Diablo® III

Paragon System

I agree with foots, especially considering that getting to plvl 30 would take a ton of time tthat you would be spending running inferno anyway
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The article says it will give stats, too. Will that lead to inferno getting too easy? (I have no inferno experience, but liked the idea of, once I get there, it is going to be *hard*, and no more overleveling ...)

Since you won't actually be over the level of the mobs (i.e. levels will stay the same in damage etc. formulas), I'm wondering how much difference it will make.


I had this concern too. I was worried when I read that we're gaining core stats per paragon level. That's 100 levels of gaining stats. That could be way too much.
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How many people do you honestly think (in hardcore) will even get paragon lvl 10? lol
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paragon lv10+, a fair amount i bet. people plvl and shiz and lots of nubs get to 60 hc currently

paragon lv20-30+ i hope far fewer and that time must be spent deeep in inferno

lv50+ will be reserved for only freak barbs and tons of time. maybe monks a little. it'll be really easy for a DH to mess up for a second or disconnect/crash way before you get the 43290q41723894u23 exp required
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I love this. This feels more and more like D2 all over again.

For the record, we will get paragon 100's. Dont know how many hours it will take, but we will. When I first hit 60 on SC, I thought clearing hell was impossible in HC because of how hard it was in SC the first time through. Now, hell is a cakewalk.

EDIT: And I think paragon 100 in HC will be a much bigger acheivement. In D2 HC, only lag/DCs were a real threat. In D3, monsters pose a real, serious threat. 100% of my deaths were honorable. All the more fun of paragon.
Edited by Twister#1181 on 8/20/2012 2:58 PM PDT
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08/20/2012 02:57 PMPosted by Twister
In D2 HC, only lag/DCs were a real threat.

Guess you never entered Baal's throne room, only be be mobbed immediately by either phanat dolls or phanat wraiths.

Was more commen to see 98's lose it to those packs, than lag/DC.
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08/20/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Bottle
I had this concern too. I was worried when I read that we're gaining core stats per paragon level. That's 100 levels of gaining stats. That could be way too much.


I just checked my barb, naked I have 187 str and 127 vt
with gear I have 1928 str and 1373 vit. Do you really think the extra base stats are going to make it "way too much"?
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08/20/2012 03:02 PMPosted by King
In D2 HC, only lag/DCs were a real threat.

Guess you never entered Baal's throne room, only be be mobbed immediately by either phanat dolls or phanat wraiths.

Was more commen to see 98's lose it to those packs, than lag/DC.


I'll concede I mostly played HC classic. But all the 99's first hit 99 in whatever that area was right outside of town
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If it's like D2 most people won't hit plevel 100. I never hit 99 in D2 because baal runs BORED THE !@#$ OUT OF ME. I couldn't stand going past level 95 (nor would I stoop to using a bot).

I don't think you realized just how long it took to legitimately get 99 in D2 (heaven forbid they mean classic D2, then NOBODY will hit Plevel 100)


Plenty of legits hit 99 in xpac, while only serveral hit lvl99 in D2 classic. There were a few lvl99 hammerdins in HCCL that were legit (not bots, but perhaps chicken mod/maphack).
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My point was about the 160 level cap allowing them to release new game content without bumping the level cap and making weapons people have spent 1B on (i63) worthless... I dont think you got passed line one though, right?


Im not sure you understand how weapons work. If, say, they increased the lvl cap instead of this bizarre pseudo lvl system, your ilvl63 weapon will be exactly the same in regards to usefulness if the cap was suddenly now lvl 70. It isnt like ilvl 70 items will begin dropping. All this owuld mean is that they would need to create some other strange system when the expansion does evneutally come out.

What makes more sense about not raising the lvl cap is to not have the player out lvl the monsters. This paragon lvls will make you more powerful, but not by all that much (i've decided) since you will still be lvl 60 and the monsters will still be lvl 63.

It has nothing to do with the ilvl 63 gear, which was your theory that you didnt think i read.

EDIT: and yes, stop being a giant P and beat Diablo on Inferno if you have the stats to do so.


Let me get this straight:

You're saying that if they raise the level cap, that my i63 weapon will hold just as much value then as it does now.

I'm going to go on a limb and say economics is not your forte?

Granted, my i63 will do the same damage then, as it does now. But you and I both know Diablo III was never about how much damage my weapon does... It's about how much value my weapon carries, and how fast it allows me to generate income.

If I spend (god willing) 1B on a SC 1H end game weapon... today... And a week from now they bring out i73 weapons, you're telling me that my weapon didn't just depreciate to peanuts?

