Diablo® III

Need some help on when to progress

Hi Guys,

I didn't want to have to do this, but I'm getting very frustrated. I lost my second 55+ monk in Act 2 hell today. Both times the monks were playing a build I'm extremely comfortable with as it's my SC build i've used for all of inferno.

The stats on the characters were very good for the level and a nice balance of mostly defense with decent offense mixed in.

Latest monk lost lvl 56
~3800 armor
~124 AR
~25000 Life
~4400 dps
~39% dodge

Unfortunately I'm running into Elite/Champ packs that are ruining me. Today it was a champ pack spawned on top of an elite pack, and they honestly just swarmed me into a corner and poof. The previous time it was just getting stomped by bad affixes.

My question to you all is thus, at 56 I though I was ok to be running around at Zultan Kulle in Act 2 Hell, but as this is 2 times I've lost chars to champ packs here I wanted to get some perspective. Is that level sufficient for act 2, or should I be trying to spend more time in act 1 or even in NM?

I had progressed because levels were getting extremely tedious to get in act 1 when I hit 54. If this should not be tedious, what could I be doing wrong to wring more XP out of previous acts? Any thoughts are appreciated.


EDIT: Affixes on the packs that got me this morning.

Champ: Arcane, Vampiric, Molten

Elite: Waller, Desecrator, Fire Chains
Edited by Melgrath#1826 on 7/12/2012 4:33 AM PDT
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Posts: 52
i always powerlevel to 60 on early mobs/quests in act 2. last time i had to level i did the road to arcanus from 55 to 60 in a couple hours not sure if thats still the case, but definately not go past magda before 60 if you want to be safe imo
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I lost a level 56 and 57 wizard in that desert just before zoltan kulle, though both were due to carelessness really (one walked over multiple molten explosions while low on health and one had already done kulle and was farming when I teleported into a pack with the champ still buried under the sand and didn't realise until too late that I wasn't surrounded with trash mobs).

However, I have found that each time I've been around that point, I've needed a better weapon and an adjustment to my build (though the latter is probably because I bought a slow 2 hander each time at that point).
Edited by childsish#6632 on 7/12/2012 4:57 AM PDT
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Posts: 152
Have LOH?
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More life would be nice. When you have to use serenity, run for your life until it is back on cooldown. As a monk, you have at least 3 defensive abilities that prevent being trapped in a corner. Blinding flash will scatter them just enough to get through, inner sanctuary + heal, or heal + fear(i think that is available at 60). It is a must to use one of these abilities to prevent getting cornered, or even trapped in arcane by multiple fat mobs.

Consider using fists of thunder with teleport as well. The fact that you didn't list life on hit as a primary stat means you undervalue it, 300 life on hit will make an absurd difference in survivability (rings/ammy). You could also be an AH hawk and scout out a 600+ dps weapon with level 50 requirement(reduced), which will cost some $$$. A cheaper route is to go do this with a 2 hander...if you can stand the slow attack speed. Defense doesnt matter a whole lot if you have crowd control/stun/blind abilities and you are 2 hitting everything.

Also, consider skipping A2 all together. My leveling strat is to do butcher runs til 55, then have a friend open a3 quest 1. Doing the first 2 quests alone in act 3 (beacons and catapults) will give you about 3/5 a level of xp at level 55. Extremely fast and safe. Tedious to repeat, but A3 q1 and 2 from 55-60 maximizes safety and speed.

Don't consider using tempest rush or dashing strike for escape moves because it will eventually kill you when it spawns the immortal rubberband boss(helplessly warping back to where you just were multiple times)that leaves you just as helpless vs arcane/desecrator 3 as a 10 second lag spike. That is my preference although the majority of monks use one of these, but it will eventually kill them.
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Melgrath, whats your resistance value at? At Hell/Inferno level, pack your resistance as high as you can afford. Search for Resist <name> + Resist ALL items if you can afford it, then focus stack on 1 resist type with Mantra of healing (Time of Need), and "One with Everything" passive skill.

