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Yeah several points popped up to me as well...I noticed right from the first few patches in the game. I always wanted to post something like this, but I could never be bothered due to the feeling that it might be pointless or the thread would fill full of hate comments and eventually be drowned out by other pointless threads.
In response to the changing everything that somewhat resembled being fun in Diablo 3:
I do feel like that it's more of a "play our way or not at all" kind of thing going on and that is what is killing the game faster and faster. Everything up until now would be fine if it weren't for that one feeling. Oh I found a way to farm experience and feel more powerful throughout the acts! Awesome! Oh it got nerfed so I can't do it anymore... why? What's the reason? Playing straight through from Act 1 Normal to Act 4 Hell does not get me to level 60 unless I farm experience...yet they nerf the experience farming so it's dreadfully slow. Wish I knew a valid reason for it. That is one post I would love to see is a valid reasoning to every single nerf and debuff in the game - not another post that implies "because we felt like it".
I fully agree with I want to play a game how I want to play it. I want the powerful feeling back from Diablo 2. Until then it's just play Acts 1-4 normal mode and you've already "beaten" the game. No need to play it any further than that. Achievements and leveling to the max seems like a feeble attempt to add to the almost non-existant replay value.
Some people's fun is smashing vases and getting legendaries. Others by flagging hostile and hunting the ears of their friends. Yet others want to find a goblin in the Underbridge, kill him, make a new game and kill him again and again. Blizzard North got this. Blizzard Activision does not.
Excellent overall post.
Edited by Rumpy#2543 on 7/20/2012 6:21 AM PDT
Your notion of difficulty and fun needs a rethink.Inferno is not difficult. You can spawn champs with every single affix all at once and they're the same as if you spawned them with four. Either you have the gear to drop them in a few seconds or you don't and they drop you unless you're lucky enough to be able to kite (read: Run, Forrest!! Run!!) them. Inferno would be more difficult if mobs were scaled more appropriately with the averagely obtainable loot but there were a much higher mob density.Running away from everything is not fun. Punishment for death beyond having died (and running back) is not fun. Spending hours hunting for loot while running away from things and ultimately getting nothing of value despite not even being Act IV viable is not fun.Endgame is not about beating Inferno.. it's about finding (a) set(s) of perfect items with which you can clear areas faster and faster than last time. That, is fun.
This one really depends on the rewards...
About a decade ago i played a MMOPG that really difficult the dungeon are really huge and at most checkpoint there is a elite mob which is really strong many of us have to coop to kill these elite mobs.
its interesting because although the mob is strong the life bar of the mob dont regen so some weaker players will wait by the safer place which have normal regen every now and than just to have that elite mob clear by more well equipt players. so there can passby these areas and the elite mob does drop good items for the player whom manage to slain it. (cause if you die you go back to the start of the dungeon) lol some ppl find this annoying but i like the challenge...
But there is more... cause at the end of the dungeon which is a long way from the start point there is a boss... this boss have strong attack and a very very very long HP bar... but again the HP bars does not regen... so there are many players trying hard to kill this boss cause this boss will DEFINATELY drop a lengendary item that is what the nae suggest LEGENDARY... when other player see your goods they will be envy off... (not D3 type of lengendaies where i dont really even bother to ID as of now till perhaps Blizzard decide to patched it...) But it will only drop for the person that gets the last hit that kill the boss ( yet again some complaint its not fair but i again like these type of challenge and it also depend on your luck somethng when you reach the boss the HP bar is almost near zero cause some others player have tried and died...
The above is the farming aspect of the game...
There are lots more to the game every thursday there is a Guild War where by the 2 to 4 main guild in the game PVP each other to gain control of the fort which have a place for farming materials and produce more raw materials. Anybody can create a guild but if you dun have enuff members dont dream of winning guild war.. (double the normal general farming area) So once your guild win the PVP at the end of the hour long event all your guid members will be entitle entry to this fort for one week till the next guild war... There are also mini dungeon inside the fort for farming of gears its so cool... its like your guild won a lottery... and you are proud to be in it.. This game mechanics also have some betrayer element involved as some member will jump ship just to be in the fort this adds fun to the game too.. (and mind you i'm not talking about 4 to 5 player max in the war its like over a few hundred on each server i really dont know how this can work out but it did.. although there are some latency issues but gameplay is still fluid...
