Diablo® III

The Wisdom of Tyrael

Tyrael: It just goes to show you, the more you fight evil the more it corrupts you.

Passerby: Pardon me, sir, I wasn’t eavesdropping but I couldn’t help but overhear your last statement. If you don’t mind, would you tell me what you mean?

Tyrael: What do you mean, tell you what I mean?

Passerby: Well, are you saying that the High Heavens will ultimately lose against evil?

Tyrael: What?! Where did you get that from? I didn’t say anything like that!

Passerby: Well, I believe what I heard you say was; “The more you fight evil the more it corrupts you.” That is what you said, isn’t it?

Tyrael: Yes, that’s what I said.

Passerby: And the High Heavens are in an Eternal War against Evil, isn’t it?

Tyrael: Yes, that correct.

Passerby: Well then, if it is as you say, the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us, then certainly, since the High Heavens fight evil eternally, the High Heavens will ultimately be corrupted, and thus lose.

Tyrael: No! No! No! That’s not what I’m saying at all! You’re trying to put words in my mouth! Who sent you, Imperius? I wasn’t talking about the High Heavens, I was talking about an individual.

Passerby: Ah, I see. Please forgive me. So, then, what you are saying is that we should stop fighting evil and just give up?

Tyrael: No! No! No! Where are you getting this stuff from? I never said that!

Passerby: Well, you did say that the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us. And if not fighting evil corrupts us, and fighting evil corrupts us, then what’s the point of fighting evil?

Tyrael: No! No! No! Are you sure Imperius didn’t send you here to trap me or something?

Passerby: Then perhaps with your statement that “the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us” you were trying your hand at a little dissemination?

Tyrael: Dis-what, now?

Passerby: You know, Dissemination, the non-concept that the French philosopher Jacques Derrida opposes to Polysemy.

Tyrael: Now, see, now I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Passerby: Well, if you didn’t mean any of the things that we’ve talked about, I must confess that I am at a loss as to what you mean by your statement.

Tyrael: I didn’t mean anything …

Passerby: Dissemination

Tyrael: I was just talking about Zolton Kulle. That’s all.

Passerby: Ah! I see. You were generalizing about Zolton Kulle’s life and attempting to draw some sort of lesson from it.

Tyrael: Now you got it. That’s all I meant.

Passerby: So, what about Deckard Cain?

Tyrael: What about him?

Passerby: Wasn’t Deckard Cain just as tireless a foe of evil as Zolton Kulle?

Tyrael: Yeah. So?

Passerby: So, was Deckard Cain corrupted by evil?

Tyrael: You know what? I’ve had enough of this conversation.

Passerby: So, you have no idea of what you were saying at all?

Tyrael: I hereby declare myself the Aspect of Wisdom!

Passerby: The universe is in deep do-do.
Edited by wongkeiying#1630 on 7/10/2012 1:02 PM PDT
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Hes talking about mortals/humans in general. Angels are alot harder to corrupt.
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07/10/2012 01:38 PMPosted by AscendedOne
Hes talking about mortals/humans in general. Angels are alot harder to corrupt.
you read the first paragraph. Nice.
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Posts: 1,198
Hes talking about mortals/humans in general. Angels are alot harder to corrupt.
you read the first paragraph. Nice.


Paragraph? Doesn't look like its sectioned like that. I only addressed one thing so that means I only read the thing I'm addressing.

Edit: Where extactly does the first "Paragraph" end?
Edited by Ascendedone#1637 on 7/10/2012 2:16 PM PDT
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07/10/2012 05:05 PMPosted by Picard
I somewhat loled
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07/10/2012 01:38 PMPosted by AscendedOne
Hes talking about mortals/humans in general. Angels are alot harder to corrupt.


Yet 1/3 of them did in fact become currupted.... Does not seem and more or less curruptable than man in my opinion.

1) The game in fact pointed it out pretty clear in their story making Tyrael out to be a black Jesus who saves mankind by becoming a man.

2) Imperious to be another incarnation of the top fallen angel who cared not for humannity "Diablo"...