Its not a sure way for survival at inferno, but it definitely helps in survive better.
Edited by Irrrch#1646 on 7/12/2012 5:29 AM PDT
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I did zk and belial very easily at lvl 57 BUT these were my stats
Life- 38000 with Earth ally
DPS- 5170
Armor- 4600 but 6700 using keen eye
RA- 375 with time of need
So all your stats seem low to me.
Edited by Taushable#1237 on 7/12/2012 6:47 AM PDT
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Posts: 152
1: LOH
2: One with everything. my monk at 46 had 350 AR without any -lvl req gear via cold resist items
3: Seize the initiative. adds roughly 700-1.xk armor (same as your dex)

Okay to be clearer: Use Loh to mitigate damage by outhealing it. Use the 2 passives to increase your mitigation (assuming ar and armor are working correctly atm). Around level 43-44 decide which resist type you want to specialize in and go for it. Around level 54 buy that resist type+AR gear.

E.g. I decided to go cold, so at level 54 I found items with 3x cold, 3x AR (not lvl reduced items).
Decide based on whats the cheapest or which one has the most items. This was ages ago and my monk died to lag and my next monk that was even better died to d3 crash (I tried getting back in asap, but was too late).
Edited by DeathEnergy#1232 on 7/12/2012 5:41 AM PDT
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Awesome, I appreciate all the responses.

Sounds like I need to do a few more runs in Act 1 and then either early act 2, or as mentioned try to get Act 3 Q1 and Q2.

I hadn't spent a ton on gear simply because my stats seemed fairly similar to most SC chars I had leveled, (Have 5 60 SC) but it seems I DRASTICALLY underestimated the defensive capabilities I need for leveling.

Well, chalk those 2 deaths up to ego, I'll roll another one again tonight and see what shakes out. Also for those wondering, build I was using is below.

Edited by Melgrath#1826 on 7/12/2012 5:39 AM PDT
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Ding 60 in Act 2, in the Portals that lead to get ZK's body parts, all those skeletons and other mobs just piled up. Massive exp, without the danger of Act 3. Act 1 gets really slow around lvl 57.

Get about 200-250~ resist all AT least before going past\doing Belial. (Should be easy for monk with OWE)
He won't enrage on you in Hell, but please don't stand in his Puddles.

HP? In hell, HP can be more effective than resists in a few cases, getting it really high if even for farming for Hell can help. 50kHP is the standard bar that many Melees arrive at.

Once you are ready for Inferno, you can start dropping HP for resistances\armor, but just make sure the gear upgrade actually gives you EHP with an EHP calc, or your brain. Whatever you use.

DPS to complete Hell? I did it with like 6k dps. I'd say anywhere between 5-6k would do it just fine.
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90 Human Warrior
Posts: 824
I'm leveling up a wiz got her to 27 in act 3 normal, which I'm so overgeared for because I used the auction house. I know that's trivial compared to you're level 57 monk that you lost. I think hardcore is really great so far and its INTENSE. Im not really qualified to give you expert advice because I have not gotten a character as high lvl as you have in hardcore. One thing that might help when you lvling up a new HC is to use something called and EHP calculator. (Effective Health Calculator) I used this to gear my barbarian in normal inferno mode and I'm even using it now for my HC wiz. Best feature about it is that you can compare to pieces of gear and immediately see which gives you more survivability base on your current stats. Only downside is it doesn't factor in life on hit/life steal, which you should take that into consideration. I feel like most people I talk to have lost their chars when they get vortexed and cornered on some type of ground AOE, so for that reason alone you need at least one escape button constantly on ur action bar, probably two to be safe. I run a stupid wiz melee build right now, but I'll probably use both wave of force and teleport when I get to higher difficulties.
Edited by Bryjoered#1133 on 7/12/2012 6:27 AM PDT
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55-60 in Act 2 is painfully slow- your ability to outgear the content comes to a screeching halt. I'd rather get a buddy or even pay someone to get you into Act 3 and tag along with some 60's doing MF runs.

Otherwise, great advice in the thread, GL on your reroll!
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I don't think you need to powerlevel. I usually do Belial at 57 or 58, and I will say Act 2 Hell is much harder than Act 3/4 Hell, but you should be ok to finish it before 60.

However, you NEED more vitality. 25k seems very low, I would aim for at least 35k or 40k. Are you using Earth Ally and Enchantress armor buff?

