Diablo® III

WW & Sprint RLTW mechanics (RoS update)

There are casual players and there are people who like to know the exact mechanics and how to optimize their gear/build, even if it´s by 0.5%.

I´m the type that researches stuff out of curiosity, to know how it works. I have not found any information or research about this. Sprint tornadoes are getting more and more popular, so why not know the skill mechanics?

I don´t think they will nerf this. Double tornado makes people still enjoy this game. Also if they did stealth nerf it, I would instantly know after like 1 test, because I have the data how it works right know (tick frequency, tick damage, proc coefficients).

I don´t really get what you wanted to say with your post, but thanks for your input. I don´t post how powerful I am, actually I´ve only just began using Whirlwind 2 days ago (plus I´m only able to farm act 2). Before that I was using solely Sprint for gear reasons and not being able to make WW work. That was the main reason I researched Tornadoes in the first place, to know how to maximize damage with a Sprint focused (only) build.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 7/19/2012 6:45 AM PDT
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good info thx
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07/09/2012 04:39 PMPosted by Klaus
With all the hype and talk about this build.. and showing off beating act 3 with 1m worth of gear. Will this build even survive the next 2 weeks? It's the build i use but with the non stop talk i feel like its going to get nerfed very soon.


Don't worry about a nerf. If you really use this build then you surely know that it's not that easy to have the correct combination of items and stats in order to SURVIVE act 3. It may seem easy in the videos but anyone who has tried this build knows that the line between succeeding with this build and dieing to first act trash mob is very thin.
I also use this build since Dino published his first videos on Youtube, I invested a lot in items but still I have to skip A LOT of elites in a full act 3 run and I die like 20 times or more.
This build is the kind of build that Blizzard likes to see us using. It's ultra offensive and the play stile matches their intention of trying to kill the mobs before they kill us and also matches our desire to have fun while playing the classical melee character in Diablo universe.
Edited by EviscEratoR#2619 on 7/21/2012 5:23 AM PDT
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Great info, for me the biggest takeaway is this:

Swing once with the offhand before starting any sprints.
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85 Undead Warrior
5485
Posts: 1,462
TLDR

better to stack resists and loh and dmg than to bother making more tornadoes
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You sir are an unprecedented boss, may I add you in game ?
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85 Orc Warrior
9730
Posts: 197
@Nubtro
Question. Does the use of whirlwind automatically cause the OH weapon to hit last? Or is a timing thing?

The reason I'm curious because with the Dino double tornado build (Run Like Wind + WW) you're using the sprint but after you get started, you use it in conjunction with WW. So I'm curious if the OH ALWAYS hits last with WW? If so, then it makes it VERY important to have a fast OH if you want strong fury generation from your tornadoes. That said, it's a kinda a double edged sword because you noted that: "Important note: I also researched Whirlwind and it seems to follow the same aps scaling values as Sprint tornadoes.

EDIT: Whirlwind Fury cost scaling with aps. "

So you generate more fury, but also spend more once you get WW'ing. Am I understanding all this correctly?
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So how much of a benefit would I see switching from mace offhand to a dagger offhand with similar stats? Currently have mace + mace.

I would go from 4.33 tps to 5.67 tps if I'm interpreting the post correctly. How much of a benefit is this? Enough to sacrifice other stats like strength?
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bump
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07/23/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Reaver
You sir are an unprecedented boss, may I add you in game ?


lol did you mean me or Woojr? Btw Woojr this topic is about making your tornadoes hit more, not about making more tornadoes.

@Nubtro
Question. Does the use of whirlwind automatically cause the OH weapon to hit last? Or is a timing thing?

The reason I'm curious because with the Dino double tornado build (Run Like Wind + WW) you're using the sprint but after you get started, you use it in conjunction with WW. So I'm curious if the OH ALWAYS hits last with WW? If so, then it makes it VERY important to have a fast OH if you want strong fury generation from your tornadoes. That said, it's a kinda a double edged sword because you noted that: "Important note: I also researched Whirlwind and it seems to follow the same aps scaling values as Sprint tornadoes.

EDIT: Whirlwind Fury cost scaling with aps. "

So you generate more fury, but also spend more once you get WW'ing. Am I understanding all this correctly?


