Diablo® III

End game solutions?

Me likey. I think they should make new ways of pvp after the initial pvp patch. Someone at Blizz gets a good idea, show it to others, start making it and stick it into the game. It would be stupid to only have an arena and a duel option for pvp. MOAR OPTIONZZZ
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this candid response. It's like I can let go of the game in peace now, and stop waiting for that magical fix that's just around the corner.

I'm guessing you guys are having a lot of hindsight visions lately, because there's so many problems with the game that's been clear to me from very early on. Knowing you see it too, and admit you really can't do much about it is cathartic, really.

I feel like the army of undead at the end of The Return of the King when they say "release us." You just released me, Bashiok.

You guys nailed the 0-60 process, so thank you for that.
I liked the idea of a dungeon that you could access after beating Inferno Diablo. The dungeon would have no end. It would just be a constant increase in difficulty until you run out of lives. I'm talking about a "stock" of lives kinda like in Super Smash Bros when you play stock :P Maybe start with 3 or so and ever 10 levels you earn another life. At the end of every level you can earn a free gear repair or extra 5% MF or something similar to that?

I assume level 1 would start at act 1 inferno difficulty and then just go up from there. Each level can be themed randomly from all 4 acts. Of course this will all be randomly done so level 1 might have act 4 demons but they will be easily delt with. Lets say you make it to level 5 and it randomizes zombies from act 1 that just wreck your world. That would be cool.
86 Night Elf Druid
12865
07/03/2012 01:23 PMPosted by Khristophoro
Why can't you add content just because this isn't a subscription game? You've got the RMAH. Consider added content an investment for the RMAH. The more stuff you give us to do, the more revenue D3 will generate.


Exactly. Even is it is a negative NPV. We want moar
07/03/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Fives
stop waiting for that magical fix that's just around the corner.


Strangely did the opposite for me. I was beginning to think nothing would ever come and was beginning to think I should just quit my hardcore inferno progression, but knowing that something will come eventually makes me want to be ready for it.
07/03/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Burnkrant
Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


Ok, Ok Kudos for that, I guess that's the closest thing to a "We made a mistake and apologize" that we are probably going to get so.... what are you thinking about doing to fix this?


Yeah, and every tom **%! and harry was screaming it at them throughout the beta and before it felt like (and that was with people not really discovering yet that the rares and legendaries were disasters and that there was no feasible way to find good items except the auction house.
To answer the OP without fluff, there are none currently.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this candid response. It's like I can let go of the game in peace now, and stop waiting for that magical fix that's just around the corner.

I'm guessing you guys are having a lot of hindsight visions lately, because there's so many problems with the game that's been clear to me from very early on. Knowing you see it too, and admit you really can't do much about it is cathartic, really.

I feel like the army of undead at the end of The Return of the King when they say "release us." You just released me, Bashiok.

You guys nailed the 0-60 process, so thank you for that.


I feel the exact same way.

Now I can Embrace PoE without looking back at D3 again waiting for that magical fix.
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


The "item hunt" would be more engaging if the gear that dropped was actually interesting and unique.

The itemization system on gear is very linear and myopic with essentially one "correct" roll for classes.

I play a barbarian. What I want on gear is this:

Str, Vit, Res All, Crit Chance, Crit damage, IAS

Why did you make other "primary stats" so pointless? When I get a piece with Int/Dex on it, all I think to myself is "worthless vendor junk".

Why not make Dex increase my crit chance? It makes sense and would add more possibilities to gear choices.

Why not make Int increase my total fury or fury generation? Again, it would add more depth to gear choices.

Heck, how about with non-str users, allow strength on items to increase movement speed? That would be fun and make sense as well from a logic standpoint.

I understand you would have to tune the stats to act a bit differently depending on the class (can't have barbarians running around with 500% movement speed), but this would add SO MUCH depth to the gear choices.

Currently, with the automatic skill points upon leveling, I get some dexterity each level. All dexterity does is increase my dodge. It literally works AGAINST me as my primary "staying power" comes from Revenge with Provocation Rune which triggers on getting HIT. So every level, I gain stat points (outside of my control), which actually work AGAINST me and my chosen build.

See how this is frustrating?

See how giving people the ability to actually CHOOSE how to build their character can have benefits.

Yes, I know in D2, the majority of players build their character with more or less the same point distribution. But so what? They could CHOOSE to do something else if they wanted to...and that's really all that matters. Forcing everyone to be exactly the same, like in Diablo 3, isn't "better".
Edited by Requiem#1943 on 7/3/2012 1:30 PM PDT
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


Would have lasted a lot longer but you left corpse banner hopping in the game (after it was well known in beta and the tryhard teams were already planning on abusing it ???) and made abilities that allow players to ignore having good gear like smoke screen and force armor.