That's like saying the current Legendaries are going to be worth anything more than Brimstone after the 1.04 Legendary buff.

These are some of the WORST arguments I've come up against.

My logic was fine. So far your rebuttal has been:

-Diablo is end game
-Bringing out i73 weapons wouldn't devalue your i63 weapon
and
-Anyone who has gotten slightly bored of DIablo isn't as Godly as you, because you are not done with the game.

You mean after your 50 combined hours of dead HC chars and 1 level 60 that has farmed maybe 2 runs you aren't sick of the game yet? Someone, get this guy an Ironman belt, he's in it for the long haul.

Some of us have 400,500,800 hours of gameplay. When you farm for 600 hours, and get rewarded Zipola for it, and 3/4 of the community has dealt with that and are long gone... ANY progression expanding update is MORE THAN welcome.

A community based on the AH (As much as we'd like it not to be, it is) requires supply and demand.

Yes, less players means less supply. But it also means, in Diablo anyways, that the demand EVENTUALLY dries up. Everyone reaching end game with no hopes of improvement is END GAME. Not killing Diablo.

As for me being a P and not beating Diablo? How bout taking your over-geared DH out of A1 and into A2 where it's gear belongs.

You've yet to touch on anything I said in a logical manor.

Saying that bringing out a new level cap wont devalue items that are currently God-Mode is ludicrous...

And as you said, Inferno is becoming easy-mode... So why would they bring out a level cap if there was no increased difficulty setting? They wouldn't.

So either:

1--> this progression expansion is to draw back players without devaluing every single item in the game

or

2--> This is just a random slap in the face to everyone like you who hasn't gotten bored after 80-100 hours of game play.

I understand you think you're attacking my points, but the reality is, your last 2 comebacks have basically been "nuh-uh!" with little to no points to back up yourself.
Edited by TheDutchMan#1443 on 8/20/2012 3:56 PM PDT
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08/20/2012 09:47 AMPosted by KingDave
Now all they need is a ladder to show how far people are and we got ourselves an addictive game.

There already is. Diabloprogress.com
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Dutch for president!
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08/20/2012 04:12 PMPosted by Pilsner
Dutch for president!


I try :)
Edited by TheDutchMan#1443 on 8/20/2012 4:40 PM PDT
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08/20/2012 04:02 PMPosted by epl23
Now all they need is a ladder to show how far people are and we got ourselves an addictive game.

There already is. Diabloprogress.com


Kind of. I go there a lot, but

-It only shows how far you got (and you could have leeched quests) so its a poor PvM ladder
-The "real" ladder ranking is hero-score which I like a lot
-Refresh is manual or very slow to pull data from blizz
-Not all characters are in database

Its a AWESOME start and I like the site a lot for e-peen measurement. But, its not "integrated" like a real ladder. If it reaches higher levels of integration/refresh speeds, it'll be sweet for character capability ratings
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I think this is a good change. The only issue they will have to deal with is how to handle Paragon levels when they (inevitably) increase the level cap in the expansion.

I would also hope for some sort of XP penalty for high paragon levels when doing low-level content. Act3 hell gives full XP at level 60 so it would be the fastest and safest way to grind Paragon Levels. Ideally, higher levels of Paragon will require higher level of content. That is, you could only gain XP from PL90+ in acts 3 and 4 inferno.
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I cant believe you spent 9/10th of your long winded argument, Dutch, on your misinterpretation of what i typed.

Yes, if the level cap was raised your current ilvl63 weapon would be fine. The level of items that drop is based off the monsters... and Inferno Act4 right now would still be only lvl63 monsters. YOU could be level 100 and it wouldnt matter.

There would be no ilvl 70 items dropping.. duh.

EDIT: Oh, and the other 1/10th of your argument is moot because i'm on the ZK quests in Act 2, thanks. Again, stop being the biggest vag in these HC forums and kill Belial. My DH is further than your godly monk according to Diablo3Progress which is just pathetic, for you.
Edited by Flip#1217 on 8/21/2012 9:24 AM PDT
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08/20/2012 01:00 PMPosted by krazlys
Take into example a PLvl_50 level 60. That's around 150 main stat points, according to the post. Based on D3's standardized characters, can you expect Blizzard to keep that in record. Meaning, would those characters keep this inherent stat? Being that PLvls won't exist, and you will start accruing experience to level 61 instead, how would this work?


Assuming an expansion comes out, I think people would be mad if they worked for a high plevel and a released expansion made it go away, so I think the most likely option is that you'd keep your plevel through the new content, just not being able to increase it until you hit the new cap.

