Diablo® III

WW & Sprint RLTW mechanics (RoS update)

Twister's calc doesn't work anymore. .c
Edited by Sven#1755 on 11/9/2012 4:08 PM PST
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Nubtro, very impressive and helpful work. Unbelievable how this build scales with MP

To add, I'm getting amazing results with cold damage on my main hand even at lower DPS than what I was doing with my 100% physical main hand. Perhaps they stay in the tornados longer for more damage.

Google spreadsheet does work for me. Make sure you enter IAS as a percentage i.e.: .09
Edited by Frigg#1154 on 11/11/2012 6:57 PM PST
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Your google spreadsheet is adding bonus APS to both weapons...

I have echoing fury which has +.25 aps and a dagger which doesn't have any attack speed. However the dagger shows as 1.75.
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EF adds to aps for both weapons and not just itself.
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^
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Amazing analysis, thank you very much!
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Bump for awareness.
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Can someone look at my Barb and tell me if I have to much AIS or Not enough or to much cd or not enough...what could I rebalance to make it overall better?
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Guys,

I get it, swing OH, run, WW, thats the best /as i understand/
but
what if I use HOTA instead of Bash.
Will it count from last MH/OH swing, or HOTA has different attack per sec?

Thx...
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I'm having some trouble understanding the chart or any of the guides, I tried to calculated my APS but it doesn't seem to be right. Can someone take a look at my gear and tell me if I'm over a breakpoint my hellfire ring now has 7% IAS I don't think my profile is updated yet.
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4. When dual-wielding, tornado tick frequency depends on the attacks per second (aps) of the last weapon swung before using Sprint.


Question on this. Assuming that the last weapon swung is the faster weapon (e.g bash using OH dagger) following which RLTW is activated. Does tornado speeds still alternate between OH / MH (given that WW action alternates between both weapons) or would it just be based on OH speed for the entire duration that WW + RLTW is activated.
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Blizz may make some poor decisions but their not that stupid. They know how many players the game would lose if they killed this barb spec.
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Adding a bookmark on this. Thanks for the info.
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Say if you have AIS to give up and you get an item that has the exact same stats as the previous except NO AIS...now the game would show -dps but would that reflect reality?
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Awsome, thanks much for this helpful information. Great work.

As for nerfs to this style of build I don't see it happening, the only thing I could see getting tweaked is the wraith of the berserker skill.
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12/08/2012 11:12 PMPosted by Felandro
I'm having some trouble understanding the chart or any of the guides, I tried to calculated my APS but it doesn't seem to be right. Can someone take a look at my gear and tell me if I'm over a breakpoint my hellfire ring now has 7% IAS I don't think my profile is updated yet.


I guess I should make a step by step guide for...let´s say easy math for everyone

But really, there´s a link to Twister´s google spreadsheet in the first post and also ssdraw´s calculator gives you the breakpoints when you load your armory.

Oh well, you have 41% ASI (IAS) on gear, you dual wield (15%), WotB is up (25%) = your weapon speed is increased by 41+15+25 = 81% = 1.81

Your main hand is an Echoing Fury with 1.43 aps, your off-hand is a Sword (1.40 aps) + 0.23 aps from the EF so 1.63 aps off-hand

MH aps is 1.43 * 1.81 = 2.5883 aps
OH aps is 1.63 * 1.81 = 2.9503 aps

2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 frames per tick - 8.57 ticks per second - 26 ticks
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames per tick - 10.0 ticks per second - 30 ticks

Really nice result on both weapons when WotB is up. As a bonus information, you could get rid of 5% ASI on your gear right now and still keep the breakpoints.

12/09/2012 05:26 AMPosted by MASKOAA
Say if you have AIS to give up and you get an item that has the exact same stats as the previous except NO AIS...now the game would show -dps but would that reflect reality?


if you achieve the same WW/RLTW breakpoint without the AIS, you should do the exact same damage with those two skills, but your bash/frenzy whatever will swing slower so they´ll do less damage over time.

12/08/2012 11:33 PMPosted by DAKKON
4. When dual-wielding, tornado tick frequency depends on the attacks per second (aps) of the last weapon swung before using Sprint.


Question on this. Assuming that the last weapon swung is the faster weapon (e.g bash using OH dagger) following which RLTW is activated. Does tornado speeds still alternate between OH / MH (given that WW action alternates between both weapons) or would it just be based on OH speed for the entire duration that WW + RLTW is activated.


RLTW should be based on OH speed over its duration even if you WW during the 3 seconds, because WW alternates just damage but not tick frequency. Also if someone managed to click WW and RLTW simultaneously, they would tick at opposite weapons frequences (RLTW weapon swung and WW weapon about to swing).

