Diablo® III

Since everyone's demanding it, it's official.

07/16/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Wurg
I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but killing stuff and breaking objects has been the thunder of the entire Diablo series. The NPCs are only doings things that there's no way to turn into fun gameplay, which is just how it should be.


This is the story forum. We're talking about the story. Other than the lack of decent diversity, I have very little issue with the gameplay. We want an entertaining story that doesn't make me just tap the space bar every iteration.

07/16/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Wurg
You think this game is about story and deep characters? Oh, isn't that adorable. Now run along and play Final Fantasy MXI or whatever they're at now.


Ironic that I paid the same amount for FFXIII as Diablo 3, no? And it probably had more than an hour of cutscenes and better graphics. And it was all about the story.

07/16/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Wurg
D1 and D2 were both games loved for their great gameplay and dark, pulpy atmosphere. D3 has certainly delivered the gameplay, the atmosphere is still pulpy and sometimes dark. Now take off those rose-colored glasses for a few minutes. If it had been properly executed, would the story of D3 really have been any worse than the stories of D1 and D2? For clarification, if the story had been properly executed:


Only if you take of those X-ray specs that came with the Collector's edition. You can't separate the story from the way it's told. This isn't a book. And the way the story is told is contradictory. Belial is obvious. Azmodan doesn't deliver. Diablo isn't scary in the slightest.

All credit for the intent of the designers and story writers... but the simple fact is they did not deliver a decent story. Perhaps they will flesh them out later with side quests and non-linear story lines, but we can't judge them on that, either.
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/signed.

The diablo series imo ended in D2 LOD with Tyrael's destruction of the worldstone. This "re-imagining" of the lore was so atrocious I'm going to just live with the fact that there will never get a real "next" step in the D2LOD storyline.

Diablo series eneded after the second one.
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This is the story forum. We're talking about the story. Other than the lack of decent diversity, I have very little issue with the gameplay. We want an entertaining story that doesn't make me just tap the space bar every iteration.

Ironic that I paid the same amount for FFXIII as Diablo 3, no? And it probably had more than an hour of cutscenes and better graphics. And it was all about the story.

FFXIII is a story-driven JRPG, of course it has over an hour of cutscenes. Diablo 3 is pure hack and slash, designed to have you coming back for the combat like a narcotics addict comes back for !@#$%^. It is exactly the sort of game where the story is best to learn to sit in a corner and stay out of the way of the main attraction. Until you come to terms with that, you might as well have spent that $60 on FFIX.

Only if you take of those X-ray specs that came with the Collector's edition. You can't separate the story from the way it's told.

It has been observed from stories that are told many different times in many different ways that some tellings are far superior to others (jokes are the easiest example of this; if you tell a joke wrong, you'll get nothing but crickets chirping, tell it right and the room will burst into laughter) So yes, you can separate a story from how it is told.

This isn't a book.

And yet you treat it like one.

The point I'm getting at is that there has been a great deal of overreaction. The story itself isn't bad. If they were so inclined, Blizzard could fix the biggest problems in the story by changing the dialogue and nothing else. If you really cared about the story, and weren't just looking for something to complain about, your interests would be better served by rallying the fanbase to push Blizzard to bring about these dialogue changes.
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07/16/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Wurg
Now take off those rose-colored glasses for a few minutes. If it had been properly executed, would the story of D3 really have been any worse than the stories of D1 and D2? For clarification, if the story had been properly executed:


It would still suck BUTTS. Yea D2 and D1 arent masterpieces, but D3 is worse than a SNL special.

07/16/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Wurg
You think this game is about story and deep characters? Oh, isn't that adorable. Now run along and play Final Fantasy MXI or whatever they're at now


This is pure flaming and invalidates your post. I CARE about the lore of what im going in, would you play this game if it were all about slashing pink rabbits from the space? Dont answer.

/sign

And im my mind I have a completely diff lore. Besides other things, Cain was promoted to Wisdom at the ending.

NON-CANON
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07/16/2012 03:40 PMPosted by Dantallion
It would still suck BUTTS. Yea D2 and D1 arent masterpieces, but D3 is worse than a SNL special.

Really? If Belial had been deceitful, if Azmodan's tactical genius had been obvious and if Diablo had actually been terrifying, what would be wrong with it?

This is pure flaming and invalidates your post. I CARE about the lore of what im going in, would you play this game if it were all about slashing pink rabbits from the space? Dont answer.

