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Announcement
Major changes to Pet Doctors. Check out the patch notes. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6368188147#2 Pet Buffs
Pet Nerfs (Procs majorly nerfed)
Force Armor Do not be misled by the example given on the Preview: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923459/Patch_104_Preview_Witch_Doctor-8_16_2012 Ignoring passive Life regeneration, this means each Zombie Dog will always be able to take at least 5.5 hits (21,200 [Life] / 3850 [damage]) This is not an accurate example! The example uses really bad armor and resistances, at 45% and 30% damage reduction respectively. The example closely resembles a glass-cannon Witch Doctor which focuses mostly on dps. For them, the zombie dog taking 5.5 hits to die is a pretty good deal. But for someone who focuses strongly on armor and resistances, dogs will take more than 20 hits to die. Example of dog survivability using my stats (check my profile): Damage Reduction from armor: 70.58% Damage Reduction from Resistances: 74.78% Dog base health: 10,000 Max damage dog will take per hit= 10,000 * 0.2942 * 0.2522 = 741 20% damage reduction from Jungle Fortitude = 741 * 0.8 = 593.58 Dog modified health: 10,000 + (35% of player 10,000 health) = 13,500 Dogs will take 13,500/594 = 22 hits to die. Dogs will only take 594 damage per hit with my stats in 1.0.4. They will take more than 20 hits to die, way more than the 5.5 given in the example. I also have 2381 life regeneration, so in theory, their life shouldn't even take a dent until 4 mobs start to attack each dog. Current theory is, there is no change in gear stats priority. Best defensive stats are still to increase your damage reduction by stacking armor/resistances, then stack Life Regeneration. But that is just a theory, please share your findings if you disagree with this theory. __________________________________________ This thread contains useful information about pets, including how to make them survive more than one hit. Yes, pets can survive in Inferno. Feel free to suggest any useful information to be added. TLDR Version: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6246946715#2 Terihlon#1660 wants to test a 4-Witch Doctor CC-fest for Inferno Act 3. If interested, please add him to your friends list. Updates 17th August: Witch Doctor 1.0.4 patch preview. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923459/Patch_104_Preview_Witch_Doctor-8_16_2012 Table of Contents 1. My Pets Die In 1 Hit. Pets Suck! 2. Basic Information of Pets 3. The CC Build 4. Inferno Mode 1. My Pets Die In 1 hit. Pets Suck! No they do not suck. This is a very common misconception about our pets that happens due to wrong gear, and it is precisely why this guide was created to clear this up. Pets currently need some buffs but they are not as useless as people claim. The reason why your pets are dying is because your gear does not have defensive stats to benefit them. Witch Doctors instinctively stack intelligence to increase their damage. They naturally ignore defensive stats. The problem is our pets scale off our defensive stats like armor and dodge, and because your gear lacks them, that is why they are dying. To make your pets survive better, stack things that will make YOU survive better, like strength (improves armor), dexterity (improved dodge), intelligence (improves resistances), armor, resistances and Life Regeneration. Vitality and Block do not benefit your pets. With proper gear, it is possible for your pets to survive comfortably up to Inferno Act 1. They can survive in Acts 2, 3 and 4 but it will be difficult. Pets currently cannot work against bosses like Belial and Ghom. 2. Basic Information of Pets Approximate Health of Pets at Level 60 Dog = ~11000 life (11355.85 according to data mining sites) Gargantuan = ~31500 life (32445.3 according to data mining sites) Defensive Stat Priority Note: The ideal ratio of Armor to Resistances is 10:1. Don't follow this rule, use it as a guide. E.g. 7500 armor and 750 resistances has the same overall damage reduction as 6000 armor and 926 resistances. 7500 armor and 750 resistance is slightly more efficient, but it is not necessarily easier to aim for than 6000 armor and 926 resistances.
