Diablo® III

Leoric's Signet farming stories

There is more reported evidence of 5th-slot NV rare being Legendary capable than there is for any of this Signet stuff. We're taking people at their words for extremely incomplete data (what exact mob, for example, dropped the ring each person found, and we don't even know how loot tables work and what order if any drops are assigned) on signet drops.
wtf? As people from the other thread that stayed on and came over here can tell you, I've done the legwork in finding the item, finding the run, and people who have done my run and even my extended run, can attest that they've gotten the ring successfully. Even Chaos's theory on Royal Audience, although he's never gotten the ring there himself, the ring has dropped for others. This was all based on concepts that were posted on the first thread.

I've said many times it's based on the base item and once that base item is rolled legendary, it's "upgraded" to the leorics signet. If the ring is a higher lvl ring like those found in VOA, that one upgrades to Manald's and that was proven TRUE time and time again. Technically, the signet data is legit, there's nothing else to know about them.
Here, I wasted plenty of time searching all over then found the perfect example

Well you know you can't really blame me if you keep talking about this video and you don't produce one it's like wtf ya know? Nobody would take you seriously if you said you had one and you didn't. But now you found the video, so nice job, thx for that.
Edited by speedforce#1637 on 8/31/2012 9:54 PM PDT
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Tried farming this on my Barb and I got bored pretty quick. Didn't get any legendary after about 3 hours of play time. MF was at 320% with NV.

So I decided to use my low level Monk and got to Act 2. First elite pack on the oasis dropped a legendary boots. It's called "The Crudest Boots" and it is a level 3 item. >.<

So yeah, that's my story.
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08/31/2012 07:04 PMPosted by xXxGUZxXx
i been doing voa since last night i got over 8 legendarys so i dunno wtf to do my buddy got his in the sewer after like 4 hrs
logic dictates if he got his in the sewer than you start running sewer too. People love this Vault so much that no matter how many times people say to stop running vault, you people still keep running vault, so yeah, you're not going to get nice answers when we have to keep saying STOP RUNNING VAULT
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i been doing voa since last night i got over 8 legendarys so i dunno wtf to do my buddy got his in the sewer after like 4 hrs
logic dictates if he got his in the sewer than you start running sewer too. People love this Vault so much that no matter how many times people say to stop running vault, you people still keep running vault, so yeah, you're not going to get nice answers when we have to keep saying STOP RUNNING VAULT
I know and those same people come back and say...got a Manald... so close. LOL.
Edited by ChaosLeech#1406 on 8/31/2012 10:25 PM PDT
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08/31/2012 09:48 PMPosted by speedforce
There is more reported evidence of 5th-slot NV rare being Legendary capable than there is for any of this Signet stuff. We're taking people at their words for extremely incomplete data (what exact mob, for example, dropped the ring each person found, and we don't even know how loot tables work and what order if any drops are assigned) on signet drops.
wtf? As people from the other thread that stayed on and came over here can tell you, I've done the legwork in finding the item, finding the run, and people who have done my run and even my extended run, can attest that they've gotten the ring successfully. Even Chaos's theory on Royal Audience, although he's never gotten the ring there himself, the ring has dropped for others. This was all based on concepts that were posted on the first thread.

I've said many times it's based on the base item and once that base item is rolled legendary, it's "upgraded" to the leorics signet. If the ring is a higher lvl ring like those found in VOA, that one upgrades to Manald's and that was proven TRUE time and time again. Technically, the signet data is legit, there's nothing else to know about them.
Here, I wasted plenty of time searching all over then found the perfect example

Well you know you can't really blame me if you keep talking about this video and you don't produce one it's like wtf ya know? Nobody would take you seriously if you said you had one and you didn't. But now you found the video, so nice job, thx for that.


Like I said, even without the video I have now provided, there is more evidence in support of 5-NV rare being able to roll Legendary than there is for just about anything we know about Signet drops outside of that they can drop in audience, sewers, and in oasis.

The only evidence we have of such information is incomplete testimonials (missing critical information, chiefly what mob).

The only hard evidence we have is a video of a pre-1.0.4 signet dropping from a snake in the Wretched Pit (adria), which according to d3db are actually level 19, not level 17. So, there's that, which kind of throws a wrench in this whole "level 17 mobs" bit.

As for "I've said many times it's based on the base item and once that base item is rolled legendary, it's "upgraded" to the leorics signet.", you have no evidence to support this, and I highly doubt you could actually find any evidence. The only thing that could show this one way or another is a statement from Blizzard accompanied by some sort of loot table / beastiary drop tables or other such information.