I dunno I just wanted to point that stuff out even though what's done is done. sigh.
Edited by Khristophoro#1862 on 7/3/2012 1:29 PM PDT
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.


Remove the level cap. That is the end game solution. There needs to be some kind of character progression beyond 60, and beyond inferno.

I offered a suggestion in the big "constructive criticism" thread, but I think it got over looked.

Set up skills so that after level 60, we can level up the runes. Each rune could have 5 levels or so, with a 1% bonus to the rune after each level up. It should take a very long time between each level. Lets say 50 hours or so to level an average skill up one level. with all the runes for each character this would create and enormous amount of character progression and "end game" content.

The side bonus of this idea is that it wont affect any current players negatively. It will not interfere with increases in level cap with future expansions (increase rune level caps as well with those expansions), and perhaps the biggest benefit, is it will encourage people to try skills they have never used, just so they can have them all fully leveled up.

Please reply to this if you have read it Bashiok, I would to hear your thoughts.
Edited by kweagle#1932 on 7/3/2012 1:30 PM PDT
As much as I was jelly about Kripp, I sat through his video and walked away pissed. I installed D2 in July 2000, played it as my only game until 2006, and he nailed what it was that kept me coming back...

The 99 chase. Which opened up the min/max chase so I ended up Magic Finding all the time. Gave rise to dueling. Which opened up the Ladder chase. Which opened up dueling in an arms race environment. Which opened up dueling in Hardcore mode. Eventually doing Ubers in Hardcore mode. Do any of the last, that's endgame. Take down someone with no looter, that's fun stuff.

I don't think Arenas are going to cut it, especially when all of my friends aren't even playing anymore. Dueling has to be a part of the game. People want to beat the crap out of their friends and gloat.

Now I know Rift is an MMO, but the leveling beyond 60 idea he had was the same thing. Minor stats while you are out doing something else. You build a slightly stronger character and it takes a ton of time - JUST LIKE the climb to 99. The reward in D2 was lots of crap gear dropping but at least you knew your character was getting some XP.

D3's solution was awful. Gear up so you can show off to your friends. There's no public chat avatars, no real public gaming going on in Inferno like we had in D2 Hell Cows/Baals, so what's the point? I was on board with 1.03, until I noticed my Real ID list was 2 out of 26 friends online last night, and the 2 that were on were afk all evening anyhow. Fun game!
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.


Nice post, thanks for the info.

Adding NV stacks for leveling alts would also be an easy addition. WoW success was not only about end game, but the success it had with leveling many alts. Anything you can do to encourage alts will also help the game long term IMO.

You also may want to consider legendary heirlooms.
Edited by kn0wing#1392 on 7/3/2012 1:32 PM PDT


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


The "item hunt" would be more engaging if the gear that dropped was actually interesting and unique.

The itemization system on gear is very linear and myopic with essentially one "correct" roll for classes.

I play a barbarian. What I want on gear is this:

Str, Vit, Res All, Crit Chance, Crit damage, IAS

Why did you make other "primary stats" so pointless? When I get a piece with Int/Dex on it, all I think to myself is "worthless vendor junk".

Why not make Dex increase my crit chance? It makes sense and would add more possibilities to gear choices.

Why not make Int increase my total fury or fury generation? Again, it would add more depth to gear choices.

Currently, with the automatic skill points upon leveling, I get some dexterity each level. All dexterity does is increase my dodge. It literally works AGAINST me as my primary "staying power" comes from Revenge with Provocation Rune which triggers on getting HIT. So every level, I gain stat points (outside of my control), which actually work AGAINST me and my chosen build.

See how this is frustrating?

See how giving people the ability to actually CHOOSE how to build their character can have benefits.

Yes, I know in D2, the majority of players build their character with more or less the same point distribution. But so what? They could CHOOSE to do something else if they wanted to...and that's really all that matters. Forcing everyone to be exactly the same, like in Diablo 3, isn't "better".


Well thought out, and a lot of other people have been screaming about it for a while, too bad Blizzard doesn't agree with that very factual assesment of why the game is broken...
Edited by Spincut#1363 on 7/3/2012 1:30 PM PDT
07/03/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Mensalidin
Then why did you release the game?


But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft.

FATALITY

if you bought this game not knowing diablo 2 you're dumb
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