre WoW days)?
07/03/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Bashiok
But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now


Bash,

Most of the lacking areas should have never been lacking to begin with. These are blatant design flaws. Recognizing the item hunt was just not fun enough a month or two after release is pathetic. That should have been identified and tackled in a weeks work of internal testing at most. This game was released with systems that need so much more to them its a joke.

I understand things are being worked on. But this response is very discouraging for a diablo fan such as myself. Basically, since this game isnt a monthly sub we aren't devoting very many resources at all in fixing it.

Hopefully the expansion will help this game out because I have only seen post's from blues that continuously confirm this game is going to stay mediocre. From a die hard diablo fan, 3 copies, 2 CE, I wont be sticking around or buying into the expansion. Far too many options out there and Diablo 3 just does not hold a candle to any of them.
Edited by Menacetech#1216 on 7/6/2012 10:42 AM PDT
07/03/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Mensalidin
Then why did you release the game?


There would be far more complaining had they not released the game until yet.
As of now, endgame is all about farming. This is quite boring because no new contents can be played.

What about creating seasonal dungeons (like the seasonal races in Gran Turismo 5, which are not very difficult for Polyphony Digital to generate) that would change every week ? Of the main benefits would be guaranteed good item drops (in terms of stats).

This would add depth to Diablo III and would retain players weeks after weeks.
07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


Your honesty is very comforting.
I really hope this isn't breaking any rules for a "shameless" plug of my own thread, but on the topic of possible endgame solutions:
Endless Dungeon: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6019721986#3
07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


Thank you for this honest and pure answer, and for the one before, Bash.

Now it's made completely clear that Diablo was nothing but a time-waste product for WoW players so when they get bored of D3 they'll see their WoW pass is done and will pay to renew it.

Perfect strategy.
- Diablo III (Monk)
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I think a properly executed "bottomless dungeon" Would go a long way to providing end game players with something to do. It also ensures that the gear hunt never ends because there is always "progression" so to speak. Getting better gear = hitting lvl 120 in the bottomless dungeon instead of 119.


This.
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.


good.
07/03/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Bashiok


Can you quantify 'tons' of people playing?

I mean if you are counting the US player base that might mean 7 players if we are using weight ratios here ...


Haha... oh wait, that's mean! I don't know that I'm allowed to release specific concurrency numbers, but we have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands playing every night. Comparing to just normal drop-off post release of a WoW expansion, Diablo III has been very solid, and it's not even out in China yet.


I'll chime in saying I've "beaten" all of inferno (pony land, killed diablo without skipping packs etc...) I'm still playing every night, still farming. Though I am getting bored of it, and starting to go back to SC2 after about a 3+ month hiatus. I do wish my MMR would've been reset though :(
07/03/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Bashiok


Can you quantify 'tons' of people playing?

I mean if you are counting the US player base that might mean 7 players if we are using weight ratios here ...


Haha... oh wait, that's mean! I don't know that I'm allowed to release specific concurrency numbers, but we have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands playing every night. Comparing to just normal drop-off post release of a WoW expansion, Diablo III has been very solid, and it's not even out in China yet.


My friend in China already got the game... so he's illegal?
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