Moving on to "If the ring is a higher lvl ring like those found in VOA, that one upgrades to Manald's and that was proven TRUE time and time again.", as with the above, you cannot prove this true. You are doing one of two things here: Either as above you are theorizing on loot drop mechanics that you cannot prove, or you are simply making an argument that these slightly higher level mobs are incapable of dropping this slightly lower level Legendary, which you also could not diffinitively prove. You could only provide mountains of data to support that theory, and what we have so far are not mountains of data but rather an extremely small sample size of incomplete data. You would be on track to at least reliably discount VoA as a drop location if you had a sample size of a least a hundred that included both location *and* monster type and absolutely none of the finds came from there or from any monsters of the same monster class or level. Which you don't.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 8/31/2012 10:28 PM PDT
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What we are operating on here are not facts, but rather hunches. The best piece of information we have to go on is that they can drop off of level 17 snakes as reported pretty much only by you (and potentially level 19 snakes as per the outdated video). From this we can formulate some hypotheses, but we have nowhere near any sufficient data to confirm them:

1) Signet is capable to drop from snakes because snakes have that item in their loot tables. We do not know if mob types have specific loot tables, and we won't know until someone somewhere has compiled a virtual mountain of data (akin to something like WoWhead, which without mods is unlikely to happen in D3), or until Blizzard tell us.

2) Signet is capable to drop from level 17 mobs. Signet is potentially capable of dropping from level 19 mobs as per the video. Signet is potentially capable of dropping from level 18 mobs as they fall in between level 17 and level 19 mobs. We do not know the exact mechanics of item drops and how mob level factors in to item level, and we probably won't know until Blizzard tells us.

I'm not trying to criticize you, but I find it irritating that you're unable to accept such sound and complete theorycrafted conclusions (5-stack NV rare can roll Legendary) based on countless user submitted data unless you actually see one of the raw video observations from which the data was gathered, but expect nothing short of blind acceptance of your own hunches based on an insufficient sample size of incomplete user submitted data without a shred of hard evidence as proof to even support any of the hunches.
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Case in point!

Just found a 26% signet, FINALLY, with a 3 stack NV inside The Ruins Level 1 of the Stinging Winds (west, before Khasim Outpost), off of a Stinging Swarm mob, reported as level 18 by d3db. Normal mob (not champ/elite), 304% total MF at time of drop inclusive of 3-stack (<--- this is what complete data looks like). This is my ninth legendary (first ring) doing this targetted farm.

For those interested, my run is pretty comprehensive and starts with the Lieutenant Vachem checkpoint of the Road to Alcarnus quest, runs through the black canyon mines for a quick 2-3 stacks of NV, then through Stinging Winds (west) to check for Ruins and do the center map tile event, then Khasim Outpost, Stinging Winds (east) to check for Ruins again and also do the center map tile event, Road to Alcarnus, Alcarnus, Audience, Sewers, Cistern, and finally Oasis (including both Tomb side dungeons and the one cave full of the ghost mobs, if any of those spawn.)

Edit: Knowing this, I would be comfortable now adding The Forgotten Ruins at the end of my route, since the skeletal sentries (archers) and bone warriors inside are level 18, and there are many. I'm also pretty comfortable with this run because it is less monotonous and runs pretty much the full gambit of level 17 *and* level 18 mobs. :D

I'd also like to drive home the value of checking for The Ruins in the Stinging Winds. It is entirely snakes (17) and locusts (18). You can ignore the pillar spider spawns (22). :D :D
Edited by Mith#1762 on 8/31/2012 11:13 PM PDT
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Mith how many hours did you farm your particular route? And how many champ packs per run on average would you say that can drop this ring?

I've been doing this route to try and get as much snake per run ratio:
5 stack nv VOA
Sewers
South wall of oasis which spawns - Fishermans cellar, swampy cellar
all the way up to Aqueduct then to the last north western grid which can spawn either checkpoint or one of the tombs. While following the south wall i can sometimes get the other Large tomb which has a snake outside and two ring level mobs inside. Run takes less then 10 minutes.

I've done this for about 10 hours, also farmed 2 other routes for 15 hours and I've been unsuccessful.

I've gotten 9 Legendaries and 10 rare ring drops :(

EDIT: Actually based on what you've said about monster level, I'm going to record some data per run until I get the ring.
Edited by itstylerj#6966 on 8/31/2012 11:39 PM PDT
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Edit: After settling on this particular run, I'd say I've done about twenty full runs. They're pretty comprehensive and can take some time if I'm distracted, but can go pretty fast if I'm focused. 30 minutes or less, which is nice because that's long enough to not feel ridiculously monotonous.

Well I start in black canyon mines because it takes about 30 seconds to get 2-3 stacks of NV even though those packs are likely out of range of the signet.

Potentially 2 champ packs in Stinging Winds West (only the blue "Dune Stinger" bees are lvl 17)
Maybe a half dozen or more champ packs, all of the appropriate level, inside The Ruins dungeon in one of the Stinging Winds (west or east, random spawn).
2 packs in Alcarnus.
Maghda is lvl 18.
~2 packs in Sewers
~2 packs in Cistern
~2-3 packs in Oasis (only snakes and flying birds appear to be appropriate)
~2-3 packs in any of the Oasis Tombs (Khan Dakab or the other one) or the Mysterious*(?) Cave (the one that spawns from the scared guy, containing the ghost mobs).
~2-3 packs in Forgotten Ruins (skeletal archers and bone warriors being appropriate)

By the time you're through Stinging Winds, which is near the start of the run, you should be at 5 stacks. Then you're on your way through pretty much the rest of the first and then the second thirds of the act, which can get you champions of the appropriate level and which contains pretty much the entirety of the spread of level 17 and 18 mobs, while you are 5-stacked.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 8/31/2012 11:49 PM PDT
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Talk about sour.