I'd play the game if it kept the same gameplay, no matter what they did to the lore. If they did something as ridiculous as pink rabbits, though, I would be in agreement with this whole 'D3 is not canon' thing. I do care about the lore; it bugged me that the male barbarian and witch doctor were nephalem, yet clearly born before the destruction of the Worldstone. The difference between me and you is that I did a bit of research
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07/17/2012 05:16 AMPosted by Wurg
I do care about the lore; it bugged me that the male barbarian and witch doctor were nephalem, yet clearly born before the destruction of the Worldstone. The difference between me and you is that I did a bit of research


Huh? I don't understand, why would their time of birth be at all an indication of them getting their powers back or not? Wouldn't the WD and Barb be slowly getting their powers back like everyone else? I heard that lorebook about the nephalem ghost in the temple talking about his children growing weak, but I assume that hes getting his powers dampened as well.
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The Worldstone caused each generation of nephalem to be weaker than the last until they were nerfed down to human. All signs indicate that now that the Worldstone is destroyed, the power of the nephalem will be restored over multiple generations. Mankind is getting its powers back, but no individuals are; they are either born with it or they are not. The WD and Barb can be explained by the fact that the Worldstone did not prevent all men from being born nephalem: during the Sin War, the hero Uldyssian altered a small bit of the the structure of the Worldstone. This change was made to give humanity a chance to produce heroes that could defend it from angels and demons by allowing a very small number of men to be born with Nephalem powers. Who got nephalem powers and what powers they got was determined by magical genetics. This not only accounts for the D3 Barb and WD, but for the comparatively powerful heroes of D1 and D2 who were nephalem as well.
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Hmmmm... interesting point. I had always gathered that with the destruction of the Worldstone, humanity regained power slowly, disregarding generations.

It's the same reason why you got more powerful as you progressed through the acts (which would not line up with DI or II though).
Edited by Chris#1235 on 7/17/2012 12:18 PM PDT
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You got stronger as you progressed through the acts for the same reason you keep getting stronger through any RPG: slaying monsters is a workout (whether physical or mental), practice technique and opportunity to experiment with one's own powers. Not to mention all that sweet magical loot.
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07/15/2012 01:46 AMPosted by Chris
Tactically, yes it was a sound decision. But the flaw of Heaven is order, as it is chaos in Hell. Imperius was unhappy not at the decision that he made, he was unhappy that Tyrael broke the pact forged during the Sin War that stated that no angel or demon should interfere with Sanctuary.


Tyrael did not break any pacts because no pacts were in effect when he interfered. The demons already broke the pact several times with Diablo raising hell in Sanctuary, Mephisto
corrupting the Zakarum, Baal corrupting the Worldstone.

So the pact was not there since hell never really respected it. Tyrael destroying the stone actually protected heaven, and no pacts were broken.

07/17/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Wurg
You got stronger as you progressed through the acts for the same reason you keep getting stronger through any RPG: slaying monsters is a workout (whether physical or mental), practice technique and opportunity to experiment with one's own powers. Not to mention all that sweet magical loot.


You know you are still on the story forum right? Stuff like people bought it for the gameplay don't really fly here. People who complain here respected the lore enough to give a damn about it. We can talk about how bad the gameplay is and how many bad ideas they put into it but it would be besides the point IN THIS PLACE.

Sweet magical loot? maybe in the AH, all you get ingame is !@#$ that may have been good 10 levels ago. RPG like experience? not bloody likely, as no growth is implied anymore. Reach 60, find a skill set that works stick with it forever. You don't really grow those skills anymore and you don't feel like they matter because you can change them around all the time.
Most are just plain bad, and the ones that do something good have a let down built in, making you realize that that is it, they will not grow to be better.

Real money AH... I don't really have to say anything about this. Paying for items in a game that should be about constant grinding to get that marginally better item is just stupid. Some guy on youtube quit the game outright after he bought his first real money item, and i do get it why. That can happen on it's own, but buying stuff instead of looking for it ends the game.

So there, some of us have issues even with the "stellar" gameplay. Next time please try and stick to the story.
Edited by Sovereign#1978 on 7/17/2012 1:18 PM PDT
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07/17/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Sovereign
You know you are still on the story forum right? Stuff like people bought it for the gameplay don't really fly here. People who complain here respected the lore enough to give a damn about it. We can talk about how bad the gameplay is and how many bad ideas they put into it but it would be besides the point IN THIS PLACE.

You're missing my point entirely. By virtue of D3 being hack'n'slash, everyone should've known that D3 wouldn't have an outstanding plot, and they should've known that it would be pulpy based on its predecessors. There are complaints about atmosphere and presentation, complaints that they got the pulpiness to darkness ratio wrong, and those are valid complaints. But nonsense like OP is nothing short of complaining about the font of an article in Playboy or going to White Castle and complaining that your burger is more grease than meat.

I NEVER GET GOOD LOOT

Neither do I. I got used to it a while ago. Suck it up, princess. Either stay for the combat, or go jerk off to Final Fantasy MXVI.
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You know you are still on the story forum right? Stuff like people bought it for the gameplay don't really fly here. People who complain here respected the lore enough to give a damn about it. We can talk about how bad the gameplay is and how many bad ideas they put into it but it would be besides the point IN THIS PLACE.

You're missing my point entirely. By virtue of D3 being hack'n'slash, everyone should've known that D3 wouldn't have an outstanding plot, and they should've known that it would be pulpy based on its predecessors. There are complaints about atmosphere and presentation, complaints that they got the pulpiness to darkness ratio wrong, and those are valid complaints. But nonsense like OP is nothing short of complaining about the font of an article in Playboy or going to White Castle and complaining that your burger is more grease than meat.

This story is bad pulp. I'm not even convinced it's truly a pulpy story given the resources put into it, I think that's more of an excuse to try to pretend it was done on purpose.