There´s been speculation about swinging in the middle of it all with another skill (notably Punish or Maniac) and what would happen but seriously it´s too bothersome to keep track of this kind of thing in the heat of the battle, so my best advice is to get the breakpoints and just play the game. There´s so much skill spamming going on so that purposely going for a a certain swing at higher aps would be kind of crazy.

Note that I have yet to research what happens when Overpower is used while channeling WW. I´m currently not in a research mood but when it comes again, I´ll try to test it.

I´m considering adding another column or two in the chart giving a DPS value at breakpoints, at least for WW. Example:

2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 fps - 6.67 tps - 322.22% dps - 20 ticks
2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 fps - 7.50 tps - 362.50% dps - 23 ticks
2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 fps - 8.57 tps - 414.29% dps - 26 ticks

WW dps = 145%/3 * tps. I´d then split the chart into separate WW and RLTW and maybe add 1 tornado RLTW dps and RLTW total damage (over 3 seconds). Hopefully people won´t be confused by this.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 12/9/2012 7:15 AM PST
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RLTW should be based on OH speed over its duration even if you WW during the 3 seconds, because WW alternates just damage but not tick frequency. Also if someone managed to click WW and RLTW simultaneously, they would tick at opposite weapons frequences (RLTW weapon swung and WW weapon about to swing).

There´s been speculation about swinging in the middle of it all with another skill (notably Punish or Maniac) and what would happen but seriously it´s too bothersome to keep track of this kind of thing in the heat of the battle, so my best advice is to get the breakpoints and just play the game. There´s so much skill spamming going on so that purposely going for a a certain swing at higher aps would be kind of crazy.

Note that I have yet to research what happens when Overpower is used while channeling WW. I´m currently not in a research mood but when it comes again, I´ll try to test it.

I´m considering adding another column or two in the chart giving a DPS value at breakpoints, at least for WW. Example:

2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 fps - 6.67 tps - 322.22% dps - 20 ticks
2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 fps - 7.50 tps - 362.50% dps - 23 ticks
2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 fps - 8.57 tps - 414.29% dps - 26 ticks

WW dps = 145%/3 * tps. I´d then split the chart into separate WW and RLTW and maybe add 1 tornado RLTW dps and RLTW total damage (over 3 seconds). Hopefully people won´t be confused by this.


Thanks for this. So if I activate RLTW just after using the OH attack, I would be ticking for the next 3 seconds using WW. Assuming we refresh RLTW during the WW animation (common for barbs to do this), it would still maintain at the OH speed?

OP: KS does not change which weapon is being swung from what I can tell. Certain skills like Ground Stomp would always default back to MH APS which is crucial for me given that it is my faster weapon with EF as my OH (3.35 APS with WoTB).
Edited by DAKKON#6113 on 12/9/2012 7:50 AM PST
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Thanks for this. So if I activate RLTW just after using the OH attack, I would be ticking for the next 3 seconds using WW. Assuming we refresh RLTW during the WW animation (common for barbs to do this), it would still maintain at the OH speed?

OP: KS does not change which weapon is being swung from what I can tell. Certain skills like Ground Stomp would always default back to MH APS which is crucial for me given that it is my faster weapon with EF as my OH (3.35 APS with WoTB).


From the info we have, theoretically speaking, it should stick with OH speed in your example but I can´t tell you if this is 100% correct unless I test it and it would be a really difficult test as I need to actually hit a monster with RLTW. We know how the game decides tick frequency in a solo RLTW situation and a solo WW situation, but using both at the same time at different activation times is a different story.

Again, I´ll try to test it next week.

Anyway, here are the updated charts

RLTW TICK FREQUENCY CHART

APS: Attacks Per Second value
FPT: Frames Per Tick (frame length) = (20 / aps); rounded down to the nearest whole number
TPS: Ticks Per Second (tick frequency) = (60 / frame length)
DPS: Damage per second (dps) of 1 tornado = (60 / frame length) * 20%
TICKS: total number of ticks over 3 seconds (1 tornado) = (180 / frame length); rounded up to the nearest whole number
DMG: total damage over 3 seconds = (180 / frame length) * 20%

