Diablo® III

Witch Doctor Pet Guide (Patch 1.0.4) - old

@Peter

So that does support the theory that Gargs have a passive regen that scales to their hp. Good to know.


Actually no it doesn't. :P

Force Armor will absorb a fixed amount of damage because it is capped to the Gargantuan's base health. If the Gargantuan's base life regeneration is scaled to their total health, the Gargantuan that I summoned when I had 20,016 life should regenerate faster.
Edited by Peter#1403 on 8/25/2012 12:22 PM PDT
am i reading this correctly? wouldn't it just mean that the regen is a % and not a flat value?
Hmm Nox asked a question about Force Armor, and it was answered by a blue.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6397850360#2

So force armor is ineffective against "rapid attacks".

Not only that, this guy seem to be on to something.

This was my suspicion as well, and it appears to be accurate. I had 17k life and my dogs were getting 1 shotted by those skeletons with the axes in a3, now I have like 22k and they once again are immortal.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6397850360?page=2#23

If that's true, Vitality is more important.


I hope they fix that rapid hit issue soon.

And I'm not exactly sure how force armor works on the Wizard. I've read it before, but forgot exactly how it works. Damn complicated mechanics. But it would be disheartening if it was limited to how much total health dogs have :/ getting your pets 1 hit smooshed by something they can't learn to dodge wasn't fun in 1.0.3 and it isn't fun now.
But yea, I've almost got my 20K hp goal for act 2, then I'm gonna go through that finally. Then I'll try to reach 25k for act 3, and finally 30k by the time I face diablo. Hopefully, even if they did put a limit on damage capping (I hope it's just a bug) I will have enough to let my dogs fully cap most damages. Stacking health feels weird on this char :/
@Peter

So that does support the theory that Gargs have a passive regen that scales to their hp. Good to know.


Actually no it doesn't. :P

Force Armor will absorb a fixed amount of damage because it is capped to the Gargantuan's base health. If the Gargantuan's base life regeneration is scaled to their total health, the Gargantuan that I summoned when I had 20,016 life should regenerate faster.


Okay, so what you're saying is when you increased your hp, you estimated heal time versus a single hard hit that hit the force armor. In which case the higher hp value would leave more left-over for him, and he still healed to full in the same amount of time. I had misunderstood your comment earlier, and assumed you had let him get hit down to the same amount of health left on the bar (the approx. mili-meter) and examined the regen time from there.

I see the more precise figuring from the single-hit.
dunno if this has been addressed yet, but you can no longer re-summon restless giant to reset the internal cooldown of the enrage... i think i'll just stick with cleave.

benchmark goals:
1) succeed over double-champ/rare packs w/o pets or myself dieing
2) beat a3/4 without skipping packs
3) kill treasure goblin

still working on #3. i'm doing fine with #1/2 at 44k hp, 16k dps, 6.4k armor with enchantress, ~625-700 RA, 1.8k Lps, 900 Loh

RoT, slow burn, dogs/garg, slam dance, healing journey, ZH, JF, FL
Edited by Terihlon#1660 on 8/25/2012 7:17 PM PDT
@Kit & Peter

It would also explain why temporary buffs that drop incoming damage to within a particular damage range would be reduced by the Force Armor effect and allow dogs (gargs are a non-issue, due to their huge hp pool) to survive even named Mallet Lords.

As to your Force Armor mechanic question:

Let's assume you have 0 armor, 0 resists and 10k hp. Incoming hit is 20k.

Pre-nerf - All hits are automatically reduced to 35% of your max hp. Any hit will only be 3500. It takes 3 hits for you to die.
Post-nerf - 10k of the 20k hit is reduced by 35%, so the incoming hit is 3500 + 10,000. You get 1-shot.

This is the same reason why Force Armor Wizards who tried to do the Low HP, High Regen builds had to scramble to raise their hp/resists/armor post-nerf to mitigate enough to get the incoming hit AFTER force armor to still be below their max hp.

However:

Current 1.0.4 for dogs - Behavior suggests mechanics closer to the post-nerf force armor. It explains their comment that increasing your max hp scales "very well". The difference is that instead of being based off of BUFFED hp like on wizards, it's based on a flat 10k base hp (gargs are still a non issue).

The real question is, is basing the "Max incoming hit" on base hp really a boon to us or a bane? If there really is spillover if the hit is above 10k, then this means it actually works AGAINST is, since we need to drop the hit to below 10k through defenses (which can become very expensive, since some mobs can do over 70k per hit base), instead of below whatever max hp the dogs have.

