Diablo® III

WW & Sprint RLTW mechanics (RoS update)

Gotta say, I really didnt understand much about this, so I wanted to ask something. Is it wise to use low dps dagger with good other stats instead of some slower but higher dps weapon in off hand? A friend of mine said it was better, even tho the dps sucks.

My profile: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Possue-2820/hero/7619908
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Hi,

what's up with the calc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjPQvt06HFyJdHJjY1JSVEo5dkI5QUttMzY1Q0pWR2c#gid=151 all day long?
Is there a way to download it?

Regards,
Sven
Edited by Sven#1755 on 1/17/2013 12:52 PM PST
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What would you say it's a good aps?

I'm able to get 36 ticks in both MH & OH, or in other words above 3.33 aps according with the info here.

I'm in the process of changing my gear to allocate better the stats and bonuses. Even so, I'm able to clear MP3 with the missing gear/gems.

BTW very useful guide.
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For large mobs the dps of the offhand hardly matters but for smaller mobs/elites the dps starts to matter...its whne you can't get max number of tornados on the mob hitting at the same time that the offhand dps actually matters.
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Well I'm done with the gear changes, so far its very very good. It feels like ww pre nerf, I'm even able to have berserker rage passive more time up than brawler, and in boss fights I'm able to have it like 40% of the time.
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Sorry for not answering questions lately.

Gotta say, I really didnt understand much about this, so I wanted to ask something. Is it wise to use low dps dagger with good other stats instead of some slower but higher dps weapon in off hand? A friend of mine said it was better, even tho the dps sucks.


It always depends on the actual set up and stats. Yes it´s a viable option and your dagger isn´t as bad as you think. You´ll boost tornado damage with your OH stats. WW will do less damage but depending on the OH stats you should still do more damage overall

Ideally use a site that lets you compare gear changes like d3rawr detailed calculator.

Hi,
what's up with the calc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjPQvt06HFyJdHJjY1JSVEo5dkI5QUttMzY1Q0pWR2c#gid=151 all day long?
Is there a way to download it?
Regards,
Sven


I´m not very familiar with google docs but I think there´s an option to copy the calc and use it like that. I´m considering taking that one down from the first post because people have really messed up the calc last time I took a look at it :/

Try d3rawr, he´s also got the breakpoints right.

What would you say it's a good aps?

I'm able to get 36 ticks in both MH & OH, or in other words above 3.33 aps according with the info here.

I'm in the process of changing my gear to allocate better the stats and bonuses. Even so, I'm able to clear MP3 with the missing gear/gems.

BTW very useful guide.


36 ticks is rarely seen on both weapon, that´s pretty much the maximum you can get (45 being extreme). I´d say 23 is a good number for DW to keep up WotB depending on crit chance and MP, 26 ticks is nice, best geared barbs I´ve seen run 30/36 because they use Echoing Fury which can´t achieve the 36 tick breakpoint.

To be exact, you´d need all gearslots with ASI including legacy Zuni boots and an alive Enchantress for 36 breakpoints with EF. Not worth it.

EDIT: Oh, or the Zumakalis sword as OH lol. You got me there.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 1/23/2013 5:26 AM PST
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Could you check my gear. So far I can archive 36 with 2 weapons with +APS. So far the difference between 36 and the regular 23-26 it's huge in terms of playability. The only downside is EF fear, I really need some sort of control thru % chance on hit or +% cold dmg.

I do still need alive Enchantress, but i could use ASI on ammy, belt, boots, or in EF. I have been thinking about getting a EF with IAS.

But may main question is how to meassure DPS more exactly, I know what without ZUmakalis my dps went up even with just the MH EF, but in real test is not, I know I'm gaining +0.17 APS, 124% CD.
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Yep going so high with tick frequency really limits gear options. You have exactly 103% ASI with WotB up if I´m not mistaken which is needed for EF to hit the 36 tick breakpoint assuming your Enchantress is alive. You really have to get a cold SoJ with an EF in MH or look for some threads of people who give solid advice on gear choices how to solve the fear problem. Then you have to either get a Witching Hour or ASI on an amulet.

As I´ve said, going for 36 ticks with an EF is maybe too troublesome for the majority of players, but you´re there already, just need to keep your Enchantress alive (from my exp she dies too fast against bigger packs and elites even with a lot of HP and LoH anyway) and get a cold damage source somewhere. Otherwise stick with 30/36 MH/OH ticks and get a bit of breathing room for your gear options.

To measure DPS try to upload your amory into d3rawr detailed calculator with all the skill bonuses checked. That should give you an idea what you´re working with and what stats will give you the most damage increase.
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Well using Zumakalis + Enchantress is a good combo for MP5 or less, for higher I'll stick with a bigger MH and use EF as OH.
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Hi,
what's up with the calc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjPQvt06HFyJdHJjY1JSVEo5dkI5QUttMzY1Q0pWR2c#gid=151 all day long?
Is there a way to download it?
Regards,
Sven


I´m not very familiar with google docs but I think there´s an option to copy the calc and use it like that. I´m considering taking that one down from the first post because people have really messed up the calc last time I took a look at it :/


I already found the answer. You have to create a Google Drive acc first, then you can copy the file for your personal use. :)
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7811652195?page=1

You have any thoughts or can you clarify how Sprint works while actively casting Whirlwind? Should your offhand breakpoint matter and is it used in the tDPS calc?

