Diablo® III

Why does Tyrael HAVE to be mortal to warn us?

I'm not sure if anyone has answered this previously but I've yet to find an appropriate answer to this question. Please keep in mind that I'm not asking how or why Tyrael is and looks human (because he isn't - he just apparently looks like one when in mortal form). I know the obvious answer is "because the story says so/ to create (false) drama" but I wonder if there's a proper "in-universe" explanation.

If Tyrael was able to interact with humans in Sanctuary before - he personally consulted and gave the soulstones to the Horadrim as an angel afterall - why can't he just float down/astral project himself to warn Sanctuary instead of making himself a bloody nuisance (he turned Tristram into an undead nightmare that we had to wade through) and just being plain useless (think about what he actually does for the remainder of D3 after you rescue him)?
Edited by Turalyon#6347 on 7/6/2012 10:43 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
17285
Imperius said the laws of the High Heavens strictly forbid angelic interference with the mortal world. Tyrael got away with it before because the other angels didn't notice what he'd been doing... until he destroyed the Worldstone.

If Tyrael had tried to return to Sanctuary as an archangel, it's likely that Imperius would have gone down there to bring him back. By sacrificing his position and power, Tyrael escaped the jurisdiction of Heaven - he was no longer bound by its laws, so the other angels let him be.
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Tyrael got away with it before because the other angels didn't notice what he'd been doing... until he destroyed the Worldstone.


07/06/2012 11:15 PMPosted by Egrem
If Tyrael had tried to return to Sanctuary as an archangel, it's likely that Imperius would have gone down there to bring him back.


Those two sentences above don't seem to mesh together well. On one hand, Tyrael can get away with his manipulation with mortals by providing them soulstones and knowledge of how to use them (which, in retrospect, was the reason why the Three were even able to establish such a foothold in Sanctuary and setting all these chain of events in motion) but on the other he can't get away with sending a mere warning (which is all that Tyrael actually does in D3)? Are we supposed to expect that because now Imperius knows (whereas he didn't before) of Tyrael's intervention in the mortal realm, that he is God Almighty and can stop Tyrael from doing anything? It's a bit hard to believe.

07/06/2012 11:15 PMPosted by Egrem
By sacrificing his position and power, Tyrael escaped the jurisdiction of Heaven - he was no longer bound by its laws, so the other angels let him be.


Funny, the angels don't seem to realise that their laws should also be strict on the imparting of angelic knowledge to non-angels as well... If it did, Imperius would have killed Tyrael anyway, mortal or not.
Edited by Turalyon#6347 on 7/7/2012 12:32 AM PDT
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07/07/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Turalyon
By sacrificing his position and power, Tyrael escaped the jurisdiction of Heaven - he was no longer bound by its laws, so the other angels let him be.


Funny, the angels don't seem to realise that their laws should also be strict on the imparting of angelic knowledge to non-angels as well... If it did, Imperius would have killed Tyrael anyway, mortal or not.

He also stepped right back into power at the end of the game, implying he never really lost a lot of it. He should have still been bound by their rules.
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07/07/2012 01:45 PMPosted by Bianary
He also stepped right back into power at the end of the game, implying he never really lost a lot of it. He should have still been bound by their rules.


What you didn't see was after Tyrael rejoined the council, Imperius says "now that you're not justice itself anymore, we gonna have ourselves a trial."
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07/07/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Turalyon
Funny, the angels don't seem to realise that their laws should also be strict on the imparting of angelic knowledge to non-angels as well... If it did, Imperius would have killed Tyrael anyway, mortal or not.

Make all the Angels sign Non-Disclosure-Agreements!
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I like how Tyreal is being slapped around for destroying the worldstone, but Imperius ignores the fact that the Prime Evils were breaking the pact themselves by doing all of that stuff on sanctuary, and nearly taking it over, and if it wasnt for Tyreal's help, they may have succeeded.

At this point, Imperius should be concerned that hell is breaking/has broken the pact. Knowing hell is still trying to influence sanctuary, he wants Tyreal to let it be? How does that make any sense? If anything, he should LET Tyreal go to warn the humans, because if he doesnt, Hell may actually succeed, which would result in heaven being destroyed as well as the humans would tip the balance in hell's favour.

That whole scene really made no sense at all.
Edited by ForTheTrees#1328 on 7/11/2012 9:30 PM PDT
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Basically it's because the story is badly written. Has Tyrael been turned into a mortal for destroying the soulstone or as a punishment it would have made more sense.

Also why didn't Tyrael have another angel or some other being deliver the message for him?
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07/06/2012 10:40 PMPosted by Turalyon
I wonder if there's a proper "in-universe" explanation.


Imperius was fed up with Tyrael's bull!@#$ and wanted to kill him.

From Tyrael's point of view, it was either :
-Stop helping humans (bad, plus it's against his whole 'justice' thing)
or
-Get killed by Imperius (bad)
or
-Kill Imperius (bad, plus the other angels would probably not take that well)
or
-Become mortal, and hope the Nephalem can win, with his warning.

In the journal, you learn that angels wanted to kill all of humanity because they thought Nephalems could very well be the most powerfull being in the universe.

