Diablo® III

End game solutions?

Posts: 577
I think an endless dungeon tied to a ladder season would be a perfect endgame. It'd be a big thing to implement.. but would last forever, so long as blizzard just pressed the "reset ladder " button every 6 months.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6019552014#1

for more details on my idea. It's a more comprehensive post
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I don't think Arenas are going to cut it, especially when all of my friends aren't even playing anymore. Dueling has to be a part of the game. People want to beat the crap out of their friends and gloat.


This... So much this.

I know that you guys are afraid that dueling would open up unwanted feedback but you know what? Too bad. We. NEED. stuff to do.
90 Orc Hunter
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Posts: 91
07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


Yeah, sadly all the DH's and Wizards and some WD's that stacked all that IAS and started pumping loot out in the economy that I am guessing was not supposed to enter the market so quickly kind of sped things a long. The auction house didn't help that spread either, if just very heavily contributed to it.

That aside, you can not underestimate your players as a whole, nothing is gated in diablo like you would an MMO, full content is out; people are gonna be getting to the end very quickly. You forget how beloved this franchise is among so many millions. Expecting the masses to be sitting around farming gear for a few months could have been a little bit of over sight, even a few extra dungeons or something that would have been fine for people, but most of the part people don't play is why farm when you have a lingering fear that whatever stat you might be stacking, could possibly be getting the nerf stick. Compounded onto that is that legendaries are just boring and farming really just becomes pointless and only driven by making some money on the RMAH. I would rather go play poker and have much better odds at making money. I am sure you already know these things, most people just want some apologies which it's good you guys have recognized that. Salud.


Haha... oh wait, that's mean! I don't know that I'm allowed to release specific concurrency numbers, but we have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands playing every night. Comparing to just normal drop-off post release of a WoW expansion, Diablo III has been very solid, and it's not even out in China yet.


the specific phrase "hundreds upon hundreds of thousands playing every night. Diablo III has been very solid" made my day... thanks thanks thanks Bash for confirming people in the forums calling the end of gaming as we know it are just morons... nice I hope this game never dies.


I don't know about you dude but if i had sold over 6 million copies but i've only got hundreds and hundreads of thousands of people a month after relase. Well christ i'd be damn worried!

Even more so because that would imply that there are 5 million people who Blizzard can't persuade to even use RMAH.
Edited by QED#2412 on 7/3/2012 1:36 PM PDT
07/03/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Bashiok
There are still tons of people playing every day and week,
More like there are tons of Bots farming gold and items everyday.(Speaking of bots,They have really gotten outta hand in GC again.) And If there are actually people playing its probably because they are bored and have no other solution but to play D3. I'm one of those people.

I would really like to see this game succeed as a fan of the series. But man with all the troubles plaguing it, Who knows? I would love to hear more on your ideas.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this candid response. It's like I can let go of the game in peace now, and stop waiting for that magical fix that's just around the corner.

I'm guessing you guys are having a lot of hindsight visions lately, because there's so many problems with the game that's been clear to me from very early on. Knowing you see it too, and admit you really can't do much about it is cathartic, really.

I feel like the army of undead at the end of The Return of the King when they say "release us." You just released me, Bashiok.

You guys nailed the 0-60 process, so thank you for that.


I feel the exact same way.

Now I can Embrace PoE without looking back at D3 again waiting for that magical fix.


same boat as both of you.
07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thank you very much for this informative and honest answer. Though to be honest what this answer really reveals is "we didn't have a real end game ready or in mind and aren't sure how to retain customers, the game was released before it was quite ready, possibly because of the giant outcry from the fans"


Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.


I think people would be happy if they could actually hunt for gear that are upgrades, spending hundreds of hours to find 1 thing of worth "IS NOT FUN". Leveling/playing alts WOULD keep people engaged much longer, if they think the time + reward is worth it. Right now at 500+ hours played, the Time+reward is crap unless you use the AH to buy ALL YOUR GEAR.

Also the fact that your multi-player game is mostly played solo, shows you right there that there is A LOT of things wrong with this game. I like to solo but would rather play with other people... but as it is right now, the friends I have that play ALL solo and stay in act 1 and 2 because they can't find gear to progress. They also don't have the gold to use the AH, and feel the same way as me, we shouldn't HAVE to use the AH to progress. They lose gold any time we group up, and can't afford to push ahead.

Bottom line is, the item hunt sucks. Something is wrong with your loot system (not the drop rates). I'm talking about the horrible horrible luck when it comes to rolling something of worth. I'm tired of finding items with 5 stats and the stats roll like +armor/+healthglobeheal/socket/+random resist/Ignores durability at ilvl 63. I mean I've id'd around 500+ rares in the past day or 2 and its all sold back to the vendor.