Than there is farming of raw materias to make your own house, car and gear... (ya Car... Lol car allow you to travel faster thru dungeon to reach boss destination for farming purposed... Although u will still get corner and die to mobs if you arent careful or drive recklessly haha) Once you constructed your house u can throw anything on the floor and your visitor can see whats on the floor but can't pick up the items this is also a showoff aspect of the game and it also act as extra slash for your gears and materials (you can either set it to open to public or only selected friend can access to your house.. Also there always decorative upgrade for your house so there are many things to do in the game...
There is also area whereby PK is allow these areas produce more raw materials when farming but you risk being PK by rival guild members ( this methol discorage bot farming cause the bot will just get killed by Pkers...) and this adds to the thrill of farming at PK permited areas... sometime PKing escalate to non schedule guild wars which is also so entertaining...
There is also a PVP arena where you can invite anyone of your friends or rival guld members for a 1 on 1 death match... this is really cool too.
But atlas i dunno what happen to the company the game was discontinue... its sad cause in this type of MMORPG there is really so much things to do and so much play time involve it really addicting...
And the coolest thing in the game is there are GM online 24/7 anyone can PM the GM to report bug or bots and the GM will spawn in front of you to check your complaints... GM are also given freehand to conduct mini events like special mobs/gear hunting event beside the weekly annouce special event... which make you wanna always be online so as not to miss any cool mini event.. Sometimes the mobs that GM create are so strong that the GM themself will help players fight it... and its really fun to see the GM skilles and power...cause there all weld LEGENDARIES SETS ITEMS...
Perhaps if D3 can get some aspect of the above game mechanics and improved on the present game..
Edited by SuBzEr0#6792 on 7/20/2012 7:35 AM PDT
Thank you Joules for taking the time to feedback to Mike. I concur with all you have said and will add one more thing,
You're welcome and thank you for supporting the post. I hope they understand that most of us really want this game to succeed and be fun to play for years to come. The thing is it feels like they are trying to be ALL things to ALL people and I don't know that any game or developer could successfully BE that. You cannot be a great single player ARPG AND be a legit vehicle for people to sell loot for real money. It's just the most insane conflict of interest (especially when you as the developer stand to profit off loot sales) in terms of design goals that anyone could imagine.
But I don't think they fully realized this or how it could be exploited or ruin the game until it launched and they saw the effect of it on a massive scale in terms of the crowd trying to make money of RMAH and the loyalist D1-2 gamers who just wanted to play their old love Diablo and get set items and legendaries in a fashion that bared some resemblance to the previous Diablo's the knew and loved.
And now here they are post launch with Diablo 3 designed and built from the ground up to be online and RMAH centric and that formula is not working. It's like discovering the foundation of your house has a massive crack, one too big to simply patch because the house is totally unstable because of it...how do you fix it without taking down the house?
Making the AH a fully integrated part of the game has psychologically ruined the effort / reward equation that made previous Diablo's fun and rewarding to play because no matter what loot you may eventually be lucky enough to find, there will ALWAYS be better on the AHs. And more often than not you will not be able to progress into Inferno very far at all without shopping there. Making a purchase on the AH is not fun or rewarding in the least in terms of the 'thrill' or adrenaline rush people are looking for from gaming. The ZING you felt when a rare or legendary dropped in D2 is completely absent in D3, not just because these legendaries are sub par at best but because the item budgets of the rares are so messed up that the odds are greatly in favor of that rare being total and complete vendor food. That's not fun. People don't keep playing games that aren't fun.
So the big question and proverbial elephant in the design room is this: Is it even possible to make the loot drops rewarding enough for the solo player to play the game all the way through to killing Diablo on Inferno AND successfully (and in reasonable time, not a day but not 6 months either) farm up all of their own gear upgrades if they so choose?