Thanks for all your research Nubtro and if anyone else has taken a look at how this works please share.
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I also run without a Fury generator recently (WW+RLTW+OPKS+Rend) but anyway...

Your WW after Rend should always use the OH tick frequency for the duriation of channeling until the next Rend.

RLTW while WWing is impossible to determine because WW does indeed alternate what is considered last weapon swung for RLTW (WW frequency stays the same but it changes for RLTW) - what I found out is that the game uses the aps value displayed in the character screen details for determining which weapon aps is used for RLTW.

What I mean is of course it uses the exact non-rounded value but the frequency is determined by which weapon aps was shown last before you cast Sprint.

Here´s some of the posts about the research
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#165
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#167
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#169

The last one contains the major info. My bad for not adding it to the first post for such a long time.

EDIT: added the "RLTW while channeling WW" info to the first post. I´ll retest if Rend always resets back to MH displayed aps.

EDIT2: Yep Rend always stops to swing with MH so the next WW will always tick at the OH frequency. Sprint click after Rend but before WW click should tick at MH frequency but the next Sprint frequency may change while you channel WW, depending on what weapon aps was displayed last before clicking Sprint.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 2/6/2013 1:42 AM PST
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Thanks for taking the time to check into it Nubtro, good stuff as always.

Looks like I'll be trying to get another slot of IAS.
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Posts: 6,836
I also run without a Fury generator recently (WW+RLTW+OPKS+Rend) but anyway...

Your WW after Rend should always use the OH tick frequency for the duriation of channeling until the next Rend.

RLTW while WWing is impossible to determine because WW does indeed alternate what is considered last weapon swung for RLTW (WW frequency stays the same but it changes for RLTW) - what I found out is that the game uses the aps value displayed in the character screen details for determining which weapon aps is used for RLTW.

What I mean is of course it uses the exact non-rounded value but the frequency is determined by which weapon aps was shown last before you cast Sprint.

Here´s some of the posts about the research
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#165
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#167
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#169

The last one contains the major info. My bad for not adding it to the first post for such a long time.

EDIT: added the "RLTW while channeling WW" info to the first post. I´ll retest if Rend always resets back to MH displayed aps.

EDIT2: Yep Rend always stops to swing with MH so the next WW will always tick at the OH frequency. Sprint click after Rend but before WW click should tick at MH frequency but the next Sprint frequency may change while you channel WW, depending on what weapon aps was displayed last before clicking Sprint.


Wow. Just what my intuition has been for awhile now. I have always had my off-hand attack faster than my main hand, so this really reaffirms that I was right to have used Rend for the longest time. Fantastic work, Nubtro.
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Sorry but I'm a really a noob at this.

(my MH is a Butcher's sickle, OH is a 0.45 aps EF)

My APS for both is 2.10 and 1.97. Does that mean I'm at 18 nado tps atm?

And in order to increase it to 20 Nado tps I would need to improve my APS to 2.00 and 2.23?

Also should I swap my weapons? Or leave them as it is?
Edited by Findmucking#6369 on 2/10/2013 9:04 PM PST
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Actually your main hand is at 2.45 and your off hand at 2.29 fully buffed.

Both of your weapons fall in the 2.22- 2.5 range.
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Oh! How did you see that? If I want to up my range to the next tps, do you know how much IAS from gear I require?
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Pieton is right about your aps Findmucking.

Basically your MH weapon aps is 1.30+0.25 from the Echoing Fury (applied to both weapons) and OH weapon aps is 1.45. You have 18% ASI on gear (Lacuni and Ring), 15% ASI from dual-wielding and 25% from Wrath of the Berserker (assuming it is up).

MH total aps = (1.30 + 0.25) * (1 + 0.18 + 0.15 + 0.25) = 1.55 * 1.58 = 2.449 aps
OH total aps = 1.45 * 1.58 = 2.291 aps

Both weapons give you 23 ticks. If your Enchantress is alive, you get additional 0.03 aps on the weapon itself, so:
MH aps = 1.58 * 1.58 = 2.4964
OH aps = 1.48 * 1.58 = 2.3384

Still 23 ticks on both weapons. Without Enchantress, you need 2.50001 / 1.55 - 1.58 = 4% ASI to achieve the next breakpoint (26 ticks) with the MH and 2.50001 / 1.45 - 1.58 = 15% ASI for the 26 tick breakpoint with the OH. If your Enchantress is alive, you need 1% ASI for next MH breakpoint and 11% for the next OH breakpoint.

So either way, you need 1 more gear slot with ASI for the next MH breakpoint and 2 gear slots with ASI for the next OH breakpoint.
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Awesome stuff Nubtro so essentially for my next breakpoint I would need an increase in 15% attack speed without enchantress.

What about if i upgrade my sickle to a 0.4aps sword how much increase of as in gear would I need then?

Once again thank you for your time and great thread.
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Up for anyone who can help. Thank you.
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