In any case, based on Diablo 2, I did not expect a pulpy story. I expected something dark that would stay out of my way and let me kill demons. What we got fit absolutely nothing I expected.

My favorite quote from the definition of "pulpy" that I found: "Badly written stories are badly written stories, whether they are pulp or not!" So a good pulpy story is possible, and is most certainly what we did not get here.
Edited by Bianary#1174 on 7/17/2012 11:22 PM PDT
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Tyrael did not break any pacts because no pacts were in effect when he interfered. The demons already broke the pact several times with Diablo raising hell in Sanctuary, Mephisto corrupting the Zakarum, Baal corrupting the Worldstone.

So the pact was not there since hell never really respected it. Tyrael destroying the stone actually protected heaven, and no pacts were broken.
Hell did indeed break their side of the deal. Very quickly at that. I'm sure there was never any intention of it being different. Once again though, the core flaw of Heaven is order. In a human world, that would have broken the pact, but when dealing with Heaven the story is different. Watch the Sacrifice cinematic again.

Imperius:
Tyrael, the ancient law of the High Heavens strictly forbids us from interfering with the mortal world! Yet you have done so -- brazenly!
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This story is bad pulp. I'm not even convinced it's truly a pulpy story given the resources put into it, I think that's more of an excuse to try to pretend it was done on purpose.

In any case, based on Diablo 2, I did not expect a pulpy story. I expected something dark that would stay out of my way and let me kill demons. What we got fit absolutely nothing I expected.

My favorite quote from the definition of "pulpy" that I found: "Badly written stories are badly written stories, whether they are pulp or not!" So a good pulpy story is possible, and is most certainly what we did not get here.


Again, you're missing the point. You should've looked at D3 and said to yourself "Hm, this game is very action-driven. It is very possible that during development the story was neglected in favor of working on the action. Therefore, I will lower my standards for the story so that I may enjoy the game." But you didn't. You're like a guy who saw dark clouds rolling in and didn't bring an umbrella with him when he went out.

I think that Blizzard bungled its storytelling on this one. But if you are actually unable to play the game because of the story, then the problem lies with you.
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07/16/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Wurg
If you really cared about the story, and weren't just looking for something to complain about, your interests would be better served by rallying the fanbase to push Blizzard to bring about these dialogue changes.


I thought that’s what I was doing…

An in-progress rewrite of the entire story: (getting decent reception)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6079709868#20

And my fan fiction for the entire expansion: (with much better reception)

Chapter 1 Salvation: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5760137530
Chapter 2 Revelation: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5740846676
Chapter 3 Rebirth: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5794090255
Chapter 4 Reunion: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5794080429
Edited by Melancholy#1609 on 7/18/2012 2:59 PM PDT
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at this point its so obvious and its been furthermore highlighted clearly and intelligently on this forum why this story is horrendous that anyone in disagreement is either an idiot, trolling, or someone who never cared much about the story and feel of the D franchise lore
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This story is bad pulp. I'm not even convinced it's truly a pulpy story given the resources put into it, I think that's more of an excuse to try to pretend it was done on purpose.
In any case, based on Diablo 2, I did not expect a pulpy story. I expected something dark that would stay out of my way and let me kill demons. What we got fit absolutely nothing I expected.

My favorite quote from the definition of "pulpy" that I found: "Badly written stories are badly written stories, whether they are pulp or not!" So a good pulpy story is possible, and is most certainly what we did not get here.


Again, you're missing the point. You should've looked at D3 and said to yourself "Hm, this game is very action-driven. It is very possible that during development the story was neglected in favor of working on the action. Therefore, I will lower my standards for the story so that I may enjoy the game." But you didn't. You're like a guy who saw dark clouds rolling in and didn't bring an umbrella with him when he went out.

I think that Blizzard bungled its storytelling on this one. But if you are actually unable to play the game because of the story, then the problem lies with you.


U think theres nothing wrong with the basic design of this game? U can get just enough enjoyment going up to about hell mode I guess.
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07/12/2012 09:26 AMPosted by AscendedOne
Does anyone actually have a problem with the storyline, or just how they have done it? Like their failure with making Belial seem like a good liar, Azmodan a great tactician and Diablo disturbing in any way. I don't think I have any problems with the actual story, just how they have done it.


Yes, I have a problem with teh actual story. Its awful at almost every point. Strip out everything that's bad about it and there's literally nothing left.

Too lazy to link all the places I've deconstructed teh story in detail before, since I'd have to go find them. This is the only one i know where it is right away: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5626187605
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07/20/2012 02:44 PMPosted by Shingram
at this point its so obvious and its been furthermore highlighted clearly and intelligently on this forum why this story is horrendous that anyone in disagreement is either an idiot, trolling, or someone who never cared much about the story and feel of the D franchise lore


There is a difference between a good story and an enjoyable story. Some people defending the story are doing so because they felt like it was enjoyable, which is perfectly fine because that is their opinion. But, when they say the story is good, is when they are wrong.
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Signed.

The Diablo 3 story was terrible. I feel like the over arching story itself wasn't abysmal, (with a few exceptions) but the way the specifics were handled were absolutely awful.
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