3) You an aspect of Michael "God's General" who leads God's armies against Satan's forces in the Book of Revelation, where during the war in heaven he defeats Satan "Diablo" once and for all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(archangel)

GG
Edited by D3athStrik3#1951 on 7/10/2012 11:21 PM PDT
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07/10/2012 01:38 PMPosted by AscendedOne
Hes talking about mortals/humans in general. Angels are alot harder to corrupt.


The OP addressed that exact point.

The new Tyreal is an idiot.
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Yet 1/3 of them did in fact become currupted.... Does not seem and more or less curruptable than man in my opinion.


Where are you getting that number? Either way it took ages for that to happen. All the D1 heros get corrupted just after killing Diablo.

The OP addressed that exact point.


Where extactly does he address it? I dont see anything in the OP that attempts to make the comparision of how hard it is to corrupt an angel vs a human, or anything like that. Only that he was "just" talking about Zoltun Kulle, which could or could not be true.

I wasn’t talking about the High Heavens, I was talking about an individual.


This line? Thats saying he wasn't talking about angels in general, just one human, not saying its harder to corrupt angels then humans.

The new Tyreal is an idiot


While he could be an idiot, I don't see anything in the OP post that would suggest it other then his own representation of Tyrael, rather then talking about stuff shown ingame.
Edited by Ascendedone#1637 on 7/11/2012 2:36 PM PDT
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Can we kill Passerby?
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This gave me a chuckle.
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Yet 1/3 of them did in fact become currupted.... Does not seem and more or less curruptable than man in my opinion.


Where are you getting that number? Either way it took ages for that to happen. All the D1 heros get corrupted just after killing Diablo.


He's referring to the Bible which states that when Lucifer fell one third of the angels in Heaven fell with him. So 1 in 3 angels became corrupt.

The new Tyreal is an idiot


While he could be an idiot, I don't see anything in the OP post that would suggest it other then his own representation of Tyrael, rather then talking about stuff shown ingame.


Pretty much everything Tyrael does shows he's an idiot. In Act 1 because he tore off his wings he caused countless death and destruction. In Act 2 he failed to protect Leah, spouted the line the OP is quoting, and didn't do anything when Belial was attacking everyone. In Act 3 he was meant to be a general but never did anything tactical or strategic, then he got tricked by Adria. In Act 4 he moped around.

How exactly is Tyrael going to represent wisdom when he clearly isn't wise and never offers the player advice?
Edited by uanime5#2771 on 7/13/2012 4:57 PM PDT
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He's referring to the Bible which states that when Lucifer fell one third of the angels in Heaven fell with him. So 1 in 3 angels became corrupt.


Diablo is it's own seperate universe, do not ascociate it with the Bible.

Pretty much everything Tyrael does shows he's an idiot. In Act 1 because he tore off his wings he caused countless death and destruction. In Act 2 he failed to protect Leah, spouted the line the OP is quoting, and didn't do anything when Belial was attacking everyone. In Act 3 he was meant to be a general but never did anything tactical or strategic, then he got tricked by Adria. In Act 4 he moped around.

How exactly is Tyrael going to represent wisdom when he clearly isn't wise and never offers the player advice?


I didn't see anything in the OP post that would suggest stupidity other then the representation, I have however seen idiocy ingame. In Act 1, if he did not shed his wings, the Angelic Council would not have stood by and did nothing while Tyrael helped humanity. The line he quoted in Act 2 is not an idiotic statement. Yes he did fail to protect leah, but thats not about being wise.

Just because they don't say what Tyrael did doesn't mean he did nothing. Just because they don't say what strategical things Tyrael did doesn't mean he didn't do anything, he probably cordinated the efforts of the keep to prevent demons from getting in. Everyone in the game got tricked by Adria, not just him. Sure he moped around for the part of act 1, but he was there fighting alongside you for the second half.

Hes a little bit lacking on the wisdom side, but maybe it's not going to be about being wise, but rather seeking wisdom.
Edited by Ascendedone#1637 on 7/14/2012 12:01 AM PDT
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07/10/2012 12:54 PMPosted by wongkeiying
Passerby: Well then, if it is as you say, the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us, then certainly, since the High Heavens fight evil eternally, the High Heavens will ultimately be corrupted, and thus lose.