You don't know the level range or, if the case, the specific loot in the loot tables of the mobs we've all been farming.

You don't know the base item of the Signet. It is ilvl 17, req level 14. We've seen req level 11, 13, 16, and 18 rings quite often in these areas. I'm not even sure we know the ilvls of those rings, perhaps it's ilvl = 1+ reqlvl, but I don't know for sure. Leoric's is ilvl 14. Manald is ilvl 20. You don't know which base items go to which legendary rings. You don't know if it takes a lower ilvl and bumps it up, or a higher ilvl and bumps it down.

It's entirely possible that a required level 16 ring is ilvl 17, and then that this is the base item for the Signet (with the Signet being a Legendary and not following the same ilvl = req lvl rules, because it is ilvl 17 and reqlvl 14). Perhaps not. I don't know. A Manald is ilvl20, which means its base item would be an ilvl 20 ring ?= req lvl 19 ring, which don't exist. I don't have any data to support this. Neither do you. Until you have piles and piles of data that include monster level, ilevels of rings they drop, and exact mob type and monster level of confirmed signet drops to compare to, you can't draw any solid conclusions.

If after a hundred or so signet drops you came back with a spreadsheet that showed monsters of a specific level *only* drop one specific ring level, and that *only* those monsters drop the Signet, then you'd have something. If data showed that mobs were capable of dropping a range of rings (which I suppose is entirely possible, I myself haven't been tracking ring drop data), you'd have to have data covering a wider range of mobs and a wider range of ring drops, and isolate the supposed reqlvl13 ring as the base item.

P.S. I didn't say *I* had video evidence. I said video evidence existed, because it is the foundation for pretty much every piece of data collected in the extensive MF research to which I have referred you. And it does exist, it just doesn't exist in a particularly publicly accessible manner. I did you a huge courtesy finding a video that can be used as hard evidence to the theory you were stubbornly skeptical of. I cannot say that you have any hard evidence to provide for anything you're trying to tell us about Signet drops, Mr. Legendary Hunter.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 9/1/2012 9:52 AM PDT
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myth, speed, stop fighting....arguments are welcome though. Personally i got so confused about what you fought about that i've lost what you were talking about.
Getting back on point, i'll try the latest run that Myth ran to get his ring.
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myth, speed, stop fighting....arguments are welcome though. Personally i got so confused about what you fought about that i've lost what you were talking about.
Getting back on point, i'll try the latest run that Myth ran to get his ring.
He kept talking about how NV can drop legendary. Okay cool. He said he had a video. I asked for said video. He said he didn't have it, but referred me to a thread. I said, okay, I don't want to read 39 pages, just like you dont want to read 39 pages, so wheres the video? He posted a video. Cool.

Then he starts bashing all the work I've done on the ring, questioning everything. He didn't understand how legendary drops worked and he was trying to get me to provide impossible numbers, he knew was impossible, so it turned into a situation of he's right, and I'm wrong.

All these stupid forum mindgames, I already know how it goes down and I know the kinds of people that go on them. He's no different than a lot of people who forces the burden of proof on you when the OP wasn't subject to it in the first place.

I think a lot of you will agree that I've done a lot of work here, and the things I recommend are successful. I've explained the way things work to the best of my ability and that's what led to a few of us optimizing our runs. We don't need people like Mith coming in here and shaking things up without properly understanding what's going on. It's like he's late to the party but he acts like he runs the party.
Edited by speedforce#1637 on 9/1/2012 1:32 AM PDT
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08/30/2012 09:09 AMPosted by speedforce
Okay so heres a theory. The more MF you have, the worse it is for finding legendaries. The reason is that MF increases your chances for a magic and rare item, however it doesn't increase the legendary chances in the same proportion that it does for magic/rares. Therefore the more MF you get, the worse chances you have at getting a legendary.

So every dropped item rolls to see if its legendary first. If it misses, it rolls for 6 stat and so on.
So your blue drops are items that failed the rolls for better quality.
Well here's the problem, the more MF you have, the more the bonus affects it's quality roll, causing it to fail the legendary check.


I just felt like quoting this for posterity from the guy who wants to tell me he knows all about MF.

Goodnight everyone else and good luck with your farming :D
Edited by Mith#1762 on 9/1/2012 1:35 AM PDT
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so with all this bickering between these 2 kids for the last 5 pages, im confused. is it confirmed if having magic find on these runs helps or hurts you?
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09/01/2012 02:44 AMPosted by Revan
so with all this bickering between these 2 kids for the last 5 pages, im confused. is it confirmed if having magic find on these runs helps or hurts you?


It helps you. Guaranteed. 100%.
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TL:DR Answer - Spam snakes inbetween where you fight belial and the entrance to the sewers or do a long run? Ive had about 5hrs doing both to no avail.
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Posts: 42
@Revan: It helps.

@Speedforce & Mith: just wana say, I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting into Leoric's Signet run analysis, as well as your willingness to share your knowledge with the community. So awesome!

**handshake**
...

**transition into one-armed bro-hug**
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