0.90000-0.90908 aps - 22 fpt - 2.73 tps - 54.55% dps - 9 ticks - 180% dmg
0.90909-0.95237 aps - 21 fpt - 2.86 tps - 57.14% dps - 9 ticks - 180% dmg
0.95238-1.00000 aps - 20 fpt - 3.00 tps - 60.00% dps - 9 ticks - 180% dmg
1.00001-1.05262 aps - 19 fpt - 3.16 tps - 63.16% dps - 10 ticks - 200% dmg
1.05263-1.11111 aps - 18 fpt - 3.33 tps - 66.67% dps - 10 ticks - 200% dmg
1.11112-1.17647 aps - 17 fpt - 3.53 tps - 70.59% dps - 11 ticks - 220% dmg
1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 fpt - 3.75 tps - 75.00% dps - 12 ticks - 240% dmg
1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 fpt - 4.00 tps - 80.00% dps - 12 ticks - 240% dmg
1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 fpt - 4.29 tps - 85.71% dps - 13 ticks - 260% dmg
1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 fpt - 4.62 tps - 92.31% dps - 14 ticks - 280% dmg
1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 fpt - 5.00 tps - 100.00% dps - 15 ticks - 300% dmg
1.66667-1.81818 aps - 11 fpt - 5.45 tps - 109.09% dps - 17 ticks - 340% dmg
1.81819-1.99999 aps - 10 fpt - 6.00 tps - 120.00% dps - 18 ticks - 360% dmg
2.00000-2.22222 aps - 9 fpt - 6.67 tps - 133.33% dps - 20 ticks - 400% dmg
2.22223-2.49999 aps - 8 fpt - 7.50 tps - 150.00% dps - 23 ticks - 460% dmg
2.50000-2.85714 aps - 7 fpt - 8.57 tps - 171.43% dps - 26 ticks - 520% dmg
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 fpt - 10.0 tps - 200.00% dps - 30 ticks - 600% dmg
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 fpt - 12.0 tps - 240.00% dps - 36 ticks - 720% dmg
4.00001-5.00000 aps - 4 fpt - 15.0 tps - 300.00% dps - 45 ticks - 900% dmg
5.00001-6.66666 aps - 3 fpt - 20.0 tps - 400.00% dps - 60 ticks - 1200% dmg
6.66667-10.0000 aps - 2 fpt - 30.0 tps - 600.00% dps - 90 ticks - 1800% dmg
>10.0000 aps - 1 fpt - 60.0 tps - 1200.00% dps - 180 ticks - 3600% dmg

Notes for math freaks:

DPS can be used to determine damage over 1 second at any given time of a ticking tornado. This value is accurate because it uses the actual tick frame length and doesn´t take into account the adjusted frame length of the first tick. It would be possible to calculate dps as ((total number of ticks/3 * 20%) which would result in slightly different dps but the first formula is more accurate. The difference stems from the rounding. Frame length calculation is rounded down, but number of ticks over 3 seconds calculation is rounded up.

Total damage shows how much damage one tornado does if you let it tick for the whole duration of 3 seconds.

WHIRLWIND TICK FREQUENCY CHART

APS: Attacks Per Second value
FPT: Frames Per Tick (frame length) = (20 / aps); rounded down to the nearest whole number
TPS: Ticks Per Second (tick frequency) = (60 / frame length)
DPS: Damage per second (dps) = (145%/3 * tick frequency); for Volcanic Eruption dps, multiply the value in the chart by 1.3 (30%).

0.90000-0.90908 aps - 22 fpt - 2.73 tps - 131.82% dps
0.90909-0.95237 aps - 21 fpt - 2.86 tps - 138.10% dps
0.95238-1.00000 aps - 20 fpt - 3.00 tps - 145.00% dps
1.00001-1.05262 aps - 19 fpt - 3.16 tps - 152.63% dps
1.05263-1.11111 aps - 18 fpt - 3.33 tps - 161.11% dps
1.11112-1.17647 aps - 17 fpt - 3.53 tps - 170.59% dps
1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 fpt - 3.75 tps - 181.25% dps
1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 fpt - 4.00 tps - 193.33% dps
1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 fpt - 4.29 tps - 207.14% dps
1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 fpt - 4.62 tps - 223.08% dps
1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 fpt - 5.00 tps - 241.67% dps
1.66667-1.81818 aps - 11 fpt - 5.45 tps - 263.64% dps
1.81819-1.99999 aps - 10 fpt - 6.00 tps - 290.00% dps
2.00000-2.22222 aps - 9 fpt - 6.67 tps - 322.22% dps
2.22223-2.49999 aps - 8 fpt - 7.50 tps - 362.50% dps
2.50000-2.85714 aps - 7 fpt - 8.57 tps - 414.29% dps
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 fpt - 10.0 tps - 483.33% dps
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 fpt - 12.0 tps - 580.00% dps
4.00001-5.00000 aps - 4 fpt - 15.0 tps - 725.00% dps
5.00001-6.66666 aps - 3 fpt - 20.0 tps - 966.67% dps
6.66667-10.0000 aps - 2 fpt - 30.0 tps - 1450.0% dps
>10.0000 aps - 1 fpt - 60.0 tps - 2900.0% dps
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Nice just updated my toon but profile isn't updated. Just bought an all res Tal Rash with 8 IAS and a Unity with 6. My other ring has 9, amulet has 9, gloves have 9, helm has 9, bracers have 9. 1.44 mainhand with 11ias 1.50 off hand. I should be exactly 1 ais over what I needed for 30 ticks with WOTB.
Edited by MASKOAA#1251 on 12/9/2012 9:17 AM PST
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Nubtro: Can you link your character? Curiosity has gotten to me due to your awesome work on this
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