Diablo® III

Sanctuary has infinite potential unless...

LittleDisco, if balance between good and evil has to remain at all times, it would be wise to. Otherwise Trag'Oul could theoretically destroy Sanctuary; seeing it as a necessity to conserve balance in the Diablo universe. If evil is wiped out for good, then good becomes to prevalent and upsets the balance preserved by Trag'Oul. http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Trag'Oul
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So, you're basically telling that Trang-Oul is sitting back and watching good and evil fight to the death, and he plans on killing the winner. So there would be balance?
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Or he would intervene in some way to reestablish order. I never said he HAD to kill the winner.
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Posts: 996
I was under the impression from some of the dialogue in the Sin War trilogy that only the Prime Evils were actually capable of being reborn after they died.
Other entities could only come back from death if they were resurrected somehow, like by a necromancer.
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And I refer to Diablo coming back from the Abyss after his Soulstone was destroyed.

Even a soulstone being destroyed does not keep a Demon's soul permanently there.


A temporary banishment that can be violated at the earliest convenient opportunity without consequence is called freedom. So, if what you say is true, then destroying the soulstone actually freed them, not banish them.

And you're telling me that Tyreal and Cain, in all their wisdom thought it was a better idea to free them than to leave them imprisoned in their stones?


I'm starting to wonder if you have any intelligence in that brain of yours.

Destroying the soul stones was their only option because Diablo, Mephisto and Baal corrupted their soul stones. Because of this, they were able to spread their influence. This was taught to them by Izual.

Sending them to the Black Abyss, even for awhile, is still banishment. They can't do anything while in the Abyss. That's a lot less than being able to corrupt the soulstone that they were in. Not too mention that it takes a lot for them to be able to claim a physical host.
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07/27/2012 06:22 AMPosted by MykeC
I'm starting to wonder if you have any intelligence in that brain of yours.


This statement is an admission of defeat. No need for the ad hominem.

Destroying the soul stones was their only option because Diablo, Mephisto and Baal corrupted their soul stones. Because of this, they were able to spread their influence. This was taught to them by Izual.


There are plenty of ways to dispose of a soulstone in a way that is inconvenient/impractical to recover. For example, you can drop it to the bottom of the ocean where it'll take another couple hundred years of technologic advances to be able to recover it. Alternatively, you could bury it in a defunct mine, and then collapse the mine, so it would only be posible to recover with mining machinery and dozens of people working for months. These are possible alternatives to destroying the soulstone to free them.

They were able to spread their influence because they were not properly contained--Diablo and Mephisto were in populated areas, with their soulstones in convenient easy-to-access locations. Baal was properly contained, because he could not escape without help. Diablo and Mephisto were not properly contained.

The point is this: destroying it is not the only option. By destroying it, you lose track of the very thing you wanted to contain. Yes, there is always the risk of them escaping as long as their soulstone exists, but destroying it is a guarantees escape. The initial attempt to contain Diablo and Mephisto failed because they didn't take into account the additional risk from the corruption--since Tyreal now knows about it, he was in a position to contain them with improved containment procedures.

Sending them to the Black Abyss, even for awhile, is still banishment. They can't do anything while in the Abyss. That's a lot less than being able to corrupt the soulstone that they were in. Not too mention that it takes a lot for them to be able to claim a physical host.


They would rather have the demon temporarily banished for 20 years, than to try containment again and maybe get another 200 years (more if they do their job right)?

Apart from that, what would have happened if they had smashed the Black Soulstone, would that have killed the Prime Evils? If not, then why did they want to smash it? Is it because they wanted to banish them again? But, then why tag them to pull them out of banishment just to banish them again?

The plot of this game really is incoherent, and any attempts to explain it end up opening up more plot holes than they solve. It is actually easier to leave the plot hole as "Diablo and Mephisto are dead, but show back up for some reason" than to turn it into "destroying the soulstone doesn't kill the demon, but Tyreal and Cain think it's a good idea to destroy the one thing that's containing the demons for some reason."
Edited by LittleDisco#1482 on 7/27/2012 12:02 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,198
There are plenty of ways to dispose of a soulstone in a way that is inconvenient/impractical to recover. For example, you can drop it to the bottom of the ocean where it'll take another couple hundred years of technologic advances to be able to recover it. Alternatively, you could bury it in a defunct mine, and then collapse the mine, so it would only be posible to recover with mining machinery and dozens of people working for months. These are possible alternatives to destroying the soulstone to free them.


I'm going to say that if you left it unguarded in either location, that demons would be able to recover it within a month. I do not think that they'd need technology, just an idea of where the soulstone was. Perhaps they can get gills through magic or something, or maybe Diablo can influence nearby wildlife as well as humans.