Unless some of the most powerfull angels are infinitely holy.

And even if 'fighting eveil corrupt us', the angels main point isn't to FIGHT evil.
It's to DESTROY evil.

The fight is just the mean to an end.

If they win and destroy evil forever, the fight stops so no one is corrupted.

So what you're saying is basically 'If you fight evil for all eternity and never win, we'll all be corrupted"

Yeah, I guess so...
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He's referring to the Bible which states that when Lucifer fell one third of the angels in Heaven fell with him. So 1 in 3 angels became corrupt.


Diablo is it's own seperate universe, do not ascociate it with the Bible.


Do you want me to explain what D3athStrik3 was talking about or not?

07/13/2012 05:16 PMPosted by AscendedOne
I didn't see anything in the OP post that would suggest stupidity other then the representation, I have however seen idiocy ingame. In Act 1, if he did not shed his wings, the Angelic Council would not have stood by and did nothing while Tyrael helped humanity.

What was the Angelic Council going to do if Tyrael defied them. Of the 4 other archangels this Council Tyrael was shown being able to beat Imperius in a fight, Malthael is MIA, and Itherael and Auriel are shown to be sympathetic to Tyrael. The Council wouldn't have been able to prevent Tyrael telling Decard Cain that Belial was in Caldium.

The line he quoted in Act 2 is not an idiotic statement.

The statement is deeply flawed as it implies that anyone who fights evil will become evil. This is why the passerby asks why they should fight evil when it will just result in them becoming evil.

Yes he did fail to protect leah, but thats not about being wise.

He's an angel with strong combat abilities who was mean to be protecting Leah. He'd have to do something pretty stupid for her to get captured.

Just because they don't say what Tyrael did doesn't mean he did nothing. Just because they don't say what strategical things Tyrael did doesn't mean he didn't do anything, he probably cordinated the efforts of the keep to prevent demons from getting in.


By that logic we may as well assume Tyrael is making shoes and selling hats. There's just as much evidence that Tyrael is making shoes as there is that he's doing anything strategic.

The fact that no one mentioned what Tyrael was doing and you never see him doing anything clearly shows he wasn't doing anything. You can't assume Tyrael was useful because you want him to be useful, it has to be backed up by something in game.

Everyone in the game got tricked by Adria, not just him. Sure he moped around for the part of act 1, but he was there fighting alongside you for the second half.


I think you mean act 4, not 1. Regardless as no one other than Tyrael was claiming that they embody wisdom it doesn't matter that they were tricked. However for Tyrael this is a huge problem as you can't represent wisdom if you're not wise.

Hes a little bit lacking on the wisdom side, but maybe it's not going to be about being wise, but rather seeking wisdom.

You can't have an angel representing wisdom who isn't wise any more than you can have an angel representing justice that isn't just. If Tyrael was going to seek wisdom so he could become the angel of wisdom this would make sense but he doesn't. He just decided that he's going to be the angel of wisdom despite never demonstrating any wisdom.
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100 Human Paladin
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07/14/2012 12:56 PMPosted by uanime5
What was the Angelic Council going to do if Tyrael defied them. Of the 4 other archangels this Council Tyrael was shown being able to beat Imperius in a fight, Malthael is MIA, and Itherael and Auriel are shown to be sympathetic to Tyrael. The Council wouldn't have been able to prevent Tyrael telling Decard Cain that Belial was in Caldium.


Tyrael got the better of Imperius in one scuffle... that doesn't mean he can defeat him consistently.

Imperius is said to be the greatest warrior in the Heavens. Tyrael might be a close second, but I could see Imperius winning 6 times out of 10 (or whatever).
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Tyreal got owned by Adria...He sucks
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Do you want me to explain what D3athStrik3 was talking about or not?


I thought you just did.

The statement is deeply flawed as it implies that anyone who fights evil will become evil. This is why the passerby asks why they should fight evil when it will just result in them becoming evil.


Flawed maybe, but not idiotic.

He's an angel with strong combat abilities who was mean to be protecting Leah. He'd have to do something pretty stupid for her to get captured.


Didn't Leah get captured by guards? Tyrael didn't know about their disguise yet, so maybe he didn't want to cause unnessiary blood shed.