Edit: minor wording.
Edited by Cervaux#1380 on 8/25/2012 9:02 PM PDT

Current 1.0.4 for dogs - Behavior suggests mechanics closer to the post-nerf force armor.


Yes it does. For the benefit of the others, let me explain here what the Wizard's Force Armor does. This is their spell's description.

"While Energy Armor is active, incoming attacks that would deal more than 35% of your maximum Life are reduced to deal 35% of your maximum Life instead."

As Cervaux said, before the nerf, Force Armor functions what the description says. No matter what monster the Wizard faces, he will only take 35% of the maximum Life. Even against Mallet Lords.

Then they nerfed it, and Force Armor now works this way:

damage < 35% of your hp, force armor does nohing.
35% < damage < 135%, you get hit for 35% of your hp.
135% < damage < 200%, force armor reduces the damage by 100% .
200% < damage, you die.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6369327857

Notice that there is now a threshold. If the damage is over 135% of the Wizard's Life, Force Armor doesn't cap it to 35%. It only reduces the damage by 100%.

E.g., Wizard has 10,000 health.
Incoming 2000 damage. Wizard takes 2000 damage.
Incoming 4000 damage. Wizard takes 3500 damage.
Incoming 10,000 damage. Wizard takes 3500 damage.
Incoming 13,500 damage. Wizard takes 3500 damage.
Incoming 14,000 damage. Wizard takes (14,000 - 10,000 = 4,000) damage.
Incoming 19,000 damage. Wizard takes (19,000 - 10,000 = 9,000) damage.
Incoming 20,000 damage. Wizard takes (20,000 - 10,000 = 10,000) damage. Wizard dies.

I'm not sure whether Cervaux's formula or the link is correct, but the point is, there is a threshold. Once you exceed the threshold, Force Armor uses some formula to reduce damage that has something to do with 35%.

So similarly, there must be a threshold for pet Force Armor as well, that has something to do with the base health. That is why the Gargantuan, who has 30,000 base health, can survive exploding goblins and mallet lords.

It cannot be simply because the gargantuan has more health that he survives. Zombie Dogs has roughly 1/3 of the gargantuan's life and if they get 1-shotted, the gargantuan must lose about 1/3 of his life. But against exploding goblins, he only lost 2mm of health.

The only conclusion is, force armor activated for the gargantuan, but not for the zombie dogs.
I've done some testing against a Risen in Inferno Act 1.
It has 33786 Health.
It has a damage range of 19k to 36k.
I put my zombie dogs to their deaths, noting the number of times Force Armor triggered for them.

Without using gear:
My life: 4931
Total Damage Reduction: ~10%
Risen will do 17k to 32k damage.
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*4931) = 11725.85

With only 10% damage reduction, if Zombie Dogs die in 1 hit, that means Force Armor did not trigger.
If Zombie Dogs take more than 1 hit to die with some life left, that means Force Armor capped the damage to 10,000.

Out of 51 Zombie Dogs, 19 of them took more than 1 hit to die.

19 of them triggered Force Armor.

Using ~50% total damage reduction gear:
My life: 4931
Total Damage Reduction: ~50%
Risen will do 8.5k to 16k damage
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*4931) = 11,725.85

With 50% damage reduction, Zombie Dogs should die in 3 hits if Force Armor activates both times.

Out of 51 Zombie Dogs, 50 of them took 3 hits to die. Only 1 did not, I assume a crit happened.

So it is safe to assume that with 50% damage reduction, Force Armor activates all the time.

Using ~40% total damage reduction gear:
Different Risen that did up to 35k damage
My life: 4931
Total Damage Reduction: ~40%
Risen will do 11.4k to 21k damage.
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*4931) = 11,725.85

All 51 Zombie Dogs took 2 hits to die. Varying life remaining after 1st hit (see below).

Using Vitality gear
My life: 20,016
Total Damage Reduction: ~10%
Risen will do 17k to 32k damage.
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*20,016) = 17,005.6

Out of 51 zombie dogs, 39 of them took more than 1 hit to die. BUT, that does not mean Force Armor caps the damage to 10,000 in all those instances.

I have noticed that some dogs have a bit less than half of their life after Force Armor. This is normal because the damage cap is 10,000, and they have 7005.6 life remaining.

But, the remaining life is not always at that number. Sometimes I see dogs with a few mm of life remaining. Sometimes I see they have slightly 10% life.

This proves that Force Armor doesn't always completely cap the damage to 10,000. In some cases if the number is too large, it merely deducts a fixed amount, which is what causes the varying remaining life of surviving dogs.