Optional Defensive Stats
Offensive Stat Priority
3. The CC Build Warning: Procs from Witch Doctor spells will be majorly nerfed in patch 1.0.4. This build will no longer be as effective. The CC Build was discovered during brainstorming in the previous thread as people tried to make the Witch Doctor's pets work in Inferno. CC stands for "Crowd Control", which is something that temporarily disables an enemy like stun or freeze. The CC Build thus involves stacking CC stats in order to apply lots of CCs to enemies. The small % chance of CCs like stun and freeze are deceptive, because the Witch Doctor can make it happen like 80% of the time. This is due to the unique fact that the Witch Doctor has pets, and can generate relatively more hits than other classes through them. The Witch Doctor can apply CCs through his spells, his pet attacks, and his pet auras. With the CC build, a single boss can even CCed so much that he barely gets out an attack, resulting in a slow but safe victory. The CC build should also work well in co-op games because ranged classes like the wizard and the demon hunter will enjoy safely killing enemies from a distance while your pets tank and CC them. CCs From Gear Not all gear can have all possible CCs. Most of the item slots can have only one possible CC, with the exception of weapons and off-hands which can have all types. Here are the CCs that you can get from gear. It is not necessary to get all, but the more the better because certain enemies are immune to certain CCs.
Important CCs
Optional CCs
Abilities to Use Not all spells have the same chance to make a CC happen. Some abilities can make CCs happen more than others. The chance to apply CCs seems to loosely follow the numbers found in the Witch Doctor Life Leech Per Hit, By Skill thread by Karisu. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271499223 Important Abilities and Runes
Optional Abilities and Runes
Recommended Passive Skills
Optional Passive Skills
Recommended Follower
4. Inferno Mode This section will attempt to guide you with a CC build in Inferno Mode. For Inferno Mode, enemy damage and defenses are increased, but their damage is increased far more than their defenses. This means that ironically, your damage is the key to your pets survival, where the best defense is a good offense comes to mind. You kill enemies long before they can kill your pets. Keep in mind that Inferno is the hardest difficulty mode and it is not possible to steamroll it unless you have superior gear. You are still expected to die despite your best efforts, but it is not impossible. Ways to Combat Elite Affixes
Act 1 Here are the bare minimum numbers that I had to beat the Butcher in Inferno Mode. It is recommended to get higher numbers, but if it is too expensive, it is still possible to beat the Butcher. Entry-Level Numbers
Abilities
Passive Skills
Follower
Strategy The main strategy of the CC build is to CC-lock your mobs to death. This build should be effective against 99% of normal mobs, simple Champions and bosses, so they are not an issue. Champion Packs Against Champion Packs with strong aoe combinations like plagued, molten, electrified and frozen, you have to semi-kite them. You cannot CC lock them because your pets cannot survive too much aoe damage from them, and you have to keep moving away in order to force them to move out of dangerous aoe. While you are moving away, the Champions will try to move towards you. During that brief kiting process, your pets are still attacking them, and their damage is pretty good if you have at least 10,000 damage. But you should try to stop and throw a few fire bombs at them to help out your pets. Your pets will still die with this strategy, but you must keep kiting till the cooldown is up to re-summon them. It is possible to kill most champions before the "Out of time" debuff appears, even those with Extra Health modifier. Use Horrify to chase away Champions that reach you, or use them for the huge armor bonus once you know your pets is about to take heavy damage, like frozen orbs materializing or a plague pool is spawned. Use Spirit Walk to escape dangerous situations. Hex will occasionally heal your pets and also hex any Champion that gets near you. Butcher Stay in melee range. By staying in melee range, you will prevent him from doing his hook which is followed up by a hook smash. You may survive it, but your dogs won't. And you need your dogs alive in order to CC lock him. In melee range, he will just do his normal melee attack and a rabbit-hop followed by a smash. Always position him so that he is facing away from his pets, so that when his charge happens, it won't hit any of your pets. If 10,000 damage is not be enough before the entire room fills with fire (soft enrage), you can swap out Hex and Horrify for other damage abilities. In order to compensate for the low suggested stat numbers, you have to be more pro-active in avoiding damage and keeping your pets alive in Inferno. Obviously bigger numbers are better and will make life easier. Act 2 This setup can get you to Kulle. Numbers
Abilities
Passive Skills
Follower
Strategy The bees at the start are probably the most difficult mobs in the game due to their bullets which should be avoided. Strategically use Horrify, Spirit Walk and even Big Bad Voodoo to help your pets last a few seconds of those bullets. Zoltun Kulle Zoltun Kulle is as easy as elites, except for his ceiling debris and tornadoes. At the start, use Big Bad Voodoo and position yourself in such a way that both you and your pets are in it. Kill the 2 golems first. You should survive almost anything that Kulle throws at you while Big Bad Voodoo lasts. After Big Bad Voodoo expires, if you see tornadoes, quickly move away. Tornadoes will kill your pets quickly. If Horrify and Spirit Walk are ready, use them to move away faster. Once both golems are dead, pin Kulle against a wall and CC/dps as normal. Move away from tornadoes if they appear. Belial Currently I do not know the strategy to beat Belial with the pet CC build. I had to switch to spamming zombie bears to beat him.