By that logic we may as well assume Tyrael is making shoes and selling hats. There's just as much evidence that Tyrael is making shoes as there is that he's doing anything strategic. The fact that no one mentioned what Tyrael was doing and you never see him doing anything clearly shows he wasn't doing anything. You can't assume Tyrael was useful because you want him to be useful, it has to be backed up by something in game.


And by your logic nothing exists in Sanctuary beyond what we have already seen. We can assume he wasn't being a coach potato. Tyrael is an angel, I'd assume hes pretty motivated to stop the burning hells.

I think you mean act 4, not 1. Regardless as no one other than Tyrael was claiming that they embody wisdom it doesn't matter that they were tricked. However for Tyrael this is a huge problem as you can't represent wisdom if you're not wise.

You can't have an angel representing wisdom who isn't wise any more than you can have an angel representing justice that isn't just. If Tyrael was going to seek wisdom so he could become the angel of wisdom this would make sense but he doesn't. He just decided that he's going to be the angel of wisdom despite never demonstrating any wisdom.


Fine.... Just wait and see what they do with it when an expansion comes out. Why judge something before we see what it was ment for?
Edited by Ascendedone#1637 on 7/14/2012 5:12 PM PDT
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Tyrael: It just goes to show you, the more you fight evil the more it corrupts you.

Passerby: Pardon me, sir, I wasn’t eavesdropping but I couldn’t help but overhear your last statement. If you don’t mind, would you tell me what you mean?

Tyrael: What do you mean, tell you what I mean?

Passerby: Well, are you saying that the High Heavens will ultimately lose against evil?

Tyrael: What?! Where did you get that from? I didn’t say anything like that!

Passerby: Well, I believe what I heard you say was; “The more you fight evil the more it corrupts you.” That is what you said, isn’t it?

Tyrael: Yes, that’s what I said.

Passerby: And the High Heavens are in an Eternal War against Evil, isn’t it?

Tyrael: Yes, that correct.

Passerby: Well then, if it is as you say, the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us, then certainly, since the High Heavens fight evil eternally, the High Heavens will ultimately be corrupted, and thus lose.

Tyrael: No! No! No! That’s not what I’m saying at all! You’re trying to put words in my mouth! Who sent you, Imperius? I wasn’t talking about the High Heavens, I was talking about an individual.

Passerby: Ah, I see. Please forgive me. So, then, what you are saying is that we should stop fighting evil and just give up?

Tyrael: No! No! No! Where are you getting this stuff from? I never said that!

Passerby: Well, you did say that the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us. And if not fighting evil corrupts us, and fighting evil corrupts us, then what’s the point of fighting evil?

Tyrael: No! No! No! Are you sure Imperius didn’t send you here to trap me or something?

Passerby: Then perhaps with your statement that “the more we fight evil the more it corrupts us” you were trying your hand at a little dissemination?

Tyrael: Dis-what, now?

Passerby: You know, Dissemination, the non-concept that the French philosopher Jacques Derrida opposes to Polysemy.

Tyrael: Now, see, now I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Passerby: Well, if you didn’t mean any of the things that we’ve talked about, I must confess that I am at a loss as to what you mean by your statement.

Tyrael: I didn’t mean anything …

Passerby: Dissemination

Tyrael: I was just talking about Zolton Kulle. That’s all.

Passerby: Ah! I see. You were generalizing about Zolton Kulle’s life and attempting to draw some sort of lesson from it.

Tyrael: Now you got it. That’s all I meant.

Passerby: So, what about Deckard Cain?

Tyrael: What about him?

Passerby: Wasn’t Deckard Cain just as tireless a foe of evil as Zolton Kulle?

Tyrael: Yeah. So?

Passerby: So, was Deckard Cain corrupted by evil?

Tyrael: You know what? I’ve had enough of this conversation.

Passerby: So, you have no idea of what you were saying at all?

Tyrael: I hereby declare myself the Aspect of Wisdom!

Passerby: The universe is in deep do-do.


Except, doesn't he say that the Heavens will lose at some point? Or maybe that was the "united we kick angel !@#, divided we're srubs but hey I hate the six other guys."
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