Summary:
17,000 to 32,000 damage taken: Force Armor activates 37.25% of the time.
8,500 to 16,000 damage taken: Force Armor activates 100% of the time (assuming no crits happened).
17,000 to 32,000 damage taken, 20,000 player health: Force Armor activates 76% of the time, but some of them do partial absorb.

What do you think is the formula folks?
Edited by Peter#1403 on 8/25/2012 11:52 PM PDT
I've done some testing against a Risen in Inferno Act 1.
It has 33786 Health.
It has a damage range of 19k to 36k.
I put my zombie dogs to their deaths, noting the number of times Force Armor triggered for them.

Without using gear:
My life: 4931
Total Damage Reduction: ~10%
Risen will do 17k to 32k damage.
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*4931) = 11725.85

With only 10% damage reduction, if Zombie Dogs die in 1 hit, that means Force Armor did not trigger.
If Zombie Dogs take more than 1 hit to die with some life left, that means Force Armor capped the damage to 10,000.

Out of 51 Zombie Dogs, 19 of them took more than 1 hit to die.

19 of them triggered Force Armor.

Using damage reduction gear:
My life: 4931
Total Damage Reduction: ~50%
Risen will do 8.5k to 16k damage
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*4931) = 11,725.85

With 50% damage reduction, Zombie Dogs should die in 3 hits if Force Armor activates both times.

Out of 51 Zombie Dogs, 50 of them took 3 hits to die. Only 1 did not, I assume a crit happened.

So it is safe to assume that with 50% damage reduction, Force Armor activates all the time.

Using Vitality gear
My life: 20,016
Total Damage Reduction: ~10%
Risen will do 17k to 32k damage.
Zombie Dog's life should be around 10,000 + (0.35*20,016) = 17,005.6

Out of 51 zombie dogs, 39 of them took more than 1 hit to die. BUT, that does not mean Force Armor caps the damage to 10,000 in all those instances.

I have noticed that some dogs have a bit less than half of their life after Force Armor. This is normal because the damage cap is 10,000, and they have 7005.6 life remaining.

But, the remaining life is not always at that number. Sometimes I see dogs with a few mm of life remaining. Sometimes I see they have slightly 10% life.

This proves that Force Armor doesn't always completely cap the damage to 10,000. In some cases if the number is too large, it merely deducts a fixed amount, which is what causes the varying remaining life of surviving dogs.

Summary:
17,000 to 32,000 damage taken: Force Armor activates 37.25% of the time.
8,500 to 16,000 damage taken: Force Armor activates 100% of the time (assuming no crits happened).
17,000 to 32,000 damage taken, 20,000 player health: Force Armor activates 76% of the time, but some of them do partial absorb.

What do you think is the formula folks?


maybe max absorb is something like 75% of dog life, does that seem to fit?
I'm pretty sure I've grasped both of your different possible explanations of how force armor is being applied, and while neither make me happy to hear, it's kinda making my head hurt and I wish a dev would fill a CM in and forward a message about how it's working out or if it's some sorta bug.
Honestly I never wanted to rely on stacking lots of health and damage reduction just to have beefy pets. And seeing the newfound limitations to this nifty force armor squish fix has got me somewhat worried.
So sounds like they use the base value of 10k to deal with the force armor but they're is still a threshhold based off the dogs max life. Which should mean more life is ultimately useful for increasing that threshhold? Still can't skip on resistance and armor but it's all still sounding like 'more is better'.

-edit-
I wouldn't be to worried. My general goal has been about 5000/500 armor/res with some solid 40-50k hp and, while I'm not really there in terms of the armor/all res (AR is near, Armor is lacking) they don't auto-die on 99% of the stuff out there. It's literally Mallet Lords or stuff pushing out billions of tiny hits.

I think, for the most part, its working good and most stuff that its failing against isn't to hard to deal with. Though the fast spinny dudes in A2 I can see being a complete !@#$%. Or where, been in A3 all week long at this point.
Edited by Adhin#1350 on 8/26/2012 12:12 AM PDT
Though i've yet to hit 60 on my WD, from what little testing or experiences i had while playing a WD from scratch after 1.0.4, the stat priority BafroomHumor provided seems to be the correct thing to follow/do.

Pets obviously and definitely survive much better than before the patch.

Its really up to your own playstyle or preference if you wana play it such that you boost their survivability to the point where they rarely die, or for them to just barely survive(meaning being able to tank for you for awhile) while you nuke the heck outa the mobs.