Edited by Peter#1403 on 8/21/2012 11:20 AM PDT
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Summary (TLDR)
Pet Health Dog = ~11000 life (11355.85 according to data mining sites) Gargantuan = ~31500 life (32445.3 according to data mining sites) Do Stats Benefit Pets? Defensive Stats
Offensive Stats
Defensive Stat Priority
Optional Defensive Stats
Offensive Stat Priority
Can Pets Be Healed? (must take Fierce Loyalty Skill) From Stats
From Abilities
From Passive Skills
CC Information CCs From Gear
Important CCs
Optional CCs
Important Abilities for CC Build
Optional Abilities for CC Build
Recommended Passive Skills for CC Build
Optional Passive Skills for CC Build
Recommended Follower
Edited by Peter#1403 on 8/5/2012 11:38 PM PDT
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Testimonials of Pet Performance in Inferno Mode
Diablo http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6246946715?page=5#88 weesheng Useful Links and Sources Old Versions Of This Thread http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271500086 Research Data http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5594214282 Version 1.0 http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978460209 Version 2.0 Comprehensive Witch Doctor Build Guide http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4927183159 Witch Doctor Life Leech Per Hit, By Skill http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271499223 Blue Post Hinting At Plans To Buff Pets. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271506353?page=19#366 Explanation of Stats http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5594214282?page=2#28
Edited by Peter#1403 on 8/11/2012 1:36 AM PDT
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Great guide by Peter and a must-read for all Witch Doctors regardless of whether you use pets or not. His guide is a excellent source of information for:
- Pets in general - Proc effects - What effects stack on pets - Basic entry level requirements for each inferno act Thumbs up for the effort and sticky requested |
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Great guide as always hope this one gets sticky.
just a few notes, i noticed d3lexicon and other datamining homepages has the pets hp data so here are the correct values. zombie dogs has exactly 11355.85 HP and gargantuan has 32445.3 HP the estimate by trial and error is very close tho. one other thing i have never seen spider queen proc CC effects on anything the jar hit does tho. its still great for stacking Bleed and LoH hits tho. hopefully patch 1.0.4 will bring some love to out pets HP and maybe aoe survivability. im pretty much hoping fierce loyality gets built in to the pets as standard.
Edited by Vomica#2555 on 8/5/2012 11:32 PM PDT
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Thanks for the more accurate pet health numbers. Gonna update the guide.
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one other thing i have never seen spider queen proc CC effects on anything the jar hit does tho. I can vouch for that Spider Queen dont Proc CC other than the jar, as i have test it before. I also agreed that Spider is Great for Stacking Bleed / LOH since it can't be killed Critical Hit Chance: Yes (increases pet crit chance) Hi Peter, I have done test on the Critical Hit / Critical Hit Damage, i have done some test and test show that it does not increase Pet Damage for CC & CD,or there are at a very high reduction (95% or higher) Maybe other CC Pet user can test & clarify on this area. Also request for sticky, this is 1 of the main guide that i use for information since Guide v1.0 and it been a great help to my WD itemization |
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i'm not of the same opinion of the inheritance of LoH on pets: I saw my dogs health's flicker up and down fast without health regeneration and fiercy loyalty, I had in that moment only LoH...and at the level 40 they can't regenerate so fast without that passive, i think...
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Zombie Dogs do not have any default life regen or any way to heal themselves, unless you picked the leaching beast rune (particularly with thorns).Gargantuan has some life regen on default. Did you by chance pick up any health globes? They do benefit from that.