Source: Inferno Act 1 lvl 60 Monk
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90 Human Warrior
Posts: 824
Yeah, as cloud said vitality cannot be underestimated. I've learned this first hand on my normal mode barb in act 3 inferno. A lot of times vitality actually adds more to your survivability than resistance, if it's a lot of vitality. Resistance is the best overall mitigation stat followed by every 10+ armor that you get, but its possible to get vit in huge bunches. The added plus is you can often get stuff that actually increases your dps AND survivability for cheaper than a lot of all resist gear. For instance I had some gloves for my barb that were 59 to str 79 vit and 53 resists all with 454 armor. I found gloves in the AH with 183 vit 60 str 156 int and 380 armor, the second pair offered more survivability somehow. On paper I would have never thought that gloves with no resist all and lower armor count would actually be tankier. The key is the EHP calculator I mentioned earlier.
edit: bear in mind that those gloves with 156 int actually effectively have 15.6 resist all due to the int.
Edited by Bryjoered#1133 on 7/12/2012 7:21 AM PDT
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Posts: 211
you need at least 3.5k arm 225ar and 25+k hp to really do desolate sands at 55-56. I play aggressively so those stats aren't for the safe player. Those lacuni champ firebombs hit really hard in desolate sands and you need the resists to block them. A horde pack will easily do you in real fast with even the stats I listed

Currently @ act3 catapults with lvl 58 monk myself.
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There are many good comments on this thread, but for what it's worth, my barbarian is in a very similar place to where you were. I am currently level 54 and just finished up Act 1 in Hell, however my stats at level 54 are a little different:

Health - ~40,000
DPS - ~5,000
Resists - ~125ish
Armor - ~6300

Even with those stats I hardly feel "safe" yet running around in Act 1, and I plan to repeat Act 1 at least once more to get more comfortable with the higher difficulty in Hell.
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90 Human Warrior
Posts: 824
Yeah, I'm building my wiz like my barb and just replacing str with intellect she has almost 4k hp at level 27 which a lot. I don't think there is gear with resists all and/or melee dmg reduction at my level, but as soon as it's available i'm going to pick it up. Not sure, but melee dmg reduction seems to be pretty damn useful enemies hit harder in melee from my experience. I can only think of a couple of times that ranged damage is crushing me and that would be the lacuni guys with their firebombs and the act 2 wasps with their bees. Maybe the succubus in act 3, but I haven't fought them in a long time so I'm not sure. Def better practice to get melee reduction over ranged though in my opinion. You also have to remember all those times you get surrounded by like 20 enemies hitting you in melee, ranged attackers rarely accumlate like that.
It's great that it's such a flat percentage reduction as well, The naga in act 2 inferno hit you for 70k unmitigated dmg that is a !@#$ ton, and that is just the normal white naga.
Edited by Bryjoered#1133 on 7/12/2012 8:35 AM PDT
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Many good pieces of advice here... but I'll echo the comment that your health seems very low. Now personally, I don't like "farming" xp by running the same quest over and over (not against it, I just find it boring), so I typically just play the game straight through, doing each area/quest once as I come to it. So for reference, here's the stats on my monk as he progressed...

Belial - level 57 - 36k health, 128 ar, 4736 armor, 4.4k dps, 160 LoH
Ghom - level 58 - 37k health, 124 ar, 4594 armor, 5.7k dps, 168 LoH
Siegebreaker - level 59 - 38k health, 124 ar, 4598 armor, 5.7k dps, 175 LoH
Azmodan - level 60 - 43k health, 310 ar, 5403 armor, 8.5k dps, 433 LoH
Diablo - level 60 - 43k health, 310 ar, 4699 armor, 8.3k dps, 433 LoH

Skeleton King - level 60 - 42k health, 367 ar, 5997 armor, 8.5k dps, 433 LoH

I use a 12% Life gem in my helm, but not the earth ally. I use the enchantress follower.

Decent jump in stats for azmodan since I picked up a few pieces of cheap armor and a decent "starting" weapon (423 dps) to have when he hit 60.

That's as far as the monk has gone in inferno. Need to do a lot more farming before he progresses any further (there were a couple close calls in those tight corridors of the crypts/cathedral with waller/arcane/etc...)
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