I personally prefer the 2nd, seeing as even with a more dps oriented gear set up, you will still have some resis, armor and vit.

That said, unless something hits me on the head to change my mind, i just can't seem to find a big enough advantage, or reason, for me to swap out my shield.

Still loving my 1h+shield =P

Edit :

Not forgetting that due to not having to find CC gears now, its much more feasible/easier to go full MF lol =P
Edited by NightCross#6873 on 8/26/2012 12:21 AM PDT
I'm pretty sure I've grasped both of your different possible explanations of how force armor is being applied, and while neither make me happy to hear, it's kinda making my head hurt and I wish a dev would fill a CM in and forward a message about how it's working out or if it's some sorta bug.
Honestly I never wanted to rely on stacking lots of health and damage reduction just to have beefy pets. And seeing the newfound limitations to this nifty force armor squish fix has got me somewhat worried.


Haha no need to worry. Monsters like the exploding goblins and Mallet Lords are only few exceptions, and the Gargantuan actually survives against them if dogs do not. Pets can survive the rest of the content. Just stack armor and resistances normally.

I am just testing this for research purposes. Why does the Gargantuan survive exploding goblins, but not dogs? What is the exact formula?
Well the garg has a lot more life. At least 50%, possibly 150% depending on blue post interpretation.

Sometimes my garg dies before dogs oddly enough. And if I can't dps them down in time, mallet lords will eventually destroy the garg.
Hello all,

The sole reason why I wanted to play this game is because I got to finally use pets, when witch doctors where just spamming poison darts I quit playing. I recently came back because I saw that I was finally able to effectively clear the content being the type of witch doctor I always wanted to be, a pet build witch doctor. Due to some extremely lucky legendary drops I'm now very geared and clear all content with ease as well as farm anything I want with ease no matter what type of effixes are on champion packs. My pets do not die to anything (except to those charging fantic things and Diablo fire)

Here are my stats:

Resistance
Physical: 956
Cold: 887
Fire: 887
Lightning: 969
Poison: 887
Arcane/Holy: 946

Life Regeneration: 1740
Total Hp: 28279
Armor (enchantress): 6429
Armor (w/o enchantress): 5591

Damage (enchantress): 27414
Damage (w/o enchantress): 26746

I went without the shield and with a mojo instead because the mojo simply added a huge dps boost while the shield only added a small amount of survivability. My build is the standard one that Peter uses with some minor exceptions. To be quite honest I could probably farm anything with any type of pet build. I like to have 4 dog passive because it increases the odds of mobs attacking my pets instead of me. I use the wall as an ability because one of my items reduces the cooldown, but anything could be put there. I don't use the "don't die because you made a stupid mistake" passive because I've found that I really didn't use it at all even when I was progressing to kill Diablo which I one shot with this pet build. I might die maybe 1-2 times of about 4 hours of farming and my deaths were just stupid errors on my part.

I farm the cow level with ease, pets do not die there. When I was first gearing up pets died really quickly.

Been loving playing the pet build so far, and been farming a lot... enough to get Paragon 9 lol.
Edited by Imoogi#1123 on 8/26/2012 12:53 AM PDT
Loved the patch! My WD fights even better than before now. I never gave up on him! Since the patch my dogs barely die now. (except when I blow them up) With that said I'm contemplating; should I focus more now on DPS, or res? Reasoning being my friends got a DH with 80k DPS. I wanna make sure I put him down when PVP comes out. Any advice will help so feels free to shoot ideas!
First of all, right now it's anyone's game what PVP will require in relation to builds and gear.

Second, it depends what you're trying to achieve; Higher personal dps or pet survivability? If it's the former, stack the usual dps stats (int, crit, ias, crit dam). If it's the latter, balance All res with armor, assuming any buffs you'll be using. To help pets survive, use life regen. To help you survive, use Life on Hit.
Assuming PvP gets implemented, its very likely that the more popular skills to use will be DoTs.

Pretty sure anyone that has experienced pvp before will know why =P

As for pets, how feasible they will be in a pvp scenario remains to be seen.

Will be interesting to try though.
I don't get it how someone can have 20k life with vitality gear? I don't have millions of money and I have 64,7k life with my mixed dps/vita gear.
That said my pets stay alive amazing well, and I can tank most bosses and champions. I use bears with passive mana boosts, but I was thinking about adding thorns for my pets. I also have a lot of liferegen, which should help, if I take thorns.

I thought that this patch was going to ruin the game for me, but now this is fun, when I never die :D
Do pets benefit by CC reduction and +% dmg against elite ?
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