Truly, if what Blizzard says is true, this should be the BASELINE starting point for the loot RNG & item budgets. Then if people want to fast-track it by using the AH to make themselves GODS of the arena so to speak ahead of their leveling curve so be it. IF that is FUN to them, let them have at it and who cares. I don't care how others want to play this game, I want to play the way I want to and let others do the same.
More of these issues would have been brought to light pre-launch if Blizzard had opened up a REAL full beta to more of their loyal fans and gamers rather than that Act 1 Light DEMO they called Beta. How on earth are any loot issues supposed to come to light rolling up to level 13?
I appreciate Mike not wanting to throw his team under the bus and say "Yeah so and so sure screwed up" but I also don't think that means you completely ignore or try to gloss over the many critical flaws and bad decisions that were made along the way and not accept responsibility for having made them as a company and then committing to fixing them. I get it, sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees and perhaps the issue is they were too close to see the things that came to light post launch. But stop pretending the problems don't exist or are just minor issues not worth talking about. The game has fundamental flaws we know it, do they?
I think he would win far and away more goodwill, patience and forgiveness if he did just own up to, "You know what guys, we got some things wrong, hind sight is 20/20 but were gonna work with you to make this right." Then the community could rally around the group effort of the 'getting it right' piece of this scenario rather than still shouting at the wall "Do you even hear us and know what's really wrong???" only to get a blank stare back or "Well yeah our servers were a little over loaded at launch, but nobody's perfect."
I feel the need to bump this post because it expresses the concerns of the gamer I think Blizzard was trying to build D3 for. Please, someone at Blizzard read this and realize your 'legendary buffs' and 'class diversity' aren't the underlining problems, they're only a small piece of the pie.
Edited by Xinil#1686 on 7/20/2012 11:10 AM PDT
Blizz please nerf the demon hunter and magician as they have a better chance to progress through Inferno than my poor barbarian. Monk is okay cause he's also melee and dies probably just as often as the barb. The game needs more balance. Why should some people have less frustration playing it just because they play a different character? We should all be in the same sinking boat :D
Pots and chest were supposed to be nerfed but I occasionally find some gold and a mostly decent item now and again. Please fix that. This inconsistancy will not stand. Ah D3 the game we all love ... ... to hate :)
Ok jokes aside. I just wanted to add some personal thoughts:
Now the only place I get entertainment and fun regarding this "game" is reading the D3 forums :) All you posters over here are great! Players trying their best to help Blizzard by pointing out the essential faults of the game practically doing their job for them and getting ignored.
There is so much humor and witty banter going on that I got addicted to checking the pages daily :)It's so emotional and funny at the same time. I don't care about the game any more or the money I threw away to play my "dream" game.
Cheers to all you guys keep up those great posts and sorry for my poor grammar and spelling if noticed. I'm a european and english isn't my first language plus on top of that I'm also a bit lazy ;)
As for the rest of your post pretty much in agreement but please consider revising one part of it.
As someone who got the opportunity to get out of the made of cardboard glasscannon build and actuallly saw inferno act 3 before and after, i don't think you realize how much this patch helped. IF YOU WERENT IN ACT 3 BEFORE/AFTER THE NERF(this obviously applies to you op or your going off idiotic other bandwagon jumping opinions. FOR THE LOVE OF FREAKING GOD STOP COMMENTING HOW AWFUL THIS PATCH WAS, YOU HAVE NO FING CLUE, how much easier this made survivability, and added to build diversity choices... AS for the pots/chests etc. relating to this i completely agree.
And saying loot tables got nerfed is utter garbage. the issue is perecption. Good example went back and looked at what a chest i sold for 12 million before was worth. found an equivalent for 250k on the ah today., correctly priced, the economy problem is most perception and player driven fail @ the auction house.
Edited by Osirisis#1959 on 7/20/2012 12:01 PM PDT
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