1. I´m not sure what you mean. You mean whirlwind as a "main-off, main-off, main-off, etc." sequence ending with "off"?

Nope, whirlwind alternates weapons (both aps and damage) and you can get an even or odd number of ticks, depending on its duration. That´s why I explicitly said "to maximize tornado tick damage" and not "to maximize double tornado build damage" in my post.

2. Yes the higher your tick frequency the more fury cost for whirlwind, but it´s linear. Each tick costs 5.4 on average. You will run out of fury faster with more aps, but also take into account that each WW critical hit has a (13%) chance to generate 15 fury through into the fray.

Consider that most of the fury (and damage) comes from tornadoes. Let´s compare the two:

1. damage - same frequency (leaving out), most of the time you have 4 tornadoes up while whirlwinding. Each tornado does 20% of main hand weapon damage per tick, each whirlwind tick does 36.67% (alternating) weapon damage per tick. So if there´s just 2 tornadoes hitting the same number of oponents as whirlwind, it does more damage (even more if you go high damage main and fast+stats off-hand).

2. fury generation (into the fray) - same frequency, sprint has a 20% proc coefficient and whirlwind has a 13% proc coefficient. So on average you need 5 tornado critical ticks to generate 15 fury and 7.7 whirlwind critical ticks for the same. Again, you have up to 4 (rarely 5) tornadoes up almost all of the time.

That´s why people tend to look more at optimizing sprint tornadoes than whirlwind. In an ideal d3 world, you´d have a 350 strength, 959 loh, +200% CH damage (socketed) 1100+ dps 1.20 aps mace in main hand and a 7% weapon IAS dagger with the same stats and dps in the off-hand :p

So how much of a benefit would I see switching from mace offhand to a dagger offhand with similar stats? Currently have mace + mace.
I would go from 4.33 tps to 5.67 tps if I'm interpreting the post correctly. How much of a benefit is this? Enough to sacrifice other stats like strength?


The benefit is 5.67/4.33 = 30.9% when you sprint after swinging with the off-hand. In the heat of the battle it´s impossible to conciously apply this. So it´s about half of that boost.

You should figure out yourself whether to change your off-hand. You said similar stats, I understood same dps and same str./vit/CH/loh. If the only difference between them would be the aps value, then yes, dagger as off-hand is better. If the dagger has less important stats then let it be, get some IAS somewhere instead to achieve the next best breakpoint with your maces.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 7/23/2012 2:44 PM PDT
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With all this info in mind, which is very interesting, I'd love to see a link to someone's gear that is making this work. Would it be crazy expensive? To get the AIS, crit, hp, and res needed to make this work. Sounds like a lot of fun just wondering what the gear looks like on anyone doing it.
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Posts: 1,141
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thanks for the great info and work - i wish i had the patience to write down my research while going run like the wind, or i had this great resource available to me when i did.

sticky requested.
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Nubtro - added you in-game.

I'd like to consult with you on weapon choices I'm evaluating and I'm happy to pay you for your time if necessary.

blayze#1534
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Nubtro,

Thank you for this awesome research. Can you please make a WW barb accurate damage calculator? I.e. the amount of damage per second with four tornadoes on a target and whirlwind AKA the "Perfect Storm". I think people would love that!
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^^
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So how much of a benefit would I see switching from mace offhand to a dagger offhand with similar stats? Currently have mace + mace.

I would go from 4.33 tps to 5.67 tps if I'm interpreting the post correctly. How much of a benefit is this? Enough to sacrifice other stats like strength?


Simple math, 5.67/4.33 = 1.30946
Thus 30.95% damage increase from tornadoes

Bump for knowledge
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Excellent info thx.
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Posts: 11
I built a sprinter based on the 4x9% build with + 11% ias dagger off-hand and cold hammer main-hand. Thats the highest u can get (8.66 ticks/sec) without legendaries (whose additional stats are usually not impressive). It is awesome. Wrath of the Berserker does insane damage getting it up to the 10 ticks/sec. During wrath I put a 1300 dps 2h on and left game just to see the damage in profile and it was... 165k dps! Crazy! WotB dual wielding with 3 tornadoes on target is probably like 200k dps. Belial dies before first circles come out. Elites die before WotB cooldown, even waller and shielding.
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THANK YOU FOR THE INFO!
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is this info still valid in 1.0.4?
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