The point is this: destroying it is not the only option. By destroying it, you lose track of the very thing you wanted to contain.


And you don't think that you'd lose track of it if you threw it to the bottom of the ocean?

Apart from that, what would have happened if they had smashed the Black Soulstone, would that have killed the Prime Evils? If not, then why did they want to smash it? Is it because they wanted to banish them again? But, then why tag them to pull them out of banishment just to banish them again?


The Black Soulstone was different, it was made by what was essentially a mad scientist. It did have that power while the other soulstones didn't.

They were able to spread their influence because they were not properly contained--Diablo and Mephisto were in populated areas, with their soulstones in convenient easy-to-access locations.


Wasn't Tristram only colonized after they completely forgot Diablo was down there?
Edited by Ascendedone#1637 on 7/27/2012 1:03 PM PDT
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I'm going to say that if you left it unguarded in either location, that demons would be able to recover it within a month. I do not think that they'd need technology, just an idea of where the soulstone was. Perhaps they can get gills through magic or something, or maybe Diablo can influence nearby wildlife as well as humans.

And you don't think that you'd lose track of it if you threw it to the bottom of the ocean


Of course, keeping in mind that Baal was basically left unguarded in a tomb of the desert, until Diablo just kind of walked in there and freed him. Seeing how they didn't recover Baal within a month, I'd say leaving a soulstone unguarded in an inconvenient location is a possibility.

The Black Soulstone was different, it was made by what was essentially a mad scientist. It did have that power while the other soulstones didn't.


You being up another excellent plot hole. Why can the mad scientist make a soulstone that can possibly kill a demon, while the Angels with all the resources of Heaven couldn't?
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Posts: 1,198
Of course, keeping in mind that Baal was basically left unguarded in a tomb of the desert, until Diablo just kind of walked in there and freed him. Seeing how they didn't recover Baal within a month, I'd say leaving a soulstone unguarded in an inconvenient location is a possibility.


Well, there wasn't enough of a demonic force in the area to rescue him. Moving Diablo and Mephisto's Soulstone could have been a risk. They may have been able to influence others over the transfer time. It may have been a nessicesity to secure them as fast as possible.

You being up another excellent plot hole. Why can the mad scientist make a soulstone that can possibly kill a demon, while the Angels with all the resources of Heaven couldn't?


Hes willing to do what angels wont and hes a Nephalem. The angels were also a bit occupied by the eternal conflict. He may have also had access to different resources then the Angels.

Edit: Tyrael can be quoted saying that Angels believe they know everything. This causes them to have a lack of curiousity and would not search for something they didn't believe existed, like a way to kill Diablo, permanently.
Edited by Ascendedone#1637 on 7/28/2012 2:23 AM PDT
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if their souls were banished into the black abyss, how did adria collected mephisto and diablo's soul?
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07/29/2012 08:20 AMPosted by Andaphelmor
if their souls were banished into the black abyss, how did adria collected mephisto and diablo's soul?


Adria only marked their souls, so they never went to the black abyss and as soon as the black soulstone was completed they were absorbed into it.
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Posts: 686
07/25/2012 03:03 PMPosted by LittleDisco
I didn't state that at all, please stop putting words into my mouth.


I found my proof on the website that you provided.

The Black Abyss is not where Demon Souls go to die. The Black Abyss is where Demon Souls are spawned from. I never said that he was permanently banished either. He was merely banished from Sanctuary. It's never stated that this banishment was permanent.


"Now his corrupt Soulstone has to be destroyed at the only possible place: the Hellforge, in order to banish Mephisto's enraged spirit back into the Black Abyss and to prevent him from manifesting into the world of Sanctuary ever again. "
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Hell%27s_Forge

This statement from the website is actually a paraphrase of what Deckard Cain says when he gives you the quest: "The time has come for you to destroy Mephisto's Soulstone! Take the Stone to the Hellforge. Place it upon the forge and strike it soundly with the Hammer. Only by doing this can you prevent Mephisto from manifesting in this world ever again."

"the Abyss is where demons are actually spawned from and where they return to when they die."
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Abyss

I shouldn't have to spell this out, but I probably have to. If destroying the soulstone at Hellforge prevents them from being able to manifest in the world ever again, that means their banishment to the Black Abyss is permanent, because they won't be able to respawn out of the Black Abyss or else would be manifesting in the world again.

For the purposes of the story, having Mephisto permanently banished is functionally identical to having Mephisto killed.


my understanding from reading that is that it would prevent them from returning back to sanctuary. Doesn't say anything about preventing them from respawning back in the burning hells after a period of time.
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^
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