Edited by weesheng#1611 on 8/6/2012 8:13 AM PDT
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@BaRaBBa
LoH does not heal pets. It used to a long long time ago, but you had to take a passive for that. Blizz deemed it a bug and so fixed it in a patch soon after. Only way to heal pets now is to get health regen and take up the fierce loyalty passive. Of course you can also pick up health globes(since they heal allies and pets) or just used the leeching beasts rune for your zombie dogs. That said, LoH is relatively important for pet builds, because of how much it heals you when it procs. This assuming you pick up the aoe runes for pets. Reason pets can survive with a CC build in inferno, is not because of the LoH but because of the CC procs you can get with the aoe runes. When the mobs get cc-ed, their attacks either stop, get interrupted or get delayed, so this effectively means your pets take 0 damage from that mob. Now if you built your WD properly, you can chain CC quite a bunch of mobs at the same time, including elites and bosses. This is how pet builds survive up to inferno act 3(or act 4 if the rumors of a few players completing the game with a pet build holds true)
Edited by NightCross#6873 on 8/6/2012 8:43 AM PDT
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Remember to thumb up and click Request Sticky guys.
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dunno if any of you proctologists have seen this, but i was in a pub group vs. maghda in inferno and had her proc locked to the point that her health bar froze and the group could do no more damage until we let off her and let her do the whole shield/summon sequence she does.
had to call the dogs off a coupla times to let her do her thing, she was stuck at 50% health for over a minute before i realized what was happening. anybody else seen this? do any other bosses or enemies bug out like that? |
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i know, but i didnt pick up any globe, really.
@nightcross while bug? that they cant inherit LoH? I'm using that build, but when I saw it i had no CC, no more dodge, and no that passive skill (so no health regeneration on pets)
Edited by BaRaBBa#2818 on 8/6/2012 12:42 PM PDT
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dunno if any of you proctologists have seen this, but i was in a pub group vs. maghda in inferno and had her proc locked to the point that her health bar froze and the group could do no more damage until we let off her and let her do the whole shield/summon sequence she does. Yup, have noticed this before. Essentially, CCing her resets her animation/timer to activate her shield and summon the adds. If your CC is high enough, she essentially cannot get her shield off. This happens at the 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4 health mark and she is invulnerable until she activates her shield. Easiest way is to simply walk to the other side of the map, unfortunately it does not always work as it seems she will prioritise following you to a certain distance before activating her shield. Edit: @Sam Your gear is seriously sick! Just like to inform everyone profile pages are up, so no need for external screenshots anymore.
Edited by weesheng#1611 on 8/6/2012 1:21 PM PDT
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CC also bugs siegebreaker.
If you get picked up by him, and your pets continue to CC, it will interrupt his sequence but he will not let go. You will stay alive, he will die slowly until enrage. Only thing you can do is dismiss a few pets. Its pretty funny. Whats new in 3.0??? And-- I'd be up for some 4 CC pet WD's in act 3 now!
Edited by warc#1512 on 8/6/2012 1:24 PM PDT
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still in act 2 but i'm down for 4 CC pet WD as well, so if any of the pre-med docs are looking for a proc party, just send me an invite with something about procs or pets in the message and we'll get busy.
oh, and veterans, please yell at me about my gear/build! What gear do I need? What should I replace Spirit Vessel with once I stop dying all the dang time? YOU BE THE JUDGE/JURY/EXECUTIONER! http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/capntao-1291/hero/3830541 hopefully i'll be able to trick out my bling if the set ring i found last night pulls me any gp from the ah. |
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dunno if any of you proctologists have seen this, but i was in a pub group vs. maghda in inferno and had her proc locked to the point that her health bar froze and the group could do no more damage until we let off her and let her do the whole shield/summon sequence she does. yep i have seen the exact same thing, as well as siegebreaker can't drop it's victim. |
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Great guide P. Been following it since hitting Inferno. Using these tactics got Act I on farm even in full MF gear. Act II is fine as well, just not in MF set up. The only question I have is how on earth are you cats getting the mixture of stats that you are posting? "X" amount of health WITH "X" dex WITH "X" Life regen, etc. I've been trying to get the recommended minimums for progression and just can't seem to reach all of them. There is always a sacrafice for one over the other. If anyone can help out with gear selection, especially in terms of actually being able to kill something in ACT III, it would be appreciated.
(BTW, using standard CC/Pet Build from above) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Cullagan-1954/hero/3133132 Also, normally online for several hours a day if you want an invite. |
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I dont know how this isnt a sticky yet...and I'm not sure how this hasnt made front page yet either....but Peter, and everyone else involved in the creation of this wonderful series of guides...THANK YOU SO MUCH! You alone have enabled me to want to play my WD way more than I do/should. WD are one of the most fun and interesting class available and I cant wait to see what they do with the improvments to be had in 1.04.
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