Thinking about it made me wonder if they'd require beating inferno for any new content, or if they'd just require beating hell + being 60. (new players do inferno by over leveling the content vs. new players just skip inferno if they want).

I suppose they could let inferno (and only inferno) raise people's plevel if they're 60, but require the new level cap to raise plevel after dinging 61.

Of course, all of the above is even assuming an expansion.
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Just bumping this to point out my edit a few posts up. Dutch has a gigantic !@#$%^- with his 'top 12 monk' and my DH is farther along in Act 2 Inferno according to that Diablo3progress.com website. And he complained about the endgame getting boring, which he is nowhere near, because he is too scared. Dutch for president.

08/20/2012 04:12 PMPosted by Pilsner
Dutch for president!


..of the wussies, patch 1.04 is right up his alley, haha.
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Just bumping this to point out my edit a few posts up. Dutch has a gigantic !@#$%^- with his 'top 12 monk' and my DH is farther along in Act 2 Inferno according to that Diablo3progress.com website. And he complained about the endgame getting boring, which he is nowhere near, because he is too scared. Dutch for president.

Dutch for president!


..of the wussies, patch 1.04 is right up his alley, haha.


Easy cowboy. Wouldn't want you to get muted on forums and lose your ability to post useless, non-logical banter in an insulting manor!

Give me a minute to read a few of your posts and I'll get back to you.
Edited by TheDutchMan#1443 on 8/21/2012 9:35 AM PDT
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Alright, I'll give it a go. Think I got all the info I need here.

Dearest Flip,

I write this letter with a heavy heart.

You seem to have taken a liking to my opinion on future changes to the Diablo III gameplay, and I appreciate it, but your views seem to be somewhat.... nonsensical.

You suggest that them using the Plvl update as a method of prolonging the end-game is a moronic concept, and then proceeded to call me a "P" for not being Diablo yet, because, as you said, beating inferno Diablo in Diablo III is the end game (your exact words).

Let me correct you on this one in a way you can clearly understand. A barbarian with 3,000 DPS, 70,000 life, 500 resist all, and 8,000 armour can purchase a Waypoint to Diablo, and spend 30 minutes yawning while they slowly widdle him down with no risk of death. I'd hate to play a game where THAT is the end... Furthermore, I can hire AyR to kill Diablo for me for a nominal cost, minimal risk, and all the while I can watch T.V. out of the corner of my eye.

End game, for 99% of the players, is achieving a level of gear that allows me to comfortably farm deep into inferno, unlocking better plans and more frequent high-quality loot, which I then sell on the AH and use the funds to either: 1- Cashout and take the real money profits, or, 2- invest back into the game to progress my gear EVEN further.

-------------------------------

Now, onto your post that mocked my suggestion of bringing out a new level cap ruining the economy.

The economy, as it stands, has a very simple build.

HC: leveling gear with top rolls are saught after for 100-200k per slot, item reduced weapons with high DPS rolls are 1M-10M, GOOD i61/62/63 gear can span from 5-25M per slot, and END GAME gear is 100M+.

SC: Leveling gear is worthless, item reduced gear is worthless, good gear is worthless, end game gear is sellable.

So, keeping this in mind, I can go to the AH today and purchase myself a pretty 1H weapon with 1200 DPS and high LoH + Crit for 1.2B IGG. Fantastic. I'm the envy of my friends.

uh oh, Blizzard is releasing level 75 cap!

Your theory as to why this wouldn't devalue my 1.2B weapon is: There are no i75 drops in the game, stoopid!!

Right, because bBlizzard is going to increase the level cap, allowing for difficulty expansion, and not improve the gear. So I can level to 75 for months for the privilage of continuing to use my i63 weapons.

You're a brilliant one.

Plvls allow for us to gain character based power, without nuking the economy. Simple. Logical. Undenyable.

----------------------------

As for the reason I discuessed my top 12 monk, I thought I made that VERY clear. gearing up my monk to rank higher amoungst other monks is MUCH more end game than killing a boss that requires half the gear I currently own
-----------------------------
As for being "further along" in A2 than me? You've made it quite clear that Diablo (the boss) is end game. By that logic, I've killed Belial, you haven't. I'm closer to end game. There, used your own perfect logic against you.

---------------------------

Sincerly,
Dutch
PS - As for you continuously flinging insults my way like the 14 year old puberty rittled teen you are? Check the calendar! OMGosh, almost time for grade 10.
Edited by TheDutchMan#1443 on 8/21/2012 10:00 AM PDT
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