So, I think it's at least plausible that Tyrael would've thought the best choice would be to let the Nephalem do it, rather than fighting imperius or to let humans fend for their own.
Edited by blood#1783 on 7/14/2012 9:54 AM PDT
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07/14/2012 09:54 AMPosted by blood
I wonder if there's a proper "in-universe" explanation.


Imperius was fed up with Tyrael's bull!@#$ and wanted to kill him.

From Tyrael's point of view, it was either :
-Stop helping humans (bad, plus it's against his whole 'justice' thing)
or
-Get killed by Imperius (bad)
or
-Kill Imperius (bad, plus the other angels would probably not take that well)
or
-Become mortal, and hope the Nephalem can win, with his warning.


Given that Tyrael was able to beat Imperius in a fight it's possible that he would be able to beat Imperius without either of them being killed. Thus options 2 and 3 could be avoided.

Also what's to stop Imperius killing mortal Tyrael?

In the journal, you learn that angels wanted to kill all of humanity because they thought Nephalems could very well be the most powerfull being in the universe.


In journal you learn that the Angelis Council, not all the angels, voted on whether to eradicate humanity. Imperius voted for it; Malthael abstained but they considered this a vote to eradicate humanity; and Tyrael, Auriel, and Itherael voted against it. So only Imperius supported destroying humanity, and the rest objected or weren't present to state their opinion.
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Tyrael couldn't just float down as an angel to warn humans because he was put on trial and Imperius was going for capital punishment. So Tyrael abandons his angelhood and is thrust out of Heaven to deliver the warning.

At the end he rejoins the Council, I'm guessing 'cause after Imperius got f'ed up by Diablo, he left and there was no opposition to Tyrael's return (Auriel and Itherael being sympathetic to Tyrael). Blizz probably didn't reveal anything about what happened to Imperius since we can be pretty certain he'll be the main antagonist of an expansion pack.
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He became mortal to be able to participate based on snippets here and there of NPC chat. He might have gotten away with a warning as an angel but he wanted to actively help fight the demons which was definitely not going to sit well with Imperius.

Somewhere in act 4 he says he wishes he had his full strength and when asked if he regrets his decision he says no, as long as he can stand and fight he made the right choice.

In act 1 before he got the sword I asked him about the dark coven and he said he doesn't really know but thought perhaps he came in part to fight the power behind them.

It seems to me he didn't want to be a bystander this round and he felt the only way to do that was to become mortal. I know in the other two Diablos he had to sneak around and couldn't do a lot because he was always dancing around the non interference pact. I think it probably also weighed on him that he was defying the Angiris Coiuncil and he needed to find a better way.
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Tyrael didn't appear in D1 but was mentioned in the back story as the angel who gave the soulstones to the Horadrim and helped them capture the prime evils. In D2 he fought against Diablo to prevent Baal being freed but lost, revives your companions in hell, and destroys the worldstone.

Unsure why Tyrael wanted to fight against the 2 lesser evils when he witnessed how humans were able to defeat the 3 prime evils and 2 lesser evils. You'd think he'd have more faith in humanity.
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Tyrael became mortal, bec they needed another useless side character to pad the POS story!
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Tyrael's being a mortal was a result of his quarrel with Imperius. Should've watched the act 1 cinematic before posting. He shed his wings as a sign of being separate from his brothers (because the other archangels are giving more importance to their ancient laws instead of protecting the innocent). The warning could have been delivered by Tyrael either way. It's just that their spat happened sooner than he could deliver his message to humanity.

And Imperius not giving a sh!t on what's happening in Sanctuary might be attributed on him being the aspect of valor. Being prideful enough to uphold the original pact with the demons.

TLDR: watch the post act 1 cinematic again
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07/20/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Andaphelmor
(because the other archangels are giving more importance to their ancient laws instead of protecting the innocent)

I think Tyreal's getting corrupted by humans, being an Angel he should be adhering to that law like it's what keeps him alive, because as an Angel, Law and Order are all that is important, well, that and killing as many demons as you can before you make a ding and explode in a flashy manner.
Innocence plays no part in the Angels' morals.
Besides, Humans aren't innocent, they're part demon, a very big no-no in the angel handbook.

Angels keep their side of the bargain is what makes them Angels, I'm pretty sure they realised that the Demons would never keep their side of the bargain, but order to the point of stagnation is what Angels do, and breaking an agreement is definitely not a lawful action.

all in all, I think Tyreal became a mortal because he realised he no longer believed as Angels do, and wanted to separate himself from them more than just abdicating his position on the Council.
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Doesn't make sense you say?

Chris Metzen.
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Doesn't make sense you say?

Chris Metzen.


Leave the ad hominem out of it.

Chris Metzen is one of the greatest Diablo fanfic writers there is.
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Tyrael is the archangel of Justice and whatever happens, he represents Justice. There is no justice ii murder, Zoltun Khulle said it too. Tyrael was speaking in a manner of "justice" in terms of innocence. Humans having no involvement, moral and act-wise (though they are the main cause) in the original war of demons and angels (Sin War).

I guess that's why Auriel and Tyrael objected the extermination of humans, mainly because of the aspects they represent. Hope and Justice
Edited by Andaphelmor#1762 on 7/21/2012 12:20 AM PDT
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