I wonder if it has to do with the fact that a item cannot duplicate? Is the market really flooded so bad that good items have run out? Id REALLY love to know if 2 items can roll the same stats. And if not, that's your problem there.
07/03/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Bashiok
There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.


because you made the game end at 60.

you want to keep people playing? raise the cap to 80. and make it like 50 times harder to level.

very simple. and you can keep doing this over and over without adding any new content. just call the next difficulty inferno 2

inferno 3

inferno 4...

see, you can milk this forever.

the only problem lies in the fact that your item roster is completely lackluster so there's nothing INSPIRING people to continue playing your game, killing more monsters.

i sure wish the diablo 3 developers had actually played diablo 2 before making this game...
Edited by Tonytony#1977 on 7/3/2012 1:36 PM PDT
07/03/2012 01:28 PMPosted by Requiem
Why did you make other "primary stats" so pointless?


Encourage trade between players.

Sadly, I think it had an unintended, but some would argue obvious, side effect- it highly limited build diversity.

You know all those comments from blizzard about how gems would allow you to customize your character? See, they actually made sense under the old 4 stat system. I believe you had Attack, Precision, Defense, Life? Anyways, under that system, you would have had a lot more stats to look for, and decisions would become a lot more meaningful as it would be rare to find a piece with all 4 stats but you would have wanted to get as much of every stat as possible - or maybe not, depending on how you built your character.

With only two stats, and only one "important" survivability stat, resist all, the choices are highly, highly limited.
What I took from those comments.

The people who rushed through the game and started farming inferno has ruined the game in 1 month. The botters/flippers and exploiters have driven the price up to the point that the regular/casual players are stuck with the AH being flooded with (unrealistic prices) 100million dollar items. Which forces people to use the RMAH.

Thats what happens when you dont secure you !@#$ blizzard. Something never change I guess.
93 Draenei Death Knight
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Posts: 238
Part of the problem with Diablo 3's longevity is really the easy to hit level cap and gear-based progress at that point. While item hunting is an important part of Diablo-likes, it's not the only part, which is where Diablo 3 gets it wrong. Even worse the items in the game are just not interesting.

I also feel like the story is also a hindrance to game longevity. It constantly gets in the way of playing to the point of being obnoxious. It needs an auto-skip or free-play mode badly. Never seen a Diablo-like interrupt game play to this extent.

I'm really hoping that you guys, while working on the expansion, go back and take a good hard look at the best Diablo-likes out there (my personal favorite being Phantasy Star Online, where I miss my collection of weapons crafted out of monster parts). Diablo 3 has a lot going for it, but it just needs to recapture of the soul of the genre that it's missing.
What I don't get is that Blizz already knows how to reset gear in Diablo... LADDER PLAY. You get to erase all the "exploited" and or pre-nerf drops from the economy overnight, and the community will THANK you for it. Add to that making the "score" portion of Ladder be your inferno elite killcount and Blizz can get exactly what they seem to want: All of us camping act 1 inferno all day and night forever. ;)
Edited by Shaggy#1317 on 7/3/2012 1:42 PM PDT
Also re things like:

07/03/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Brixtan
But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft.


Perhaps you should remind your developers of this simple fact, because right now it feels like you've taken Diablo down the World of Wordcraft path...


Why not argue against the mechanics by the virtue of themselves instead of whether they are comparable to something from World of Warcraft. Honestly I think it's just some kind of vogue thing, where it's cool to distance yourself and anything associated from "that casualised and dumbed down game" regardless of whatever it may actually be. Just because it is 'from' World of Warcraft doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, like how something that's different from World of Warcraft doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

I'm not saying don't argue against things that you think are bad, but all these largely unnecessary comparisons to WoW are clouding people's messages.
Community Manager
Posts: 3,659


the specific phrase "hundreds upon hundreds of thousands playing every night. Diablo III has been very solid" made my day... thanks thanks thanks Bash for confirming people in the forums calling the end of gaming as we know it are just morons... nice I hope this game never dies.


I don't know about you dude but if i had sold over 6 million copies but i've only got hundreds and hundreads of thousands of people a month after relase. Well christ i'd be damn worried!

Even more so because that would imply that there are 5 million people who Blizzard can't persuade to even use RMAH.


We're talking about concurrency here, not unique players. I think you also overestimate how many people actually play the games they purchase every day, or even every week.
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